Biden

[Comish]

I think it's pretty plain by now that the requests went to the state department and were denied. Supposedly they didn't get to the White House. So basically Biden was just throwing the State Department under the bus.

 

If the administration is being personally criticized for not dealing with information they didn't have, I don't see how this answer is inappropriate. What would a Romney administration have done differently? Plenty of information doesn't find its way up the chain of command properly.

You make a valid point about the administration not being fully briefed on every, single issue because the sheer volume renders it impossible. But, given the fact that the 9/11 anniversary was imminent and the Ambassador evidently had asked repeatedly for more security amid a deteriorating regional situation, it seems difficult to understand why they wouldn’t be read in on such a potential situation. Then when you factor in the ever-changing story lines after the fact on what actually happened and the subsequent blaming of everyone else, it would seem to weaken any plausibility of denial………..don’t you think?

[Ziggy]

Of course I didn't blame Barrack for the economy on day 1, 2, 3 or 365. But I do blame him in year 3 and 4 for the slow recovery.

So how far does your year one exemption extend? Is there anything in the first year that a president is responsible for?

 

Maybe instead of attacking the poster or fox news, you should debate the facts.

Ahem.

Nice assumption, JA. Your come backs are ridiculous to put it mildly.

This is awkward . . . JA must be a term of endearment.

 

It's right within the same post . . . apparently I jumped the gun with the comment about hypocrisy. That, or I was able to very accurately predict the near future.

 

I don't know why I reply to you anymore. But here it goes again. The first year is still influenced a lot by the previous administrations actions. Obama didn't create the economic downturn of 2008, neither did Bush create the environment that allowed 9/11 to happen. But it is how they respond to those situations that should be judged. I personally think if BO pushed to fix the economy before getting to his health care changes, he probably would still have a Democrat controlled congress.

 

Lastly, I responded to your assumption with a similar response. Your condescension is irritating to put it lightly, and your holier that thou are is ridiculous. If you think I wont call you out when you call me a hypocrite that is not gonna happen. I made a statement that was truthful, you replied in one sentence with an assumption and then played the hypocrite card. Bring some facts and not assumptions and attacks on me and I will respond in kind. Facts vs facts, personal attacks get called out.

[Mavric]

So you're trying to say that Biden didn't say he voted against them?

 

[biden] And by the way, they talk about this Great Recession if it fell out of the sky, like, oh my goodness, where did it come from? It came from this man voting to put two wars in a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion- dollar tax cut for a — very wealthy. I was there. I voted against him. I said, no, we can't afford that. And now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with a concern about the debt that they created —

Debate Transcript

^^^^^

 

(Not sure if you're really not following or if you're just acting the part. )

No. Apparently I have no idea what you're talking about. It started with you saying show he said he voted against the wars and show he did. I think I've done both.

 

What would you like to argue now?

[carlfense]

The first year is still influenced a lot by the previous administrations actions. Obama didn't create the economic downturn of 2008, neither did Bush create the environment that allowed 9/11 to happen. But it is how they respond to those situations that should be judged. I personally think if BO pushed to fix the economy before getting to his health care changes, he probably would still have a Democrat controlled congress.

They should be judged on more than their response to events. If there is an opportunity missed to prevent a catastrophe and it's missed, they should be held responsible regardless of party affiliation.

 

Lastly, I responded to your assumption with a similar response. Your condescension is irritating to put it lightly, and your holier that thou are is ridiculous. If you think I wont call you out when you call me a hypocrite that is not gonna happen. I made a statement that was truthful, you replied in one sentence with an assumption and then played the hypocrite card. Bring some facts and not assumptions and attacks on me and I will respond in kind. Facts vs facts, personal attacks get called out.

No . . . the hypocrisy is in complaining about personal attacks when engaging in the same.

[sd'sker]

I don't know why I reply to you anymore. But here it goes again. The first year is still influenced a lot by the previous administrations actions. Obama didn't create the economic downturn of 2008, neither did Bush create the environment that allowed 9/11 to happen. But it is how they respond to those situations that should be judged. I personally think if BO pushed to fix the economy before getting to his health care changes, he probably would still have a Democrat controlled congress.

what about the stimulus? what about his jobs act? oh, yeah. how did he not push to fix the economy and what more should he have done to help the economy?

 

also, this is interesting:

Five myths about Obama’s stimulus

[carlfense]

No. Apparently I have no idea what you're talking about. It started with you saying show he said he voted against the wars and show he did. I think I've done both.

 

What would you like to argue now?

No change to the argument. I'll even post it again for you and underline the portion that you are missing:

 

 

Shouldn't be too hard. Show that he was talking specifically about the two wars . . . and then show that he said that he voted against them.

Here's your transcript. Fire away.

 

[biden] And by the way, they talk about this Great Recession if it fell out of the sky, like, oh my goodness, where did it come from? It came from this man voting to put two wars in a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion- dollar tax cut for a — very wealthy. I was there. I voted against him. I said, no, we can't afford that. And now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with a concern about the debt that they created —

Debate Transcript

 

 

[carlfense]

I don't know why I reply to you anymore. But here it goes again. The first year is still influenced a lot by the previous administrations actions. Obama didn't create the economic downturn of 2008, neither did Bush create the environment that allowed 9/11 to happen. But it is how they respond to those situations that should be judged. I personally think if BO pushed to fix the economy before getting to his health care changes, he probably would still have a Democrat controlled congress.

what about the stimulus? what about his jobs act? oh, yeah. how did he not push to fix the economy and what more should he have done to help the economy?

 

also, this is interesting:

Five myths about Obama’s stimulus

Get your facts out of here.

[Ziggy]

Whatever carl your always right I am so sorry I offended your poor little heart.

 

And here "It came from this man voting to put two wars"

[Ziggy]

I don't know why I reply to you anymore. But here it goes again. The first year is still influenced a lot by the previous administrations actions. Obama didn't create the economic downturn of 2008, neither did Bush create the environment that allowed 9/11 to happen. But it is how they respond to those situations that should be judged. I personally think if BO pushed to fix the economy before getting to his health care changes, he probably would still have a Democrat controlled congress.

what about the stimulus? what about his jobs act? oh, yeah. how did he not push to fix the economy and what more should he have done to help the economy?

 

also, this is interesting:

Five myths about Obama’s stimulus

Get your facts out of here.

 

None of those myths cover what I was saying.

[sd'sker]

I don't know why I reply to you anymore. But here it goes again. The first year is still influenced a lot by the previous administrations actions. Obama didn't create the economic downturn of 2008, neither did Bush create the environment that allowed 9/11 to happen. But it is how they respond to those situations that should be judged. I personally think if BO pushed to fix the economy before getting to his health care changes, he probably would still have a Democrat controlled congress.

what about the stimulus? what about his jobs act? oh, yeah. how did he not push to fix the economy and what more should he have done to help the economy?

 

also, this is interesting:

Five myths about Obama’s stimulus

Get your facts out of here.

 

None of those myths cover what I was saying.

i never said they did, i just said it was interesting. still wondering what more you thought obama should do to fix the economy.

[Ziggy]

That was more toward Carl not you, but I think Obama should have made sure the economy was heading in the right direction before pushing so hard for the healthcare legislation. I know some of the problem is perception, because a lot was happening all at the same time. But it just didn't seem like his priority was the economy, but healthcare instead.

[sd'sker]

That was more toward Carl not you, but I think Obama should have made sure the economy was heading in the right direction before pushing so hard for the healthcare legislation. I know some of the problem is perception, because a lot was happening all at the same time. But it just didn't seem like his priority was the economy, but healthcare instead.

the first thing he did was pass his stimulus (with a lot of compromises so republicans would vote on it). healthcare costs have a huge affect on our economy i do not understand how you can separate the two. finally, are you saying you merely did not like, what, exactly, how you perceived him and his priorities?

[carlfense]

<snip> I personally think if BO pushed to fix the economy before getting to his health care changes<snip>

what about the stimulus? <snip>

Get your facts out of here.

 

None of those myths cover what I was saying.

I wasn't referring to the myths.

http://www.recovery.gov/About/Pages/The_Act.aspx

 

 

[sd'sker]

I think it's pretty plain by now that the requests went to the state department and were denied. Supposedly they didn't get to the White House. So basically Biden was just throwing the State Department under the bus.

not sure about this, but then there is this:

 

The Washington Post’s Dana Milbank breaks it all down:

For fiscal 2013, the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department’s Worldwide Security Protection program —

well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration

. House Republicans cut the administration’s request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012. (Negotiations with the Democrat-controlled Senate restored about $88 million of the administration’s request.) Last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans’ proposed cuts to her department would be “detrimental to America’s national security” — a charge Republicans rejected.

[GOP vice presidential nominee Paul] Ryan, [Rep. Darrell] Issa and other House Republicans voted for an amendment in 2009 to cut $1.2 billion from State operations,

including funds for 300 more diplomatic security positions

. Under Ryan’s budget, non-defense discretionary spending, which includes State Department funding, would be slashed nearly 20 percent in 2014, which would translate to more than $400 million in additional cuts to embassy security.

“It’s also important to note,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) said last week, “that the Republican appropriation in Congress gave the administration $300 million less than it asked for for the State Department, including funding for security.”

link

[Mavric]

No. Apparently I have no idea what you're talking about. It started with you saying show he said he voted against the wars and show he did. I think I've done both.

 

What would you like to argue now?

No change to the argument. I'll even post it again for you and underline the portion that you are missing:

 

 

Shouldn't be too hard. Show that he was talking specifically about the two wars . . . and then show that he said that he voted against them.

Here's your transcript. Fire away.

 

[biden] And by the way, they talk about this Great Recession if it fell out of the sky, like, oh my goodness, where did it come from? It came from this man voting to put two wars in a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion- dollar tax cut for a — very wealthy. I was there. I voted against him. I said, no, we can't afford that. And now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with a concern about the debt that they created —

Debate Transcript

 

 

Wow. Only you can insist on showing something about two wars which includes a quote about two wars and that's not good enough.

 

1 - Prove that he wasn't talking about the two wars he referenced immediately prior.

2 - If, perhaps, he wasn't talking about the wars, his statement was STILL a lie.