Government Shutdown

[carlfense]

Please show me where I have ever supported Fox News and said they are anything but a mouth piece for the piece of crap that is the Republican party.

You didn't. Junior's FN link (immediately prior to the MJ link) didn't seem to generate the same reaction as your reaction to Mother Jones.

 

I have said over and over again on this board how much I despise Fox news and any media like them that panders to one political side. Quite frankly, I haven't clicked on a link in this thread from Foxnews. In fact, I just looked back and I don't remember seeing any link from Foxnews other than the one in your post for which I agreed with you that they are the same and you still are trying to fabricate an argument. Why?

http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/66674-government-shutdown/page__view__findpost__p__1231885

 

Are you out of real reasons to argue?

Never.

[strigori]

If republicans had an ounce of sense, which they clearly do not, they would excommunicate the Tea Party from their ranks. They are zealots plain and simple, and you can not reason with zealots. Those idiots cant seem to understand they are, in fact, a small minority and not the only will of the people.

[HuskerLuke]

Was Senator Obama successful in preventing the raising of the debt ceiling?

 

You seem to be advocating not for a misguided message vote . . . but for actually defaulting if the GOP demands aren't met.

 

There is no chance of the debt ceiling not being raised. None. But I'm all for hostage taking, preferably hostages that will freak out the stock market for a couple days and put the pressure on a president not particularly known for his resolve. That's just good strategy for achieving policy aims. Actually shooting the hostage and forcing the country into default? Of course I don't support that, and neither does 90%+ of the House GOP (neither did Senator Obama), but saying that out loud undermines the credibility of the threat.

[tschu]

GOP is just patently insane. I want to again reiterate that I am libertarian-ish and don't like either party. But the last few years have just been the GOP running around in circles with Yakity Sax playing over the loudspeakers.

[knapplc]

But I'm all for hostage taking, preferably hostages that will freak out the stock market for a couple days and put the pressure on a president not particularly known for his resolve. That's just good strategy for achieving policy aims. Actually shooting the hostage and forcing the country into default? Of course I don't support that, and neither does 90%+ of the House GOP (neither did Senator Obama), but saying that out loud undermines the credibility of the threat.

 

“We stress the importance of martyrdom operations against the enemy, these attacks that have scared Americans and Israelis like never before.”— Osama bin Laden

 

The more entrenched Republicans become, the more they resemble the worst of extremists.

[HuskerLuke]

But I'm all for hostage taking, preferably hostages that will freak out the stock market for a couple days and put the pressure on a president not particularly known for his resolve. That's just good strategy for achieving policy aims. Actually shooting the hostage and forcing the country into default? Of course I don't support that, and neither does 90%+ of the House GOP (neither did Senator Obama), but saying that out loud undermines the credibility of the threat.

 

“We stress the importance of martyrdom operations against the enemy, these attacks that have scared Americans and Israelis like never before.”— Osama bin Laden

 

The more entrenched Republicans become, the more they resemble the worst of extremists.

 

*Exasperated sigh*

 

First off, I'm pretty sure you just broke a variant of the "calling your opponents Nazis on the internet" rule.

 

Second, my whole point is that partisan brinksmanship is an American pastime. Everyone's aghast at how these monstrous Republicans could shut down the government....when there have been 18 of them since the mid-1970s. Unified Democratic governments allowed shutdowns to happen 5 times when Carter was president. The Democratic Congress shut down the government eight times when Reagan was President.

[knapplc]

 

From the Washington Post:

 

[krill]

But I'm all for hostage taking, preferably hostages that will freak out the stock market for a couple days and put the pressure on a president not particularly known for his resolve. That's just good strategy for achieving policy aims. Actually shooting the hostage and forcing the country into default? Of course I don't support that, and neither does 90%+ of the House GOP (neither did Senator Obama), but saying that out loud undermines the credibility of the threat.

 

“We stress the importance of martyrdom operations against the enemy, these attacks that have scared Americans and Israelis like never before.”— Osama bin Laden

 

The more entrenched Republicans become, the more they resemble the worst of extremists.

 

*Exasperated sigh*

 

First off, I'm pretty sure you just broke a variant of the "calling your opponents Nazis on the internet" rule.

 

Second, my whole point is that partisan brinksmanship is an American pastime. Everyone's aghast at how these monstrous Republicans could shut down the government....when there have been 18 of them since the mid-1970s. Unified Democratic governments allowed shutdowns to happen 5 times when Carter was president. The Democratic Congress shut down the government eight times when Reagan was President.

 

Certainly true about past shutdowns, and it's not like New Deal and Medicare legislation went into effect without Republicans using every tactic imaginable (at the time) to stop those laws and protest them.

 

I think the difference here is that in the past, the government at least went back to functioning at a nominal level after everyone had had their fun. After Boehner cracks during this shutdown, if he's even still speaker, does anyone have even the slightest amount of hope that the situation will be improved at all? It won't be long before perpetual crisis over the debt ceiling is the new norm on top of the procedural tactics that have made it all but impossible to rationally legislate and solve America's problems.

[strigori]

won't be long before perpetual crisis over the debt ceiling is the new norm on top of the procedural tactics that have made it all but impossible to rationally legislate and solve America's problems.

You can't have a rational discussion with zealots, which is what the teabaggers are. As long as the GOP allows those crazed lunatics to drive their short bus, things are not going to get better.

 

The dems can't cave either, or the teabaggers will use this tactic to force their extremist agenda down the country's throat. The tea party has a lot in common with the Temperance movement.

[walksalone]

Both sides are at fault...

 

They could come to an agreement about this, but it appears that they won't. If the gov't shuts down, it doesn't affect them, so why should they care...

 

Both sides are not at fault. They simply aren't.

 

Bro, don't let the media get to you... They're going to get you all twisted up and pointing fingers...

 

So the Dems are supposed to cave on the ACA to appease the right? This is political terrorism by the house. "Nobody gets anything until we get what we want!"

 

Face it, the right has lost. The ACA has been voted into effect by Congress, upheld by the Supreme Court, re-voted on 40 times by the House and rejected continually by the Senate. We've had a presidential election since it was voted into law... The right has lost, and they refuse to admit it. So they are holding the government hostage. And you think "both sides are to blame" because.... why?

 

People love to drop the "well all politicians suck" and "blame both parties" lines because they either:

(A) Don't understand what is happening, which I don't think is you

(B) Want to come off as a moderate when they really aren't

© Recognize that their party has screwed the pooch, but want to somehow cast blame on the other party nonetheless.

 

If the gov't really cared about you, wouldn't you have...

 

a) Affordable healthcare

b) Taking care of americans who really need the help

c) Stop taking care of other countries while the well being of our own citizens fall by the wayside.

 

We don't elect presidents, thats left up to electoral college.

 

Since you like putting words in peoples mouths, apparently you're ok with the politicians still getting paid while the gov't is shutdown and they had to vote on whether or not to keep paying our troops?

 

You wrote what you just did because you obviously have an agenda, and care more about blaming the other side than coming up with a suitable solution. I would like to see plenty of problems fixed, but with the way our gov't is currently operated, it's not going to happen... We've had sh*t leaders for years and years, and it's not looking like it's going to get any better...

 

Save your high and mightiness for somebody else that gives a damn...

[EbylHusker]

Actually, he's dead on right. I'm normally of the feeling both sides tend to share equal blame in Congress, but this one falls squarely on the shoulders of the Republican politicians. Most directly the overall party literally pooping themselves in fear of the Tea Party. ACA was passed by Congress, signed into law, and UPHELD BY THE SUPREME COURT.

 

Republicans lost. This is nothing more than a childish trantrum. Of course the Democrats are not going to compromise. Why should they? It's a f'ing law that has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Because a bunch of children want to take their toys and go home after losing is beyond ridiculous. They had their 40+ chances already and failed every single time. Oops.

 

And I don't even care much for plenty of things in Obamacare. But ffs, Republicans need to grow up.

[Junior]

If the gov't really cared about you, wouldn't you have...

 

a) Affordable healthcare

b) Taking care of americans who really need the help

c) Stop taking care of other countries while the well being of our own citizens fall by the wayside.

 

We don't elect presidents, thats left up to electoral college.

 

Since you like putting words in peoples mouths, apparently you're ok with the politicians still getting paid while the gov't is shutdown and they had to vote on whether or not to keep paying our troops?

 

You wrote what you just did because you obviously have an agenda, and care more about blaming the other side than coming up with a suitable solution. I would like to see plenty of problems fixed, but with the way our gov't is currently operated, it's not going to happen... We've had sh*t leaders for years and years, and it's not looking like it's going to get any better...

 

Save your high and mightiness for somebody else that gives a damn...

 

No, I'm not ok with Congress receiving pay during the shutdown. Not OK with that at all. You are right about one thing... I do have an agenda. My agenda is that the Affordable Care Act, which was passed by the United States Congress, signed into law by the President of the United States, and upheld as constitutional by the Supreme Court should be implemented as written. That, and the congressional Republicans should stop holding our country hostage for their stupid games of "I want to be a 2016 candidate!" (see: Cruz, Ted)

[zoogs]

The people who are downplaying the shutdown do have a fair point I think. It's childlessly unnecessary, but it's something that's happened many times before.

 

The debt ceiling issue that's upcoming - what is it, end of this month?...is what is really worrying.

[EbylHusker]

Yeah, I'm not saying the shutdown is the end of the world or anything. It's just annoyingly unnecessary.

[Junior]