Biden

[Mavric]

That seems to describe Biden's performance the other night pretty well.

And Romney's in the first debate.

Not saying it was right either but some of that goes on by basically everyone in many debates. Pretty sure the amount that went on were not really comparable.

[huskerXman]

it would be wise for people to stand up to both parties and say NO MORE! Otherwise this country is done, mark it down. We can't sustain this kind of behavior much longer. They (both sides) will destroy this country (doing a pretty damn good job of it now).

 

Good thing this is exactly what I've been saying this entire election then, huh?

 

 

Meant to edit my post to say it wasn't direct at you, more to those that play sides. They are only helping to destroy this country.

[sd'sker]

I don't really care about decorum here. Biden presented himself as a highly capable, skilled vice president, and Paul Ryan came off as a talking point speech-maker.

 

This is coming from someone who has considered the race a fair dead heat in recent weeks and has no favoritism towards any party.

 

That's fair. I just didn't get the highly capable and skilled VP angle from that debate at all. I was somewhat impressed that he seemed to know a little bit about some of the foreign policy matters. If I recall that was supposed to be his strong suit and was one of the major reasons Obama originally tabbed him as his running mate. In retrospect, I guess that could be construed as capable. The skilled part must be when he was perpetuating the administrations lies about not receiving requests for additional security at the Libyan embassy.

[citation needed]

[and apostrophe]

[citation still needed]

[Mavric]

I don't really care about decorum here. Biden presented himself as a highly capable, skilled vice president, and Paul Ryan came off as a talking point speech-maker.

 

This is coming from someone who has considered the race a fair dead heat in recent weeks and has no favoritism towards any party.

 

That's fair. I just didn't get the highly capable and skilled VP angle from that debate at all. I was somewhat impressed that he seemed to know a little bit about some of the foreign policy matters. If I recall that was supposed to be his strong suit and was one of the major reasons Obama originally tabbed him as his running mate. In retrospect, I guess that could be construed as capable. The skilled part must be when he was perpetuating the administrations lies about not receiving requests for additional security at the Libyan embassy.

[citation needed]

[and apostrophe]

[citation still needed]

I think it's pretty plain by now that the requests went to the state department and were denied. Supposedly they didn't get to the White House. So basically Biden was just throwing the State Department under the bus.

[carlfense]

Yeah, I agree. Once we have accepted the threshold of parsing as what the meaning of "is" is, it's going to be difficult for opposing viewpoints to agree on the meaning of lying.

Shouldn't be too hard. Show that he was talking specifically about the two wars . . . and then show that he said that he voted against them.

 

Not nearly as ridiculous as arguing the meaning of "is."

You mean where he didn't object to the Military Force against Iraq once and voted for it once and voted for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq and Afghanistan War Funding three times?

Well done. Now you're halfway there. Keep going . . .

[Mavric]

Yeah, I agree. Once we have accepted the threshold of parsing as what the meaning of "is" is, it's going to be difficult for opposing viewpoints to agree on the meaning of lying.

Shouldn't be too hard. Show that he was talking specifically about the two wars . . . and then show that he said that he voted against them.

 

Not nearly as ridiculous as arguing the meaning of "is."

You mean where he didn't object to the Military Force against Iraq once and voted for it once and voted for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq and Afghanistan War Funding three times?

Well done. Now you're halfway there. Keep going . . .

So no one has to show he voted against it but I have to show he voted for it? Guess that shouldn't be so surprising.

 

Authorization for Use of Military Force (9/14/01) - Passed by Unanimous Consent, i.e., no one objected

Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (10/11/02) - Voted in Favor

Emergency Appropriations for Iraq and Afghanistan (10/17/03) - Voted in Favor

Funding for Operations in Iraq and Afghanistan (5/22/08) - Voted in Favor of and sponsored the bill

Iraq and Afghanistan War Funding ... (6/26/08) - Voted in Favor

 

So far, I haven't actually found any time he voted against war funding.

[zoogs]

I think it's pretty plain by now that the requests went to the state department and were denied. Supposedly they didn't get to the White House. So basically Biden was just throwing the State Department under the bus.

 

If the administration is being personally criticized for not dealing with information they didn't have, I don't see how this answer is inappropriate. What would a Romney administration have done differently? Plenty of information doesn't find its way up the chain of command properly.

[carlfense]

So no one has to show he voted against it but I have to show he voted for it? Guess that shouldn't be so surprising.

No . . . you're still missing half of the equation.

 

You've got the war votes down. Well done. I don't think that anyone disputed those.

[carlfense]

If the administration is being personally criticized for not dealing with information they didn't have, I don't see how this answer is inappropriate. What would a Romney administration have done differently? Plenty of information doesn't find its way up the chain of command properly.

That's politics.

 

Half of the country will criticize Bush for ignoring 9/11 warnings and going to war on bad intel. Half will defend him.

 

Half of the country will criticize Obama for not preventing the murder of an ambassador. Half will defend him.

 

Plenty of blame to spread around . . . but since we're in election season it's advantageous to try to put it all on Obama. It is what it is. At least silly season is almost over.

[Ziggy]

9/11 first year of Bush's presidency, Libya was in Obama's 4th. Difference is timing. Was plenty missed for both yep, but Obama created the situation in Libya by helping overthrow the dictator in Libya and security should have been premium on the anniversary of 9/11.

[carlfense]

9/11 first year of Bush's presidency, Libya was in Obama's 4th.

I'm sure that you don't blame Obama for the economic collapse in the first days of his presidency, right? Because that would be hypocritical.

[Ziggy]

Nice assumption, JA. Your come backs are ridiculous to put it mildly. Of course I didn't blame Barrack for the economy on day 1, 2, 3 or 365. But I do blame him in year 3 and 4 for the slow recovery. Maybe instead of attacking the poster or fox news, you should debate the facts. A lot of people are to blame in almost any major political situation that is a negative. Sadly the person at top most generally receives most of the backlash/blame, because they are supposed to be the leader of the "team" if you will.

[carlfense]

Of course I didn't blame Barrack for the economy on day 1, 2, 3 or 365. But I do blame him in year 3 and 4 for the slow recovery.

So how far does your year one exemption extend? Is there anything in the first year that a president is responsible for?

 

Maybe instead of attacking the poster or fox news, you should debate the facts.

Ahem.

Nice assumption, JA. Your come backs are ridiculous to put it mildly.

This is awkward . . . JA must be a term of endearment.

 

It's right within the same post . . . apparently I jumped the gun with the comment about hypocrisy. That, or I was able to very accurately predict the near future.

[Mavric]

So no one has to show he voted against it but I have to show he voted for it? Guess that shouldn't be so surprising.

No . . . you're still missing half of the equation.

 

You've got the war votes down. Well done. I don't think that anyone disputed those.

So you're trying to say that Biden didn't say he voted against them?

 

[biden] And by the way, they talk about this Great Recession if it fell out of the sky, like, oh my goodness, where did it come from? It came from this man voting to put two wars in a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion- dollar tax cut for a — very wealthy. I was there. I voted against him. I said, no, we can't afford that. And now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with a concern about the debt that they created —

Debate Transcript

[carlfense]

So you're trying to say that Biden didn't say he voted against them?

 

[biden] And by the way, they talk about this Great Recession if it fell out of the sky, like, oh my goodness, where did it come from? It came from this man voting to put two wars in a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion- dollar tax cut for a — very wealthy. I was there. I voted against him. I said, no, we can't afford that. And now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with a concern about the debt that they created —

Debate Transcript

^^^^^

 

(Not sure if you're really not following or if you're just acting the part. )