Voting in Florida

[carlfense]

Nebraska has reduced the number of rural voting places in the panhandle.

And in certain parts of Omaha . . . not the suburbs of course.

[krill]

It is amazing that in this nation, you can watch a video on youtube in HD, streamed across dozens of networks spanning thousands of miles without a lost packet, but it is impossible for us to ensure that those eligible to vote can vote with reasonable ease, those not eligible cannot, and every vote is counted accurately.

[lo country]

Anymore info about the plane that crashed on A-stan last week (IIRC) carrying mail to include ballots? Also saw quite a few military down range were unable to get their ballots back in time.

 

Even for all the "mistakes and issues" still the best system around IMO.

[JJ Husker]

Personally I think Florida's voting is a clusterf*ck not for any partisan reasons but simply because they have too many people that don't fully understand how to accomplish the task and it seems their infrastructure and management is poor. Eight days should be more than enough time. Hell it wasn't too many years ago that everyone had to do it on one day and it seemed to come off fine. Nowadays, if you can't accomplish the task between mail-in, 8 days or less of early voting, and the regular election day, then I think you are possibly too stupid or lazy and have forfeited the right to cast your vote.

 

This isn't a case of fraud or suppresion, it's just Darwin at work. We can't early vote on weekends in Colorado and you don't hear about this crap here.

[lo country]

It is amazing that in this nation, you can watch a video on youtube in HD, streamed across dozens of networks spanning thousands of miles without a lost packet, but it is impossible for us to ensure that those eligible to vote can vote with reasonable ease, those not eligible cannot, and every vote is counted accurately.

 

Or I can send a package from SC to Japan overnight and it gets there.

[krill]

Personally I think Florida's voting is a clusterf*ck not for any partisan reasons but simply because they have too many people that don't fully understand how to accomplish the task and it seems their infrastructure and management is poor. Eight days should be more than enough time. Hell it wasn't too many years ago that everyone had to do it on one day and it seemed to come off fine. Nowadays, if you can't accomplish the task between mail-in, 8 days or less of early voting, and the regular election day, then I think you are possibly too stupid or lazy and have forfeited the right to cast your vote.

 

This isn't a case of fraud or suppresion, it's just Darwin at work. We can't early vote on weekends in Colorado and you don't hear about this crap here.

 

I have to disagree with you; because something can be done (having to jump through hoops to vote) is a very weak argument against reform. It took me three minutes to vote today at 5:00 PM in rural Lancaster country on a simple, clear paper ballot. Far too many people in our country have had to endure attempts to disenfranchise their legitimate right to vote, long lines at the poles, confusing ballots, and electronic voting machines that have been intensely scrutinized for reliability and security.

[knapplc]

There is nothing American about voter suppression. I find it reprehensible that anyone would attempt to defend it. It goes against everything we stand for as a nation.

 

A part of me swells with pride when I look at news clips of people across the world voting for the first time. People who were formerly oppressed in their countries gaining freedoms that they never thought possible.

 

And then when, in America, an entire political party is actively attempting to disenfranchise a tremendous amount of voters, that just breaks my heart. That is not the country so many of my family members have fought for, sacrificed for, and some died for. It's a tragedy made worse by the fact that America, of all countries, should know better than to do such a thing.

[knapplc]

And for the record, we're not just seeing this in Florida:

 

Oregon

 

Pennsylvania

 

Mississippi

 

There are plenty more.

[JJ Husker]

Knapp, are the saddles for that high horse more expensive than for a normal height horse? I was in no way defending any attempts of voter fraud or suppresion. And your one sided analysis of who is guilty of attempts to rig the system is just that one sided. I don't doubt that there are some instances of these shenanigans but please acknowledge that both sides are equally guilty of it. Black panthers in Philly, busing in non-english speaking folk in Ohio and instructing them to vote a straight dem ticket, and even here in Colorado, Arapahoe County, reports of Romney votes being credited to the Obama tally. I mention these not to try tp one up you but to make the point that any of these are bad and should not be ignored in some partisan attempt to score points for your preferred side.

[JJ Husker]

Krill- I agree that no one should have to "jump through hoops" to cast their ballot. I just am not seeing these hoops. Eight days of early voting is not a hoop. Twelve hours of polls being open on election day is not a hoop. The option for mail in voting is not a hoop. I have used voting machines as well as paper ballots and a pen; sure seemed straightforward and not confusing in the slightest to me. Thus my previous comments. I suppose if you start figuring in the effects of very advanced aging and the inability to communicate in english, then yes it might be a little more challenging for some people but, those people are also going to be challenged placing a burger order at MacDonalds. Sorry but we can't make it absolutely fool proof. There are exceptional fools that will assuredly not be able to accomplish it. IMO, those are the people we probably don't want influencing an election anyway. Of course I am a proponent of people being able to pass a simple, general exam before they should be allowed to vote. I would call it the Darwin test.

[knapplc]

Knapp, are the saddles for that high horse more expensive than for a normal height horse? I was in no way defending any attempts of voter fraud or suppresion. And your one sided analysis of who is guilty of attempts to rig the system is just that one sided. I don't doubt that there are some instances of these shenanigans but please acknowledge that both sides are equally guilty of it. Black panthers in Philly, busing in non-english speaking folk in Ohio and instructing them to vote a straight dem ticket, and even here in Colorado, Arapahoe County, reports of Romney votes being credited to the Obama tally. I mention these not to try tp one up you but to make the point that any of these are bad and should not be ignored in some partisan attempt to score points for your preferred side.

 

As I've said, a good 100 times now, I do not have a "side." I am an American, a non-partisan voter. I am not now, nor have I ever been, an Obama supporter. I have voted for him twice as the lesser of two evils. If you didn't want me to vote for him, you should have 1) Not had Sarah Palin on the 2008 ticket and 2) Not had Mitt Romney on the 2012 ticket.

 

I fully agree that all voter fraud and/or suppression is bad. I have never, one time, said it was OK or turned a blind eye to it.

 

I await links to reliable sources to these allegations. Once again, you've provided none.

[JJ Husker]

You've said it 100 times and probably more but, saying one thing and constantly posting in another direction is rather telling. Maybe it is just that you dislike Romney and Palin but it seems way more lopsided. I would equate it to the typical, rabid, Husker fan after repeatedly cheering for the Huskers and not one word of encouragement for any opponent and then claiming that you are not a Husker fan but rather only a football fan. I'll take your word for it but the actions don't add up to the claim. If you're content to claim that the only election tampering problems are committed by Republicans (because I have not provided links) I don't believe any links I could produce would go far towards convincing you otherwise. I know it's a two way street and that ia good enough for me. If you want to continue as if it's primarily a repub only infraction, it is not up to me to enlighten you.

 

BTW, congratulations on the Obama victory. I had hoped it would go the other way but I sure can't claim that we are missing out on all that much by not electing Romney. I never felt he was a strong candidate and he was at least third down my list of R candidates. Hopefully their will be more compromise from both sides so something can actually begin to get addressed. Four more years of gridlock is not what we need.

[strigori]

Its not even about tampering. There was a tweet from Gray Sharp that someone he knew in Florida had been in line to vote for 5 1/2 hours, and was still an hour away from getting to vote. There is no excuse for crap like that. Its always worse in the 'blue' counties down there. They just try to make it such a timesink to cast a ballot that people will give up and go home.

 

Fully agree that Congress and the Senate need to get their act together and get some work done. Compromise is the core of how politics are supposed to work, it does not mean one side or the other failed.

[knapplc]

You've said it 100 times and probably more but, saying one thing and constantly posting in another direction is rather telling. Maybe it is just that you dislike Romney and Palin but it seems way more lopsided. I would equate it to the typical, rabid, Husker fan after repeatedly cheering for the Huskers and not one word of encouragement for any opponent and then claiming that you are not a Husker fan but rather only a football fan. I'll take your word for it but the actions don't add up to the claim. If you're content to claim that the only election tampering problems are committed by Republicans (because I have not provided links) I don't believe any links I could produce would go far towards convincing you otherwise. I know it's a two way street and that ia good enough for me. If you want to continue as if it's primarily a repub only infraction, it is not up to me to enlighten you.

 

Shockingly, when the conservative members of this board spew endless derp about birth certificates, skewed polls, jobs/economy numbers and the reasons for them, voter fraud, blah blah blah, I'm not going to sit idly by and not debunk the derp. Truth is a wonderful thing, and truth is utterly necessary in a time like this. But we don't get truth from so many people - we get nonsense, generated in Republican far-right think tanks, disseminated by the mainstream media, and regurgitated unthinkingly by the masses. How many of those things that I've been railing against have turned out to be Rovian Spin? Have any been shown to be right?

 

You and I didn't talk in the Bush years. Had we, I suppose you would have thought I was Republican. I spent the majority of his time in office, up until about the last two years, defending him from the tinfoil hat nutters with their conspiracy theories and other utter garbage dreamt up for them by Democrat far-left think tanks, disseminated by the liberal media, and regurgitated unthinkingly by the masses. I defended that president against nuttery and I defended this president against nuttery. I'm not going to apologize for that, even though I have zero allegiance to either party.

 

It's a copout to simply state that no links you could provide would be convincing. You still should support your argument. If the only thing that supports it is right-wing nuttery... maybe that should be a clue that your argument is flawed, and not your audience.

 

Finally, I wholeheartedly agree that we need compromise and much reaching across the aisle. Let's hope we see this. It may be the last chance the Republicans have of reaching out to an America that, more and more, is not buying into their spin.

[carlfense]

You've said it 100 times and probably more but, saying one thing and constantly posting in another direction is rather telling. Maybe it is just that you dislike Romney and Palin but it seems way more lopsided. I would equate it to the typical, rabid, Husker fan after repeatedly cheering for the Huskers and not one word of encouragement for any opponent and then claiming that you are not a Husker fan but rather only a football fan. I'll take your word for it but the actions don't add up to the claim. If you're content to claim that the only election tampering problems are committed by Republicans (because I have not provided links) I don't believe any links I could produce would go far towards convincing you otherwise. I know it's a two way street and that ia good enough for me. If you want to continue as if it's primarily a repub only infraction, it is not up to me to enlighten you.

 

Shockingly, when the conservative members of this board spew endless derp about birth certificates, skewed polls, jobs/economy numbers and the reasons for them, voter fraud, blah blah blah, I'm not going to sit idly by and not debunk the derp. Truth is a wonderful thing, and truth is utterly necessary in a time like this. But we don't get truth from so many people - we get nonsense, generated in Republican far-right think tanks, disseminated by the mainstream media, and regurgitated unthinkingly by the masses. How many of those things that I've been railing against have turned out to be Rovian Spin? Have any been shown to be right?

 

You and I didn't talk in the Bush years. Had we, I suppose you would have thought I was Republican. I spent the majority of his time in office, up until about the last two years, defending him from the tinfoil hat nutters with their conspiracy theories and other utter garbage dreamt up for them by Democrat far-left think tanks, disseminated by the liberal media, and regurgitated unthinkingly by the masses. I defended that president against nuttery and I defended this president against nuttery. I'm not going to apologize for that, even though I have zero allegiance to either party.

 

It's a copout to simply state that no links you could provide would be convincing. You still should support your argument. If the only thing that supports it is right-wing nuttery... maybe that should be a clue that your argument is flawed, and not your audience.

 

Finally, I wholeheartedly agree that we need compromise and much reaching across the aisle. Let's hope we see this. It may be the last chance the Republicans have of reaching out to an America that, more and more, is not buying into their spin.

*clap* *clap* *clap*

 

I remember those Bush years too. Some of the things that I heard spewed in undergraduate English classes . . .