BIGREDIOWAN Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Not sure why this hasn't been posted yet, but Governor Nixon has activated the Missouri National Guard, to restore order in Ferguson. Hell.............."National Guard soldier shoots and kills black man" I know that's far fetched, but wouldn't that be a title to read on the morning paper. Link to comment
LukeinNE Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Not sure why this hasn't been posted yet, but Governor Nixon has activated the Missouri National Guard, to restore order in Ferguson. Hell.............."National Guard soldier shoots and kills black man" I know that's far fetched, but wouldn't that be a title to read on the morning paper. Honestly, I'm waiting for some idiot wanting a race war to fire on the police/National Guard from the crowd and try to get a bunch of innocent people hurt in the return volley. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 OK...I fully understand that there are racial problems in America. I realize that we have work to do in this area. However, I came across this article this morning that just seems like someone is trying to stretch things so far making up evidence of racism.So....now....elections in Ferguson are racist because they are held in odd years and are non partisan....really? Give me a break. LINK This article is claiming that having non partisan elections is a detriment to poor uneducated people because then they just don't know who to vote for. Hey.....how about getting groups involved in getting people out to vote in local elections and educating them on local politics. My opinion of why people don't show up (anywhere) for local elections is that they are boring and national media hasn't been around talking about them for 2 years hyping every little detail. They tend to actually be more about issues instead of sound bites and what ever scandal the other side can stir up. 1 Link to comment
LukeinNE Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Also, a partial autopsy, from Michael Baden, hired by the Brown family, is out. Quickly.... -shot 6 times, 4 times in the right arm, twice in the head. -all six shots hit him from the front, he wasn't shot in the back, as Dorian Johnson claimed -I'm not familiar with the physics of bullets, but several of the arm shots wound up in his body, which doesn't seem consistent with the "hands up" theory. -curiously, no GSR was found, which seems to contradict both sides' claim of shots fired at close range -again, curiously, no physical signs of a struggle, which again contradicts both sides' claim of a physical altercation. In other words, just another small piece of the picture. Hopefully the city and federal ME's can shed more light on what happened. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 -I'm not familiar with the physics of bullets, but several of the arm shots wound up in his body, which doesn't seem consistent with the "hands up" theory.That would seem correct only if he didn't lower his arms as bullets were striking him. That doesn't seem likely to me. -curiously, no GSR was found, which seems to contradict both sides' claim of shots fired at close rangeOther than the 1 shot fired from/in the vehicle are both sides claiming that shots were fired at close range? I thought that the consensus was ~35 feet. Link to comment
LukeinNE Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 That would seem correct only if he didn't lower his arms as bullets were striking him. That doesn't seem likely to me. That would require either unbelievably fast reflexes on Brown's part or (more likely, though still not very likely, imo), the police officer shot and missed a stationary target at 10 yards a couple of times before re-centering and firing again. If he had a shot or two to the abdomen in addition to the pass-thrus on the arm, I would say the defensive reflex theory would be more likely... Other than the 1 shot fired from/in the vehicle are both sides claiming that shots were fired at close range? I thought that the consensus was ~35 feet. 1 shot should've been all it took to leave GSR on his body....or clothes, which Baden said he didn't have access to. Link to comment
tschu Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Attempting to dissect what happened based on rudimentary knowledge of the bullet wounds is spectacularly dumb, no matter which side you're on Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 That would seem correct only if he didn't lower his arms as bullets were striking him. That doesn't seem likely to me. That would require either unbelievably fast reflexes on Brown's part or (more likely, though still not very likely, imo), the police officer shot and missed a stationary target at 10 yards a couple of times before re-centering and firing again. If he had a shot or two to the abdomen in addition to the pass-thrus on the arm, I would say the defensive reflex theory would be more likely... Unbelievably fast reflexes? Wouldn't it depend on the spacing and order of the shots? Other than the 1 shot fired from/in the vehicle are both sides claiming that shots were fired at close range? I thought that the consensus was ~35 feet.1 shot should've been all it took to leave GSR on his body....or clothes, which Baden said he didn't have access to. You said ". . . both sides' claim of shots fired at close range." Link to comment
tschu Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 OK...I fully understand that there are racial problems in America. I realize that we have work to do in this area. However, I came across this article this morning that just seems like someone is trying to stretch things so far making up evidence of racism. So....now....elections in Ferguson are racist because they are held in odd years and are non partisan....really? Give me a break. LINK This article is claiming that having non partisan elections is a detriment to poor uneducated people because then they just don't know who to vote for. Hey.....how about getting groups involved in getting people out to vote in local elections and educating them on local politics. My opinion of why people don't show up (anywhere) for local elections is that they are boring and national media hasn't been around talking about them for 2 years hyping every little detail. They tend to actually be more about issues instead of sound bites and what ever scandal the other side can stir up. I mean, the article is correct "Racist" not in the sense that it's overt racism but in the sense that it affects people of one race and one socioeconomic status disproportionately, as with pretty much everything I've argued in this thread. I've noticed people tend to get really up in arms when you accuse someone or something of being racist. It's easy to sit back and go "bahhh this is ridiculous" but if something as simple as holding elections in a different year would increase democracy than I'd be for it Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Attempting to dissect what happened based on rudimentary knowledge of the bullet wounds is spectacularly dumb, no matter which side you're onThis is true. Ultimately (and unfortunately) this case will come down to eyewitness statements. Maybe this will get the ball rolling on cruiser cams in MO. Pretty unbelievable to me that they don't have that equipment. Link to comment
tschu Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Fox News: Race is not an issue, America is one color, and cops need military equipment because the Muslim extremists are coming back!!1! http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/08/18/3472354/fox-panel-defends-ferguson-police-the-response-last-night-is-what-needs-to-happen/ Link to comment
LukeinNE Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Unbelievably fast reflexes? Wouldn't it depend on the spacing and order of the shots? I wasn't clear enough. Witnesses say that Brown turned and put his hands in the air, and then was shot. His hands being in the air and the officer shooting is a crucial element in the sequence, probably the one that will decide the officer's fate. If his hands were in the air when the officer shot his first round, there are three options based on the location of the bullet wounds: 1): the officer missed completely, 2) the officer winged him, and that bullet passed through his arm off somewhere else, 3) the bullet hit his arm and did something weird and ended up in his chest. We don't have enough evidence to know which, if any of those are possible, but Brown obviously wouldn't have had enough time to bring his arms down to shield himself from the first incoming bullet. The only other alternative is that "hands up" never happened. You said ". . . both sides' claim of shots fired at close range." Sloppy on my part. The police say at least one shot, Johnson said one. When it comes to GSR , that should be a distinction without a difference. What I was getting at was that both sides agree that a shot was fired at close range, which should've left GSR on both of them, and it is therefore curious that the autopsy did not show this. Maybe this will get the ball rolling on cruiser cams in MO. Pretty unbelievable to me that they don't have that equipment. No kidding. I honestly thought dash cams were pretty much legally required before this. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 OK...I fully understand that there are racial problems in America. I realize that we have work to do in this area. However, I came across this article this morning that just seems like someone is trying to stretch things so far making up evidence of racism. So....now....elections in Ferguson are racist because they are held in odd years and are non partisan....really? Give me a break. LINK This article is claiming that having non partisan elections is a detriment to poor uneducated people because then they just don't know who to vote for. Hey.....how about getting groups involved in getting people out to vote in local elections and educating them on local politics. My opinion of why people don't show up (anywhere) for local elections is that they are boring and national media hasn't been around talking about them for 2 years hyping every little detail. They tend to actually be more about issues instead of sound bites and what ever scandal the other side can stir up. I mean, the article is correct "Racist" not in the sense that it's overt racism but in the sense that it affects people of one race and one socioeconomic status disproportionately, as with pretty much everything I've argued in this thread. I've noticed people tend to get really up in arms when you accuse someone or something of being racist. It's easy to sit back and go "bahhh this is ridiculous" but if something as simple as holding elections in a different year would increase democracy than I'd be for it How in the hell does it affect one socioeconomic class and race more voting in year 2013 instead of 2014? How in the hell does it affect one socioeconomic class and race more to not have a D or an R after the name? Link to comment
tschu Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Did ya, like, read the article? Turnout is highly affected. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Did ya, like, read the article? Turnout is highly affected. Ummmm.....i'm the one that posted the article. I read the article. I'm questioning the article and it's conclusions. You seem to be defending them. So....I ask you to explain how voting in 2013 vs. 2014 affects one group more than the other. Why no D or R affects one group and not he other? Heck....they are wanting more minorities in public office. Why do you need an R or a D to tell people if someone is Black to vote for them? Link to comment
Recommended Posts