What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

[carlfense]

I wasn't clear enough. Witnesses say that Brown turned and put his hands in the air, and then was shot.

The forensic evidence seems to confirm that Brown wasn't running away when he was shot. It doesn't (IMHO) do anything to confirm or disprove the claim about Mr. Brown having his hands in the air.

 

His hands being in the air and the officer shooting is a crucial element in the sequence, probably the one that will decide the officer's fate.

Possibly. I think it might be more crucial that it's unlikely that Mr. Brown was fleeing the scene by running backwards . . . although that would be somewhat more plausible than firing bullets from behind a fleeing suspect and having those bullets strike the suspect from the front.

 

If his hands were in the air when the officer shot his first round, there are three options based on the location of the bullet wounds: 1): the officer missed completely, 2) the officer winged him, and that bullet passed through his arm off somewhere else, 3) the bullet hit his arm and did something weird and ended up in his chest.

Or 4) the first hit was in the neck/head/hand/etc. and the officer kept firing as Brown was falling/staggering.

 

We don't have enough evidence to know which, if any of those are possible, but Brown obviously wouldn't have had enough time to bring his arms down to shield himself from the first incoming bullet.

Is that what you thought I was saying?

 

The only other alternative is that "hands up" never happened.

Possible. We'll see. Also, it'll be interesting to see how the official ME reports compare to the private preliminary sketch.

[tschu]

 

Did ya, like, read the article? Turnout is highly affected.

Ummmm.....i'm the one that posted the article. I read the article.

 

I'm questioning the article and it's conclusions. You seem to be defending them. So....I ask you to explain how voting in 2013 vs. 2014 affects one group more than the other. Why no D or R affects one group and not he other?

 

Heck....they are wanting more minorities in public office. Why do you need an R or a D to tell people if someone is Black to vote for them?

 

You're drawing very strange conclusions. The data in the article is incredibly clear. Odd-year voting and Non-partisan ballots decrease voter turnout and decreaase knowledge about the candidates, an effect that occurs disproportionately with income and educational status, which have a big correlation with race, unfortunately. You want really-indepth details? There's tons of peer-reviewed research out there with more info.

 

Let me ask you a simple question, do you think that it is better to hold elections in even years or odd years based on this data? And no, you cannot say "It's irrelevant," you must choose one.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Did ya, like, read the article? Turnout is highly affected.

Ummmm.....i'm the one that posted the article. I read the article.

 

I'm questioning the article and it's conclusions. You seem to be defending them. So....I ask you to explain how voting in 2013 vs. 2014 affects one group more than the other. Why no D or R affects one group and not he other?

 

Heck....they are wanting more minorities in public office. Why do you need an R or a D to tell people if someone is Black to vote for them?

 

You're drawing very strange conclusions. The data in the article is incredibly clear. Odd-year voting and Non-partisan ballots decrease voter turnout and decreaase knowledge about the candidates, an effect that occurs disproportionately with income and educational status, which have a big correlation with race, unfortunately. You want really-indepth details? There's tons of peer-reviewed research out there with more info.

 

Let me ask you a simple question, do you think that it is better to hold elections in even years or odd years based on this data? And no, you cannot say "It's irrelevant," you must choose one.

 

I'm drawing very strange conclusions? The article implied that black people aren't going to vote in 2013 and they will in 2014. I'm asking why they can't vote in 2013?

 

So, in other words you don't have the information and you are just taking the article at it's word and saying..."if you want to know, go find it".

Sorry, not buying it.

 

So, minority voters can't come out to vote in 2013 but they can in 2014. Got it.

 

And, the gist of the issue is that the public offices are mostly white when the public is mostly black. Nothing about that has to do with how a candidate stands on an issue. To remedy this problem, literally, show the public a picture of the candidate. I would think you don't even need to be literate to be able to tell who you should vote for if you want more black people in office.

 

Honestly???? I would like to know how many black people have RAN for office in Ferguson. How many times in local elections did the black community not have a black candidate to vote for? THAT is a major issue in many elections where minorities want representation. They feel disenfranchised because they honestly don't feel represented.

 

As for your last question. I honestly don't care. If for some reason black people can't get to the polls in 2015, then fine....move it to 2016. I honestly don't care and I honestly don't understand why that makes a huge difference.

 

How many minority people have stepped up in that community to be leaders? That is what needs to be asked.

[tschu]

Wowzers.

 

And no, I'm not doing your research for you because I already know this sh#t...it's the same reason why Democratic voters show up in far fewer numbers in the midterms. It's really basic stuff. Also I'm on my lunch break and don't have the time.

[tschu]

Two new case things:

 

Autopsy shows no sign of a struggle.

 

Some "anonymous source" says that Brown had marijuana in his system. Not really sure how that's relevant, but ok. Official toxicology report could be a week or more away.

[LukeinNE]

You're drawing very strange conclusions. The data in the article is incredibly clear. Odd-year voting and Non-partisan ballots decrease voter turnout and decreaase knowledge about the candidates, an effect that occurs disproportionately with income and educational status, which have a big correlation with race, unfortunately. You want really-indepth details? There's tons of peer-reviewed research out there with more info.

 

Let me ask you a simple question, do you think that it is better to hold elections in even years or odd years based on this data? And no, you cannot say "It's irrelevant," you must choose one.

 

 

Off-year elections are a good idea for municipal elections precisely because it is desirable for the electorate to know something about the people they're voting for. This spring, I spent probably 2 hours going through the various World-Herald election stories that I saved so I could get my primary ballot for things like the Westside school board, MCC Board of Regents, etc right. Voters who do that are rare enough, how many do you think would do it if we had a presidential campaign raging, sucking up all the oxygen and air time?

 

There is no tax for people to pay to vote. Early voting ballots are widely available, they'll even mail them out if you request them to. There is no good excuse to not vote. Labeling off-year elections implicitly racist because 19/20 blacks (as opposed to 17/20 whites) can't be bothered to exercise a key Constitutional right is ridiculous.

 

....

 

Carl, I don't think we're too far apart on the autopsy. Hopefully the federal/county ones are a little more informative.

[carlfense]

Carl, I don't think we're too far apart on the autopsy. Hopefully the federal/county ones are a little more informative.

I just hope that they're all relatively consistent. Few things are more dull than battling experts.

[tschu]

 

You're drawing very strange conclusions. The data in the article is incredibly clear. Odd-year voting and Non-partisan ballots decrease voter turnout and decreaase knowledge about the candidates, an effect that occurs disproportionately with income and educational status, which have a big correlation with race, unfortunately. You want really-indepth details? There's tons of peer-reviewed research out there with more info.

 

Let me ask you a simple question, do you think that it is better to hold elections in even years or odd years based on this data? And no, you cannot say "It's irrelevant," you must choose one.

 

 

Off-year elections are a good idea for municipal elections precisely because it is desirable for the electorate to know something about the people they're voting for. This spring, I spent probably 2 hours going through the various World-Herald election stories that I saved so I could get my primary ballot for things like the Westside school board, MCC Board of Regents, etc right. Voters who do that are rare enough, how many do you think would do it if we had a presidential campaign raging, sucking up all the oxygen and air time?

 

There is no tax for people to pay to vote. Early voting ballots are widely available, they'll even mail them out if you request them to. There is no good excuse to not vote. Labeling off-year elections implicitly racist because 19/20 blacks (as opposed to 17/20 whites) can't be bothered to exercise a key Constitutional right is ridiculous.

 

 

Oh my.

[StPaulHusker]

Two new case things:

 

Autopsy shows no sign of a struggle.

 

Some "anonymous source" says that Brown had marijuana in his system. Not really sure how that's relevant, but ok. Official toxicology report could be a week or more away.

Didn't the chief of police say the officer did have injuries from a struggle?

 

I would be more concerned about whether the guy walking with Brown had marijuana in his system.

[tschu]

 

Two new case things:

 

Autopsy shows no sign of a struggle.

 

Some "anonymous source" says that Brown had marijuana in his system. Not really sure how that's relevant, but ok. Official toxicology report could be a week or more away.

Didn't the chief of police say the officer did have injuries from a struggle?

 

Yes, he said he had been treated for injuries, but gave no specific cause of injuries

[carlfense]

 

I would be more concerned about whether the guy walking with Brown had marijuana in his system.

 

Why?

[tschu]

I'm more concerned that Luke is advocating that you be at a certain level of education in order to vote which directly contradicts democracy while simultaneously admits that the odd-year system as it is set up prevents so-called uneducated voters from voting. Democracy! Murica!

 

Don't worry, I'm all for educating the voting base. That's a good idea. But I'm not championing the idea that it's better that the so-called uneducated don't vote. Disgusting.

[StPaulHusker]

 

 

I would be more concerned about whether the guy walking with Brown had marijuana in his system.

 

Why?

 

I should have written it differently. If I was the police I would be more concerned about the other guy.

 

I am only saying it from a different point of view. I am not saying that it's my view. but if the other guy was high, there could be the angle that the guy was too stoned to make a true account of what happened.

[LukeinNE]

 

I'm more concerned that Luke is advocating that you be at a certain level of education in order to vote which directly contradicts democracy while simultaneously admits that the odd-year system as it is set up prevents so-called uneducated voters from voting. Democracy! Murica!

 

Don't worry, I'm all for educating the voting base. That's a good idea. But I'm not championing the idea that it's better that the so-called uneducated don't vote. Disgusting.

 

Where the f#ck did you pull that out of?

[carlfense]

 

 

 

I would be more concerned about whether the guy walking with Brown had marijuana in his system.

 

Why?

 

I should have written it differently. If I was the police I would be more concerned about the other guy.

 

I am only saying it from a different point of view. I am not saying that it's my view. but if the other guy was high, there could be the angle that the guy was too stoned to make a true account of what happened.

 

That's awfully tough to quantify . . . that was one of my bigger fears about CO legalizing MJ.

 

You're right that it could be a factor, though.