Penalty Question - Holding tacked on to the end of the play?

[The Red & White Knight]

The announcers on husker sports network were stunned, I was as well, and from what i could tell on ABC they didn't get it either (but I didn't hear that much).

 

Has this ever happened before? If there's holding 'during' the play, isn't it one or the other? Or is that actually the rule, that you can tack on holding 'after' the play is over?

 

 

 

...thoughts?

[HUSKER FREAK]

The announcers on husker sports network were stunned, I was as well, and from what i could tell on ABC they didn't get it either (but I didn't hear that much).

 

Has this ever happened before? If there's holding 'during' the play, isn't it one or the other? Or is that actually the rule, that you can tack on holding 'after' the play is over?

 

 

 

...thoughts?

I agree this was a very frustrating call that I believe the refs blew. I said after the call that maybe there was something that I wasn't seeing, but I think it was a bad call.

[admo]

Ya that got fubar'd..... Pretty sure personal foul calls are the only penalties that can be enforced on top of play. Oh well..

[HuskerInLostWages]

I always thought Holding on defense was from the spot of the foul itself. You tack 10 yards from the spot of the foul.

[TheKiD]

Rule 9, Section 3, Article 4

 

e. When a legal forward pass crosses the neutral zone during a forward-pass play and a contact foul that is not pass interference is committed beyond the neutral zone, the enforcement spot is the previous spot. This includes Rule 9-3-4-c (A.R. 7-3-9-I and A.R. 9-3-4-I and II).

 

PENALTY—10 or 15 yards from the previous spot, plus first down if the foul occurred against an eligible receiver before the pass was touched [s38, S42, S43 or S45].

 

It would seem to me that the penalty was indeed a personal foul and the ref misstated the penalty, or the enforcement was wrong and the refs will be hearing from either the B10 and/or NCAA about it.

[MLB 51]

I always thought Holding on defense was from the spot of the foul itself. You tack 10 yards from the spot of the foul.

I think it is 5 yards and an automatic first down. Not a spot foul.

[The Red & White Knight]

Rule 9, Section 3, Article 4

 

e. When a legal forward pass crosses the neutral zone during a forward-pass play and a contact foul that is not pass interference is committed beyond the neutral zone, the enforcement spot is the previous spot. This includes Rule 9-3-4-c (A.R. 7-3-9-I and A.R. 9-3-4-I and II).

 

PENALTY—10 or 15 yards from the previous spot, plus first down if the foul occurred against an eligible receiver before the pass was touched [s38, S42, S43 or S45].

 

It would seem to me that the penalty was indeed a personal foul and the ref misstated the penalty, or the enforcement was wrong and the refs will be hearing from either the B10 and/or NCAA about it.

 

 

 

Hmmmmm

 

From what I recall, it was holding and not PI, but I don't know. Seemed like the ultimate bonus first down.

I didn't know if there was a rule change I didn't know about though.

 

Awkward.

[TheKiD]

Rule 9, Section 3, Article 4

 

e. When a legal forward pass crosses the neutral zone during a forward-pass play and a contact foul that is not pass interference is committed beyond the neutral zone, the enforcement spot is the previous spot. This includes Rule 9-3-4-c (A.R. 7-3-9-I and A.R. 9-3-4-I and II).

 

PENALTY—10 or 15 yards from the previous spot, plus first down if the foul occurred against an eligible receiver before the pass was touched [s38, S42, S43 or S45].

 

It would seem to me that the penalty was indeed a personal foul and the ref misstated the penalty, or the enforcement was wrong and the refs will be hearing from either the B10 and/or NCAA about it.

 

 

 

Hmmmmm

 

From what I recall, it was holding and not PI, but I don't know. Seemed like the ultimate bonus first down.

I didn't know if there was a rule change I didn't know about though.

 

Awkward.

 

The way the rules is stated (unless it has been changed). A defensive holding call should have been 10 or 15 yards from the previous spot plus an automatic first down. There is no language that allows for the penalty to be enforced from either the spot of the foul or from the end of the play.

 

It was either a) wrong penalty announced or b) wrong enforcement of the defensive holding penalty

[MLB 51]

Defensive holding= 5 yard penalty+automatic first down.

[The Red & White Knight]

also, personal fouls are always 15 years + auto first down, right?

[I AM FOOT FOOT]

also, personal fouls are always 15 years + auto first down, right?

it depends on the personal foul i gess,15 years seems harsh for football

[The Red & White Knight]

lol

 

whooooooopppppssssss

 

15 yards

[Mavric]

Rule 9, Section 3, Article 4

 

e. When a legal forward pass crosses the neutral zone during a forward-pass play and a contact foul that is not pass interference is committed beyond the neutral zone, the enforcement spot is the previous spot. This includes Rule 9-3-4-c (A.R. 7-3-9-I and A.R. 9-3-4-I and II).

 

PENALTY—10 or 15 yards from the previous spot, plus first down if the foul occurred against an eligible receiver before the pass was touched [s38, S42, S43 or S45].

 

It would seem to me that the penalty was indeed a personal foul and the ref misstated the penalty, or the enforcement was wrong and the refs will be hearing from either the B10 and/or NCAA about it.

That isn't the correct rule citation. The one you cited only has to do on passing plays which is where you most often see defensive holding. This was called on a running play.

 

From Rule 9:

ARTICLE 4.

a. Defensive players may use hands and arms to push, pull, ward off or lift offensive players when attempting to reach the runner.

b. Defensive players may not use hands and arms to tackle, hold or otherwise illegally obstruct an opponent other than a runner.

PENALTY—10 yards [s42].

 

So the 10 yards was correct. 5 yards and an automatic first down is the NFL rule.

 

As far as the enforcement, I also thought that seemed odd but it appears to be correct:

 

 

From Rule 10

Determining the Enforcement Spot

ARTICLE 2. <snip>

c. The Three-and-One Principle (Rule 2-33) is as follows:

1. When the team in possession commits a foul behind the basic spot, the penalty is enforced at the spot of the foul.

2. When the team in possession commits a foul beyond the basic spot, the penalty is enforced at the basic spot.

3. When the team not in possession commits a foul either behind or beyond the basic spot, the penalty is enforced at the basic spot.

d. The following are basic spots for the various categories of plays:

1. Running plays.

(a) Previous spot, when the related run ends behind the neutral zone.

(b) End of the related run, when the related run ends beyond the neutral

zone.

© End of the related run, on running plays that have no neutral zone.

 

So, as crazy as that seemed, it appears it was enforced correctly.

[The Red & White Knight]

wow. good find. what site did you get all that from?

[Mavric]

Just googled NCAA Football Rules. It's on the NCAA site.

 

NCAA Rule Book