carlfense Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 It's kinda-sorta a straw man, but why are we talking about gun control right now? Sandy Hook - yet another mass murder using guns. Agreed . . . but I don't think that anyone has said that we only care about mass shooters. I think some (probably myself included) have argued that reducing the lethality of mass shooters would be a good thing. That doesn't imply that only mass shootings are worthy of attention. Link to comment
carlfense Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Are murders that happen in masses the only things worth talking about or something? I'll answer as soon as you show me where someone has made that argument in this thread. Straw man. (You probably know that already.) You brought up mass murders. Very good. Now where did I say anything remotely close to mass shootings being the only thing worthy of attention? Link to comment
The Dude Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Worked out for Brazil. I'm all in. Worked out for England. Worked out for Australia. Not really. Those places had virtually non-existent gun violence even before they decided to ban guns. Brazil had out-of-control gun violence before they decided to ban them, and they still do. It may have even exacerbated the problem. You're taking a very complex set of issues and dumbing it down to more guns = more violence. Which isn't necessarily true, anyways. More guns = more gun violence. Less guns = less gun violence. Unequivocally true. So you would say there's simply more guns in East St. Louis than there is in the state of Nebraska? Link to comment
The Dude Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Brazil had out-of-control gun violence before they decided to ban them, and they still do. It may have even exacerbated the problem. Brazil banned guns? What? I meant to amend that. No, they didn't. But they have much stricter gun laws. And much worse gun crime. Link to comment
NebraskaHarry Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Are murders that happen in masses the only things worth talking about or something? I'll answer as soon as you show me where someone has made that argument in this thread. Straw man. (You probably know that already.) You brought up mass murders. Very good. Now where did I say anything remotely close to mass shootings being the only thing worthy of attention? You'd make a good lawyer Carlfense. Instead of answering questions you just ask more questions. Link to comment
The Dude Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Are murders that happen in masses the only things worth talking about or something? I'll answer as soon as you show me where someone has made that argument in this thread. Straw man. (You probably know that already.) You brought up mass murders. Very good. Now where did I say anything remotely close to mass shootings being the only thing worthy of attention? You'd make a good lawyer Carlfense. Instead of answering questions you just ask more questions. Isn't he a lawyer? Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Brazil had out-of-control gun violence before they decided to ban them, and they still do. It may have even exacerbated the problem. Brazil banned guns? What? I meant to amend that. No, they didn't. But they have much stricter gun laws. And much worse gun crime. I don't want to be compared to Brazil in ANY way. That country is a mess of corruption, drugs and poverty. It's a third-world nation. If we're so desperate to normalize America's gun violence that we're comparing ourselves to third-world nations, the debate is over. 1 Link to comment
NebraskaHarry Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 No idea. But if he is, it doesn't surprise me. Link to comment
The Dude Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Brazil had out-of-control gun violence before they decided to ban them, and they still do. It may have even exacerbated the problem. Brazil banned guns? What? I meant to amend that. No, they didn't. But they have much stricter gun laws. And much worse gun crime. I don't want to be compared to Brazil in ANY way. That country is a mess of corruption, drugs and poverty. It's a third-world nation. If we're so desperate to normalize America's gun violence that we're comparing ourselves to third-world nations, the debate is over. You're missing the point. It's their mess of corruption, drugs and poverty that leads to most of their violence. Just as it does here, just on a smaller scale, since our corruption, drug and poverty problems aren't as intense. Link to comment
NebraskaHarry Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Are murders that happen in masses the only things worth talking about or something? I'll answer as soon as you show me where someone has made that argument in this thread. Straw man. (You probably know that already.) You brought up mass murders. Very good. Now where did I say anything remotely close to mass shootings being the only thing worthy of attention? Where did I say that you said that mass shootings were the only thing worthy of attention? Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Brazil had out-of-control gun violence before they decided to ban them, and they still do. It may have even exacerbated the problem. Brazil banned guns? What? I meant to amend that. No, they didn't. But they have much stricter gun laws. And much worse gun crime. I don't want to be compared to Brazil in ANY way. That country is a mess of corruption, drugs and poverty. It's a third-world nation. If we're so desperate to normalize America's gun violence that we're comparing ourselves to third-world nations, the debate is over. You're missing the point. It's their mess of corruption, drugs and poverty that leads to most of their violence. Just as it does here, just on a smaller scale, since our corruption, drug and poverty problems aren't as intense. That's not a point worth making. You're comparing apples and armadillos. Brazil's culture and is not in any way comparable to ours. Link to comment
The Dude Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 That's not a point worth making. You're comparing apples and armadillos. Brazil's culture and is not in any way comparable to ours. It's comparable in that we both have social, economic and drug related problems that tend to lead to violence. Just on different scales. But again, that's not the point. The point is more guns =/= more gun violence. Link to comment
The Dude Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 So you would say there's simply more guns in East St. Louis than there is in the state of Nebraska? ? Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 How many guns are in East St. Louis? How many guns are in Nebraska? Link to comment
B1G Red Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Worked out for Brazil. I'm all in. Worked out for England. Worked out for Australia. Not really. Those places had virtually non-existent gun violence even before they decided to ban guns. Brazil had out-of-control gun violence before they decided to ban them, and they still do. It may have even exacerbated the problem. You're taking a very complex set of issues and dumbing it down to more guns = more violence. Which isn't necessarily true, anyways. More guns = more gun violence. Less guns = less gun violence. Unequivocally true. Knapp, not true. If you care to debate facts, countries with stricter gun ownership and lower gun ownership tend to have HIGHER violent crime rates. Criminals still use guns and/or other weapons to perpetrate crimes on defensless law abiding citizens. Your "Unequivocally true" is just unequivocally your opinion. Link to comment
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