What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

[LukeinNE]

I think this is having it both ways.

 

Only if the whites are relatively well off at the expense of the blacks, which is a theory I would reject.

 

 

Look, I'm not saying the city government is immune from criticism here. Kwame Kilpatrick was a huge problem all by himself... but you have to acknowledge there are far more factors at play in this situation than "black citizens have a black mayor".

 

I don't think anyone said that, Junior. The race of the people running the city is only relevant if we're talking about racial discrimination in Detroit. Corruption and incompetence are common diseases that infect public "servants" of all races.

[Junior]

 

I think this is having it both ways.

 

Only if the whites are relatively well off at the expense of the blacks, which is a theory I would reject.

 

 

Look, I'm not saying the city government is immune from criticism here. Kwame Kilpatrick was a huge problem all by himself... but you have to acknowledge there are far more factors at play in this situation than "black citizens have a black mayor".

 

I don't think anyone said that, Junior. The race of the people running the city is only relevant if we're talking about racial discrimination in Detroit. Corruption and incompetence are common diseases that infect public "servants" of all races.

 

 

 

Then what was your point in bringing Detroit up in the first place? You brought up Detroit as "one of America's worst cities" and made specific mention of the black population and the demographics of police and elected officials. So... what exactly was your point?

[Abdullah the Butcher]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

The Gateway Pundit can now confirm from two local St. Louis sources that police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year-old Michael Brown. Officer Wilson clearly feared for his life during the incident that led to the shooting death of Brown. This was after Michael Brown and his accomplice Dorian Johnson robbed a local Ferguson convenience store.·

[Junior]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

The Gateway Pundit can now confirm from two local St. Louis sources that police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year-old Michael Brown. Officer Wilson clearly feared for his life during the incident that led to the shooting death of Brown. This was after Michael Brown and his accomplice Dorian Johnson robbed a local Ferguson convenience store.·

 

 

 

 

Jim Hoft is active in the Tea Party and was the associate producer of Hating Breitbart. He has a devotion to growing democracy and freedom movements everywhere, from inside Iran to the darkest corridors of the U.S. Capitol. His passion is liberty. His dedication is to a free America.

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/about/

 

Pardon me if I wait for an actual news report.

[tschu]

 

We can agree that it's a problem though right? I'm just guessing that you're not a fan of a 6% voter participation rate either...so what can be done to further participation? Because I also think we can agree that increasing the black involvement in the government is a positive.

 

I look at the low turnout rate as a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. So, I don't think the right approach is saying "how can we increase black voting participation?" In the end, we see civic participation when people take ownership of their communities - which historically has been a strength, not a weakness of blacks in this country.

 

 

It's both. It's both a symptom as well as something that directly contributes to the problem

[LukeinNE]

Then what was your point in bringing Detroit up in the first place? You brought up Detroit as "one of America's worst cities" and made specific mention of the black population and the demographics of police and elected officials. So... what exactly was your point?

 

Again: it's been said many times in this thread that the primary reason blacks have not advanced in this country is racial discrimination. I find it....hard to believe that blacks routinely face white discrimination in a city where the laws are made by a black city government and enforced by a mostly black police department. Many of the suggested remedies have been implemented in Detroit: more blacks in government, more black cops, more black teachers, and so on. According to the "racism is the dominate factor in holding blacks back" theory, these steps should have led to a dramatic closure of the gap between blacks and whites in the Detroit area. They haven't.

[Junior]

 

Then what was your point in bringing Detroit up in the first place? You brought up Detroit as "one of America's worst cities" and made specific mention of the black population and the demographics of police and elected officials. So... what exactly was your point?

 

Again: it's been said many times in this thread that the primary reason blacks have not advanced in this country is racial discrimination. I find it....hard to believe that blacks routinely face white discrimination in a city where the laws are made by a black city government and enforced by a mostly black police department. Many of the suggested remedies have been implemented in Detroit: more blacks in government, more black cops, more black teachers, and so on. According to the "racism is the dominate factor in holding blacks back" theory, these steps should have led to a dramatic closure of the gap between blacks and whites in the Detroit area. They haven't.

 

 

Assuming, of course, that there are jobs to be had. How can blacks advance if there are no jobs?? Having companies with black CEOs might help, etc. Again, you are looking at one thing and saying "there's a black mayor, therefore blacks should be rich". I know you think that isn't what you are saying... but it basically is. You are completely ignoring the influence of factors outside of the control of the city of Detroit.

[BigRedBuster]

You guys are so far off on why jobs aren't coming back to Detroit. It is a problem that stemmed from the extremely heavily unionized auto industry. It is common knowledge in industry that the Detroit work force still has an entitlement mentality and it is extremely difficult to do business there as a manufacturer because of it.

 

This has nothing to do with black or white. It has nothing to do with city management. The city of Detroit and the state of Michigan have spent literally millions of dollars to attract industry there and nobody wants to go. Why would you go there and immediately face workers who (even though they really need a job) feel they are entitled to much higher wages etc than what you can go many other places in the country and the workers are happy to see you?

 

Now, if you want to keep going down this rabbit trail, there is another thread here about that.

 

However, the much bigger question for me is since management in the city and the police force are mostly black like the population, does the black population feel threatened by the police like Ferguson? Are they arrested at much higher rates than whites? Are the prosecuted at a much higher rate than whites? These are the issues that is the main cause of the riots in Ferguson and it is in large part being blamed on the fact that not many black people are in city management.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Then what was your point in bringing Detroit up in the first place? You brought up Detroit as "one of America's worst cities" and made specific mention of the black population and the demographics of police and elected officials. So... what exactly was your point?

 

Again: it's been said many times in this thread that the primary reason blacks have not advanced in this country is racial discrimination. I find it....hard to believe that blacks routinely face white discrimination in a city where the laws are made by a black city government and enforced by a mostly black police department. Many of the suggested remedies have been implemented in Detroit: more blacks in government, more black cops, more black teachers, and so on. According to the "racism is the dominate factor in holding blacks back" theory, these steps should have led to a dramatic closure of the gap between blacks and whites in the Detroit area. They haven't.

 

 

Assuming, of course, that there are jobs to be had. How can blacks advance if there are no jobs?? Having companies with black CEOs might help, etc. Again, you are looking at one thing and saying "there's a black mayor, therefore blacks should be rich". I know you think that isn't what you are saying... but it basically is. You are completely ignoring the influence of factors outside of the control of the city of Detroit.

 

Where did he say that?

[Creighton Duke]

 

 

Then what was your point in bringing Detroit up in the first place? You brought up Detroit as "one of America's worst cities" and made specific mention of the black population and the demographics of police and elected officials. So... what exactly was your point?

 

Again: it's been said many times in this thread that the primary reason blacks have not advanced in this country is racial discrimination. I find it....hard to believe that blacks routinely face white discrimination in a city where the laws are made by a black city government and enforced by a mostly black police department. Many of the suggested remedies have been implemented in Detroit: more blacks in government, more black cops, more black teachers, and so on. According to the "racism is the dominate factor in holding blacks back" theory, these steps should have led to a dramatic closure of the gap between blacks and whites in the Detroit area. They haven't.

 

 

Assuming, of course, that there are jobs to be had. How can blacks advance if there are no jobs?? Having companies with black CEOs might help, etc. Again, you are looking at one thing and saying "there's a black mayor, therefore blacks should be rich". I know you think that isn't what you are saying... but it basically is. You are completely ignoring the influence of factors outside of the control of the city of Detroit.

 

Why are those factors out of the city's control? You made a tongue-in-cheek comment about companies not wanting to locate to the area due to the high Black population, yet many of these areas seem to be doing pretty well.

[Junior]

You guys are so far off on why jobs aren't coming back to Detroit. It is a problem that stemmed from the extremely heavily unionized auto industry. It is common knowledge in industry that the Detroit work force still has an entitlement mentality and it is extremely difficult to do business there as a manufacturer because of it.

 

This has nothing to do with black or white. It has nothing to do with city management. The city of Detroit and the state of Michigan have spent literally millions of dollars to attract industry there and nobody wants to go. Why would you go there and immediately face workers who (even though they really need a job) feel they are entitled to much higher wages etc than what you can go many other places in the country and the workers are happy to see you?

 

Now, if you want to keep going down this rabbit trail, there is another thread here about that.

 

However, the much bigger question for me is since management in the city and the police force are mostly black like the population, does the black population feel threatened by the police like Ferguson? Are they arrested at much higher rates than whites? Are the prosecuted at a much higher rate than whites? These are the issues that is the main cause of the riots in Ferguson and it is in large part being blamed on the fact that not many black people are in city management.

 

Agreed on all accounts.

 

There are a slew of reasons why Detroit has the problems they do. My irritation is with Luke's insistance that since there are black elected officials in Detroit, the black citizens should be doing as well as whites economically. You ask where he said that; read his various posts. That's the implication.

[Junior]

 

 

 

Then what was your point in bringing Detroit up in the first place? You brought up Detroit as "one of America's worst cities" and made specific mention of the black population and the demographics of police and elected officials. So... what exactly was your point?

 

Again: it's been said many times in this thread that the primary reason blacks have not advanced in this country is racial discrimination. I find it....hard to believe that blacks routinely face white discrimination in a city where the laws are made by a black city government and enforced by a mostly black police department. Many of the suggested remedies have been implemented in Detroit: more blacks in government, more black cops, more black teachers, and so on. According to the "racism is the dominate factor in holding blacks back" theory, these steps should have led to a dramatic closure of the gap between blacks and whites in the Detroit area. They haven't.

 

 

Assuming, of course, that there are jobs to be had. How can blacks advance if there are no jobs?? Having companies with black CEOs might help, etc. Again, you are looking at one thing and saying "there's a black mayor, therefore blacks should be rich". I know you think that isn't what you are saying... but it basically is. You are completely ignoring the influence of factors outside of the control of the city of Detroit.

 

Why are those factors out of the city's control? You made a tongue-in-cheek comment about companies not wanting to locate to the area due to the high Black population, yet many of these areas seem to be doing pretty well.

 

 

Is it the city of Detroit's fault that GM nearly ran itself into the ground, if not for federal intervention??

[Landlord]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LukeinNE]

There are a slew of reasons why Detroit has the problems they do. My irritation is with Luke's insistance that since there are black elected officials in Detroit, the black citizens should be doing as well as whites economically. You ask where he said that; read his various posts. That's the implication.

 

I haven't said or implied that either, if I did, it was purely accidental. My question is very simple, and narrow: discrimination against blacks has been cited as a major reason blacks can't advance in this country. Detroit has implemented many remedies to this alleged problem. I'll be even more specific for you: a good deal of this thread has focused on racism being responsible for the disparity in arrests between blacks and whites, as a direct result of white officers patrolling black neighborhoods. Has having a majority-black police force in Detroit made any difference in the arrest rate of blacks in that city?

[BigRedBuster]

 

You guys are so far off on why jobs aren't coming back to Detroit. It is a problem that stemmed from the extremely heavily unionized auto industry. It is common knowledge in industry that the Detroit work force still has an entitlement mentality and it is extremely difficult to do business there as a manufacturer because of it.

 

This has nothing to do with black or white. It has nothing to do with city management. The city of Detroit and the state of Michigan have spent literally millions of dollars to attract industry there and nobody wants to go. Why would you go there and immediately face workers who (even though they really need a job) feel they are entitled to much higher wages etc than what you can go many other places in the country and the workers are happy to see you?

 

Now, if you want to keep going down this rabbit trail, there is another thread here about that.

 

However, the much bigger question for me is since management in the city and the police force are mostly black like the population, does the black population feel threatened by the police like Ferguson? Are they arrested at much higher rates than whites? Are the prosecuted at a much higher rate than whites? These are the issues that is the main cause of the riots in Ferguson and it is in large part being blamed on the fact that not many black people are in city management.

 

Agreed on all accounts.

 

There are a slew of reasons why Detroit has the problems they do. My irritation is with Luke's insistance that since there are black elected officials in Detroit, the black citizens should be doing as well as whites economically. You ask where he said that; read his various posts. That's the implication.

 

You claimed he said, "Because there was a black mayer black people should be rich". Am I to assume this is simply an over exaggeration to make a point? Just because someone doesn't have discrimination against them doesn't mean they are rich. And, taking away discrimination alone is not going to make poor black people rich.

 

The original discussion was that city management in Ferguson is not black like the population so therefore, they are probably victims of more racism which manifests itself in more arrests, more police harassment, more convictions of petty crimes...etc.

 

The question I see Luke asking is...in Detroit, are these issues less? If so, why can't Ferguson do accomplish this?