What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

[tschu]

Their choice is not something that we need to swoop in and "fix."

 

We can agree that it's a problem though right? I'm just guessing that you're not a fan of a 6% voter participation rate either...so what can be done to further participation? Because I also think we can agree that increasing the black involvement in the government is a positive.

 

Now I never stated that I think we should move election years or that it was the solution; merely that the opposition to that article was a bit unwarranted. It certainly would drive more participation. Whether it's the right method for doing so is probably a moot point since we both know that changing the election year is highly unlikely to happen. But there has to be a way to drive greater participation in the government.

[Abdullah the Butcher]

 

Their choice is not something that we need to swoop in and "fix."

 

We can agree that it's a problem though right? I'm just guessing that you're not a fan of a 6% voter participation rate either...so what can be done to further participation? Because I also think we can agree that increasing the black involvement in the government is a positive.

 

Now I never stated that I think we should move election years or that it was the solution; merely that the opposition to that article was a bit unwarranted. It certainly would drive more participation. Whether it's the right method for doing so is probably a moot point since we both know that changing the election year is highly unlikely to happen. But there has to be a way to drive greater participation in the government.

If you don't vote you aren't eligible for social programs as a solution, I can guarantee you voting would increase. Even if it was just state elections minimum.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

 

Their choice is not something that we need to swoop in and "fix."

 

We can agree that it's a problem though right? I'm just guessing that you're not a fan of a 6% voter participation rate either...so what can be done to further participation? Because I also think we can agree that increasing the black involvement in the government is a positive.

 

Now I never stated that I think we should move election years or that it was the solution; merely that the opposition to that article was a bit unwarranted. It certainly would drive more participation. Whether it's the right method for doing so is probably a moot point since we both know that changing the election year is highly unlikely to happen. But there has to be a way to drive greater participation in the government.

 

 

Change the election day.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

 

So yes, you seem to recognize the problems, but then I still get pushback from you when I claim there are problems, which seems weird to me.

 

You probably get push back because you take the caricatured left-wing view that any and all discrepancies between whites and blacks simply must be due to white racism, whether explicit, implicit, or built into the system, and has nothing at all to do with failings within the black community. In fact, you've never expressed what you think blacks should be responsible for. Voting? It's totally free, it can be done in person, in the mail, on election day, usually a month + before election day - it is not hard to do. WaPo's numbers state that during the 2012 elections, blacks in Ferguson voted roughly at the same rate whites did. This demonstrates, beyond a doubt, that when they want to, blacks (in Ferguson, at least) can vote just as easily as whites can.

 

The rules did not change in between the 2012 and 2013 elections, but black participation dropped from 54% to 6%. There is only one reasonable explanation why black participation dropped so much: they didn't want to. That's not racism, that's black people in Ferguson choosing not to participate in our democratic process, which is their right. Their choice is not something that we need to swoop in and "fix." Honestly, when you speak of "problems" like this, I immediately envision the amorphous blob humans on WALL-E - incapable of anything without their floating chairs. We're being racially insensitive by bothering black people to vote more than once every four years? Bring out the hover chairs (government-funded, of course). This is about the most obvious example of the "soft bigotry of low expectations" you will ever get.

 

 

I'm curious what you attribute to the failings of the black community and who is to blame for their failings.

[Creighton Duke]

 

 

Their choice is not something that we need to swoop in and "fix."

 

We can agree that it's a problem though right? I'm just guessing that you're not a fan of a 6% voter participation rate either...so what can be done to further participation? Because I also think we can agree that increasing the black involvement in the government is a positive.

 

Now I never stated that I think we should move election years or that it was the solution; merely that the opposition to that article was a bit unwarranted. It certainly would drive more participation. Whether it's the right method for doing so is probably a moot point since we both know that changing the election year is highly unlikely to happen. But there has to be a way to drive greater participation in the government.

 

 

Change the election day.

 

on a

[LukeinNE]

We can agree that it's a problem though right? I'm just guessing that you're not a fan of a 6% voter participation rate either...so what can be done to further participation? Because I also think we can agree that increasing the black involvement in the government is a positive.

 

I look at the low turnout rate as a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. So, I don't think the right approach is saying "how can we increase black voting participation?" In the end, we see civic participation when people take ownership of their communities - which historically has been a strength, not a weakness of blacks in this country.

 

 

 

I'm curious what you attribute to the failings of the black community and who is to blame for their failings.

 

This is my initial post in this thread.

 

 

What immediately comes to mind (in no particular order and almost certainly not comprehensive):

-Overt racism/discrimination that still exists today

-The Drug War

-Too many welfare programs are anesthetics for economic pain, not treatments for the cause of that pain

-Legacy of slavery/Jim Crow

-Disdain by some black Americans for things that are too "white" - education, legitimate jobs

-Identity politics, committed by both sides to exploit racial tensions and promote favoritism in policy

-Racial and economic segregation

-Failure of schools in inner city areas

-No strong family culture within the black community

-Cultural decay leading to drug use, high teen pregnancy rates, violence.

-Ease of acquiring tools of destruction for the formerly mentioned things

 

I would define the bolded points as both very destructive to the black community, and a problem that is pretty much exclusively theirs to solve. Out of wedlock births, for example, is something that any sociologist will cite as a risk factor that leads to poverty, troubled kids, and so on. Black out of wedlock births were 24% in 1965. They are nearly 75% today. I'm....skeptical that the usual excuses (access to contraception, discrimination, sex ed) have somehow gotten worse for blacks since 1965.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

 

We can agree that it's a problem though right? I'm just guessing that you're not a fan of a 6% voter participation rate either...so what can be done to further participation? Because I also think we can agree that increasing the black involvement in the government is a positive.

 

I look at the low turnout rate as a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. So, I don't think the right approach is saying "how can we increase black voting participation?" In the end, we see civic participation when people take ownership of their communities - which historically has been a strength, not a weakness of blacks in this country.

 

 

 

I'm curious what you attribute to the failings of the black community and who is to blame for their failings.

 

This is my initial post in this thread.

 

 

What immediately comes to mind (in no particular order and almost certainly not comprehensive):

 

-Overt racism/discrimination that still exists today

-The Drug War

-Too many welfare programs are anesthetics for economic pain, not treatments for the cause of that pain

-Legacy of slavery/Jim Crow

-Disdain by some black Americans for things that are too "white" - education, legitimate jobs

-Identity politics, committed by both sides to exploit racial tensions and promote favoritism in policy

-Racial and economic segregation

-Failure of schools in inner city areas

-No strong family culture within the black community

-Cultural decay leading to drug use, high teen pregnancy rates, violence.

-Ease of acquiring tools of destruction for the formerly mentioned things

 

I would define the bolded points as both very destructive to the black community, and a problem that is pretty much exclusively theirs to solve. Out of wedlock births, for example, is something that any sociologist will cite as a risk factor that leads to poverty, troubled kids, and so on. Black out of wedlock births were 24% in 1965. They are nearly 75% today. I'm....skeptical that the usual excuses (access to contraception, discrimination, sex ed) have somehow gotten worse for blacks since 1965.

 

 

How many of those can be tied to an overall problem of discrimination in nearly every aspect of life?

 

And if you think that the black community doesn't have a strong family culture....

[BigRedBuster]

An interesting tweet.

 

Retweeted by Kyler Reed

Lecrae @lecrae · 13h

Dear Hip Hop, we can't scream "murder, misogyny, lawlessness" in our music & then turn around and ask for equality & justice.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

I was watching CNN this morning while getting ready for work. They were interviewing the lawyer for the Brown family.

 

The interviewer asked him about the problems last night and explained that there are growing feelings that the people in the protests who are causing lots of problems of starting fires or throwing rocks or molotov cocktails are not from Ferguson. They are outsiders who have come in specifically to cause problems.

 

The lawyer (who was black) agreed and said he saw it happen with his own eyes. Last night he was on the set with one of the news crews and the protests were peaceful, the people were obeying the cops and the cops had no problems with the people. Then, he said as the sun went down in the evening, an entirely different crowd came in (he claimed they were not from Ferguson) and started throwing rocks and other stuff at the cops trying to insight violence with them. That is when things got nasty again and many people were arrested.

 

If this is all true, there is an element here that is totally different than what has been previously discussed.

[Junior]

I thought this was an interesting piece. No idea who the writer is, but someone posted it on the Facebook and I liked it.

 

http://manicpixiedreammama.com/a-mothers-white-privilege/

 

 

I have three sons, two years between each. They are various shades of blond, various shades of pinkish-white, and will probably end up dressing in polo shirts and button downs most of the time. Their eyes are blue and green. Basically, I’m raising the physical embodiment of The Man, times three. The White is strong in these ones.

 

Clerks do not follow my sons around the store, presuming they might steal something.

 

Their normal kid stuff – tantrums, running, shouting – these are chalked up to being children, not to being non-white.

 

People do not assume that, with three children, I am scheming to cheat the welfare system.

 

When I wrap them on my back, no one thinks I’m going native, or that I must be from somewhere else.

 

When my sons are teenagers, I will not worry about them leaving the house. I will worry – that they’ll crash the car, or impregnate a girl, or engage in the same stupidness endemic to teenagers everywhere.

 

I will not worry that the police will shoot them.

 

If their car breaks down, I will not worry that people they ask for help will call the police, who will shoot them.

 

I will not worry that people will mistake a toy pistol for a real one andgun them down in the local Wal-Mart.

 

In fact, if my sons so desire, they will be able to carry firearms openly.Perhaps in Chipotle or Target.

 

They will walk together, all three, through our suburban neighborhood. People will think, Look at those kids out for a walk. They will not think, Look at those punks casing the joint.

 

People will assume they are intelligent. No one will say they are “well-spoken” when they break out SAT words. Women will not cross the street when they see them. Nor will they clutch their purses tighter.

 

My sons will never be mistaken for stealing their own cars, orentering their own houses.

[Junior]

 

An interesting tweet.

 

Retweeted by Kyler Reed

Lecrae @lecrae · 13h

Dear Hip Hop, we can't scream "murder, misogyny, lawlessness" in our music & then turn around and ask for equality & justice.

 

 

 

 

While there is some slight merit to his statement, a lot of non-whites listen to rap and hip hop too. Whether I listen to Dylan or Snoop Dogg, it should have no bearing on my ability to walk down the street and not get shot.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

An interesting tweet.

 

Retweeted by Kyler Reed

Lecrae @lecrae · 13h

Dear Hip Hop, we can't scream "murder, misogyny, lawlessness" in our music & then turn around and ask for equality & justice.

 

 

 

 

While there is some slight merit to his statement, a lot of non-whites listen to rap and hip hop too. Whether I listen to Dylan or Snoop Dogg, it should have no bearing on my ability to walk down the street and not get shot.

 

I don't believe that is what either of these two are saying.

[LukeinNE]

How many of those can be tied to an overall problem of discrimination in nearly every aspect of life?

Malcolm X and other black separatists ascribed to much this same line of thought: blacks could not and would not advance in a society dominated by white people. That white discrimination simply made this impossible. Therefore, they said, it is desirable for blacks to be separate to the greatest extent possible from the rest of the American community. Malcolm X's dream has come to pass in the form of Detroit: 80% black, 10% white, the city council has 1 white member (out of 9). Detroit just elected its first non-black mayor in 20 years. Detroit's police chief is black. Detroit's police force is 2/3 black. Black people run most everything of importance in Detroit. It is inconceivable that black residents in Detroit face "discrimination in nearly every aspect of life." Many of the things that social justice warriors have called for as fixes to the plight of black people in this country have been implemented in Detroit - and Detroit is now one of America's worst cities. In order to make the case that discrimination is the main cause of black failings, one must explain Detroit.

 

And if you think that the black community doesn't have a strong family culture....

 

 

Strong family culture as evidenced by what? The 70%+ out of wedlock birth rate? The highest percentage - by far - of fathers not living with their kids among all races? The lowest marriage rate among all races? The highest divorce rate among those who do get married?

[Junior]

 

How many of those can be tied to an overall problem of discrimination in nearly every aspect of life?

Malcolm X and other black separatists ascribed to much this same line of thought: blacks could not and would not advance in a society dominated by white people. That white discrimination simply made this impossible. Therefore, they said, it is desirable for blacks to be separate to the greatest extent possible from the rest of the American community. Malcolm X's dream has come to pass in the form of Detroit: 80% black, 10% white, the city council has 1 white member (out of 9). Detroit just elected its first non-black mayor in 20 years. Detroit's police chief is black. Detroit's police force is 2/3 black. Black people run most everything of importance in Detroit. It is inconceivable that black residents in Detroit face "discrimination in nearly every aspect of life." Many of the things that social justice warriors have called for as fixes to the plight of black people in this country have been implemented in Detroit - and Detroit is now one of America's worst cities. In order to make the case that discrimination is the main cause of black failings, one must explain Detroit.

 

And if you think that the black community doesn't have a strong family culture....

 

 

Strong family culture as evidenced by what? The 70%+ out of wedlock birth rate? The highest percentage - by far - of fathers not living with their kids among all races? The lowest marriage rate among all races? The highest divorce rate among those who do get married?

 

 

 

Being married makes you magically a better parent?

 

So what are you implying about Detroit? Because I can easily explain the problems in Detroit without invoking race... But you seem to have an idea in your head about it and I'm curious as to exactly what that is.

[LukeinNE]

Being married makes you magically a better parent?

It makes you more likely to be present and active in the home, which, yes, indeed does make you a better parent.

 

So what are you implying about Detroit? Because I can easily explain the problems in Detroit without invoking race... But you seem to have an idea in your head about it and I'm curious as to exactly what that is.

 

The case has been made in this thread, implicitly and explicitly, that the main reason for blacks not advancing in America is pervasive racism and discrimination. I'm wondering how such discrimination could be taking place in Detroit when blacks run the show there. In short, I'm not implying anything about Detroit. I'm citing Detroit as an example where the effects of white racism should be at its nadir, considering they've been largely removed from the city's levers of power and police force....and yet blacks haven't prospered there, either. My implication is that white discrimination is a convenient, but grossly overblown scapegoat for the problems that plague blacks in this country.