OSHA

[BigRedBuster]

QMany,

 

I agree. But, the common sense way of looking at it is require us to put signs up telling employees to not blow it up your nostrils, eyes mouth or ears.

[BigRedBuster]

We will get this figured out some how. We have good people working on it.

 

My point of the thread was more to get your reaction to a regulation like this that (at least to me) makes absolutely no sense when put into actual practice.

So often this is what happens when you put government in control of something.

[carlfense]

So often this is what happens when you put government in control of something.

I get the impression that this is one of the more ridiculous examples that you've seen, correct?

 

Selection bias/confirmation bias can be a powerful thing . . . and specifically selected examples can make something look ridiculous when the big picture might look quite different.

[BigRedBuster]

Very very seldom do we have an OSHA guy come through so I don't have a lot to fall back on.

 

Every once in a while some type of employment law comes up that leaves me saying...WTF....

[HSKR]

This is the stupidity of OSHA at it's finest. For example, take any kind of paint sprayer you can imagine and it would do the exact same thing to you, well except you would be injecting paint into your body instead of air, lol. So does this mean OSHA is going to regulate all paint sprayers be under 30 psi? Oh and don't tell me that you are supposed to wear protective suits when painting because it would go right through a lot of them that are approved.

 

Many times with OSHA it's not the rules but the inconsistency of how they enforce them.

[BigRedBuster]

I know this story is second hand. But, I had a friend who owned a contracting business that helped build the large arena that is now down town Des Moines. One night over a few beers we started talking about OSHA. He gave me an example of working on that arena. An OSHA person was on the job site at all times. There were times that they needed to run an extension cord to a certain spot to do a job. OSHA regulations prevented them from running the extension cord to that spot. SO....they had no option to run the extension cord and know they are going to get fined.

[JJ Husker]

I have a little experience with OSHA requirements and inspections and have a couple things you could try.

 

1- They will find a problem when they inspect. Doesn't matter if you have any issues or not, they will come up with at least one. So, leave a very minor but obvious thing for them to find that can be easily corrected. That may keep them from looking too hard to find something. It has worked for us with both OSHA and USDA inspectors. Tip- change it up. You don't want to do the same thing every time or they may cite you for a repeat offense.

 

2- If it is only certain people who need to use the air nozzles intermittently, maybe you could skirt the issue by A) Locking out the air line when it is not needed so untrained personnel cannot operate it. B) Train the proper people to use them and have them wear the required PPE (personal protective equipment).

 

I cannot fathom that a blowoff nozzle cannot be operated at 100 psi +/- if you show training and PPE use. We actually have these blowoff nozzles in our shop at every work station and ....ahem.....they are non-restricted and approx. 110 psi. I use them frequently to blow dust or whatnot off my clothes, face, bare skin, whatever. We actually did the voluntary inspection, as knapp mentioned above, and they did not mention our blowoff nozzles at all. However, it is quite possible that none of them were hooked up at the time. Each of our work cells has an air hose with quick disconnect fitting. The guys use it for whatever tool, including blowoff nozzles, that they need at the time. Come to think of it, that may solve your problem. Just have the people that need the nozzles carry them with them and have them hook up with a quick disconnect fitting. Only takes a couple seconds and, if OSHA shows up to inspect just don't get them out and use them when they are there.

 

I think a version of OSHA is necessary but they have continued to expand and encroach from their initial charge. Yes, they are out of control and a lot of what they do is total idiocy. But, a lot of what they do is also very sensible and saves a lot of lives and injuries.

[JJ Husker]

The more I think about this air nozzle deal the more stupid it seems. We do work for a large meat processor who has to do a total plant washdown every single day. They have washdown hoses with 180-200 degree water at about 125 psi, open ended discharge, no special training and no PPE required. Anybody can grab one and use it. I guarantee you that is waaaay more dangerous than a piddly little 100 psi air hose. They undergo OSHA inspections (the crawl up your ass with a flashlight kind) frequently and they still continue to use those death hoses. But, that's our government for ya.

[strigori]

Osha was started with very good intentions, but like everything else with the word 'safety' involved, has gotten out of hand.

 

My experiences with them the primary thing they were focused on was tripping hazards, which amounted to pretty much everything. They tend to have a obsession with empty pallets.

 

A plant my mom had worked at years ago used sulfuric and hyrdochloric acids for etching chips. They were kept in a glass bottles in a 'box' the numbskull osha guy almost picked up the bottle tops without proper gloves on...

 

It is an area that needs to be revamped. At some point they just need to realize you can't protect the stupid from themselves sometimes.

[HSKR]

Take it for what it is worth but I had someone who works construction in Lincoln tell me that OSHA's funding has actually decreased and they where making up the shortfall through increased fines, basically finding anything they could to fine people in order to keep their own jobs. He said they normally leave the little guys alone but lately had been going after the smaller residential type construction instead of just the normal big commercial jobs.

[Count 'Bility]

Take it for what it is worth but I had someone who works construction in Lincoln tell me that OSHA's funding has actually decreased and they where making up the shortfall through increased fines, basically finding anything they could to fine people in order to keep their own jobs. He said they normally leave the little guys alone but lately had been going after the smaller residential type construction instead of just the normal big commercial jobs.

true. My dad owns a plumbing business. Installing a new water service on a low traveled residential street and having never been told such before, my brother and the guy they were working with were threatened with a 2500$ fine per man if they did not leave the jobsite immediately, not to return until they had the flourescent visible vests, when 90% of the work was taking place on private property. How the hell does that sh#t work?

[knapplc]

Take it for what it is worth but I had someone who works construction in Lincoln tell me that OSHA's funding has actually decreased and they where making up the shortfall through increased fines, basically finding anything they could to fine people in order to keep their own jobs. He said they normally leave the little guys alone but lately had been going after the smaller residential type construction instead of just the normal big commercial jobs.

 

And this is a horrible problem. The government should not prey on the citizenry for funding. We either fund them as we see fit or they go unfunded. If they go unfunded, clearly we didn't see the need to fund them to such a degree. That should not give the agency license to inflict fines and fees on the citizens. It's a bass-ackward way of running a government.

[HuskerfaninOkieland]

I've been taking some safety classes as a part of my degree plan (Safety Management, Fundamentals of Safety Engineering, Intro to OSHA, etc) and the same resounding answer to how OSHA comes up with these rules is General Industry Standards. In other words, if a certain industry says they need or recommend using certain types of equipment, shoes, goggles, PPE, etc, OSHA adopts those standards as their own. Short story, somewhere along the line, an industry standard was created that stated this certain amount of air pressure cannot be exceeded for this purpose and OSHA said "Ok". OSHA relies on GIS's to determine what people should and should not be doing. But, they don't just pull these rules out of their ass. It's actually a long convaluted process that literally takes years. They have to propose a rule change/adoption, allow for public hearings, re-writes, and so on. So this "new rule" they came out with has most likely been in the works for a very long time.

 

As knapp suggested, you can appeal the infraction however, expect a very lengthy process. Your next step would be with a 3-panel board and depending on that outcome, it can go as high as Federal Circuit Court. The catch to this is, the 3-panel board has not been 3 persons for quite some time and until a third person is appointed, all appeals are on hold.

 

Your best bet? Fire your safety manager and hire someone who knows what the hell he's doing. If your company doesn't want to fire him, suggest bringing in a CSP (Certified Safety Professional) and doing a walk-through with your bosses and the safety manager.

 

Get this.....

 

I asked my safety guy what OSHA thinks is harmful about this. I have gone through our shop and had dust on me and taken one of these and blown off dust right off my bare skin and it didn't even hurt.

 

He said, "If you take more than 30 lbs and blow it into an orifice of your body it can do harm.

 

REALLY???? So, what friggen idiot took one of these and some point in time and stuck it up their azz and was injured then turned around and sued their company which in turn ended up making a new OSHA rule?

Air bubbles can and have entered the blood stream. One small air bubble in your blood stream can lead to embolism.

[BigRedBuster]

Lol.....fire him for what?

 

If i fired someone every time OSHA enforced a stupid rule i would be replacing a safety manager every time they walked in the door.

 

Just because it's a lengthy process doesn't mean stupid rules don't exist.

 

As pointed out many times in this thread, OSHA has some ulterior motives many times. Unfortunately, industry is stuck trying to work with them.

[HSKR]

Lol.....fire him for what?

 

If i fired someone every time OSHA enforced a stupid rule i would be replacing a safety manager every time they walked in the door.

 

Just because it's a lengthy process doesn't mean stupid rules don't exist.

 

As pointed out many times in this thread, OSHA has some ulterior motives many times. Unfortunately, industry is stuck trying to work with them.

 

 

Come on BRB, a college course says that's what you need to do, better do it. Quit using practical every day first hand experience and common sense as your guide and do what is suggested by some professor who wrote a textbook.