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Boehner

BigRedBuster

By BigRedBuster,
in Politics & Religion

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

Posted
Posted

And we don't need term limits why???

Good grief - I apologize for anything I've said against the Clinton Foundation (well not really but lets just say EVERYONE IS PAYING TO PLAY IN DC :steam )

 

 

This quote just boggles the mind. The corruption is mind blowing.

 

quote:

In Congress, Boehner was known for his strong alliances with the lobbying community. In 1995, Boehner was caught distributing campaign checks from the tobacco industry on the House floor to members to influence a vote on tobacco legislation. In 2006, the Washington Post revealed that Boehner lived in an apartment on Capitol Hill rented to him by a lobbyist who did business with his committee. As Republican leader, he was known for scheduling votes around fundraising events, including one incident in which Boehner interrupted House proceedings so he could attend a lobbyist-fueled bash called the “Boehner Beach Party.”

Boehner’s closeness with the lobbying industry was a big part of how he moved up the leadership ladder within the GOP. For years, he convened a “Thursday Group” to huddle with representatives of the largest corporations in America to discuss strategy and to fundraise for his party.

Boehner’s retirement from the House was met by speculation in the political press that he was done with politics and more interested in sipping wine and mowing the lawn. But in reality, he’ll still be a major political player, finally getting the role he’s auditioned for over the course of three decades in elected office.

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

Posted
Posted

We have citizenry that vote for politicians so they can feed off the gov't pig troth (citizens - the ones gaming the system, also includes but the wealthy, industry, etc) and we have politicians who eat from the same troth for their own greedy end. While the 'normal' citizen who works hard, doesn't take govt handouts unless absolutely needed (job layoffs and disabilities happen to the good hearted citizens who won't game the system as well) is stuck wt the ever increasing tax bill.

 

Time to end this merry-go-round in DC. This going from congress to lobbyist routine needs to stop. :boxosoap

 

I think this applies:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler

 

  • A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.
    • The earliest known attribution of this quote was December 9, 1951, in what appears to be an op-ed piece in The Daily Oklahoman under the byline Elmer T. Peterson, Elmer T. Peterson (9 December 1951). "This is the Hard Core of Freedom". Daily Oklahoman: p. 12A. . The quote has not been found in Tytler's work. It has also been attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville.
    • There are many variants circulating with various permutations of majority, voters, citizens, or public. Ronald Reagan is known to have used this in speeches, as reported in Loren Collins, "The Truth About Tytler":
    • Other variants:
      The American Republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money.
      The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
  • The historical cycle seems to be: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to apathy, from apathy to dependency; and from dependency back to bondage once more.
  • This quotation was actually by Henning Webb Prentis, president of the Armstrong Cork Company and former president of the National Association of Manufacturers, in a February 1943 address entitled "The Cult of Competency" delivered at a Mid-Year Convocation of the General Alumni Society of the University of Pennsylvania (The General Magazine and Historical Chronicle, Vol. XLV, Numb. III, April 1943, pp. 272-73).
  • This quotation sometimes appears joined with the above one, most notably as part of a longer piece which began circulating on the Internet shortly after the 2000 U.S. Presidential Election ("The Fall of the Athenian Republic," Urban Legends Reference Pages):
A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
  • From bondage to spiritual faith;
  • From spiritual faith to great courage;
  • From courage to liberty;
  • From liberty to abundance;
  • From abundance to complacency;
  • From complacency to apathy;
  • From apathy to dependence;
  • From dependence back into bondage
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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

Posted
Posted

Spiritual faith has no place in that quote. Democracy is not a religion, and works best when separated from religion.

Knapp, while I agree that democracy is not a religion and is for all people, religious or not, I and these others below disagree wt your last statement that it works best separated from religion. I would agree - separated from religious zealots who would want to turn the country into a theocracy (regardless if it is Islam, Christian, Jewish, or Flying Meatballs) but the influence of religion on democracy's moral perspective & character is another story. The statement also ignores how religious faith renewed the nation in difficult times - the revivals of the 1700s beginning wt the Great Awakening had a profound affect on the nation and these revivals continued even through last century as noted in the link below. Granted it is more difficult for a local revival to grow and affect a larger and more diverse population that we now have however the influence of spiritual life on our democracy's vitality is without question.

 

http://patrickmorley.com/blog/2015/6/23/a-brief-history-of-spiritual-revival-and-awakening-in-America

 

Here is what a few good men had to say about democracy and religious/moral life:

http://www.westillholdthesetruths.org/quotes/category/religion-and-morality

 

George Washington Farewell Address
Date: September 19, 1796
Of all the dispositions and habits which least to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indespensible supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness - these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in the Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the opposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
John Adams Address to First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts
Date: October 11, 1798

 

 

Noah Webster History of the United States
Date: Unknown

 

George Washington letter to Thomas Nelson
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: August 20, 1778

 

Thomas Jefferson Sheridan, Liberty and Virtue
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: Unknown
John Adams To the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts
Date: October 11, 1798
But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation while it is practicing iniquity and extravagance and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candor, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world; because we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

 

 

Thomas Jefferson To James Fishback
Date: Unknown

 

The link has many other quotes

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knapplc Legend

knapplc

Posted
Posted

No.

 

Religious zealots will, inevitably, promote religion as part of every facet of their lives. That's the nature of the religious.

I have no problem with people exercising their religion. The inevitable problem with combining religion and government is the exclusion of those who do not believe what you believe. A Christian government in America excludes every other religion and every irreligious person.

 

We have only to look at the persecution of Christians in the Middle East by Islamic governments/zealots to see this is true. We have only to look at Donald Trump's stated intention to deport Muslims to see this is true.

 

Religion requires subjugation, whether that be to "god" or to the "church" as the god's representative. Granted that power, inevitably there will be corruption.

 

Combine corruption with religious zealotry and you have a portion of the population without a voice, and that is not a Democracy.

 

A Democracy is not Christian, and CAN NOT be. It must be non-theistic, non-partisan, encompassing and accepting. If it is not, if it grants favor to any body, whether that be religious or atheistic or liberal or conservative, it silences other voices.

 

That is the antithesis of Democracy.

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

Posted
Posted

Knapp, calm down, did you not read what I said? Or maybe you didn't understand - if that is the case I will take the blame for not communicating clearly.

 

Quote: Knapp, while I agree that democracy is not a religion and is for all people, religious or not, I and these others below disagree wt your last statement that it works best separated from religion. I would agree - separated from religious zealots who would want to turn the country into a theocracy (regardless if it is Islam, Christian, Jewish, or Flying Meatballs) but the influence of religion on democracy's moral perspective & character is another story.

 

Or maybe you misunderstood what I was saying: I agree 1000% - no theocracy. Democracy means a govt by all people for all people. What I'm talking about is the spiritual formation of morals and its positive affect on gov't and society in general. I am not talking about a particular religion formally leading our govt (as in the case you site in the Mideast where yes Christians are being persecuted badly) Obviously if 98% of the population was atheist, or Catholic, or whatever the democracy's laws will most likely reflect those majority belief systems. However, for it to be a democracy for all people, it must protect the rights of the minority.

 

Those founding fathers that I quoted were basically saying that democracy works best among a moral people. If you get good morals from the Flying Spaghetti Meatball than so be it. If good morals come from your religious traditions and upbringing than so be it. Democracy won't work with a primary selfish, immoral people. Only a totalitarian can rule over such people and keep societal order. --- And that is my fear wt Trump - could he become our version of a totalitarian?

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

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Posted

I fully understood what you were saying, before & now. There's no need to be condescending.

Sorry, didn't mean to come across that way if that is how it sounded please excuse my tone. We both agree - no religious 'democracy' because that in the end won't be a democracy. Maybe you were saying the same thing and I took it wrong.

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cm husker Starter

cm husker

Posted
Posted

And we don't need term limits why???

Good grief - I apologize for anything I've said against the Clinton Foundation (well not really but lets just say EVERYONE IS PAYING TO PLAY IN DC :steam )

 

 

This quote just boggles the mind. The corruption is mind blowing.

 

quote:

In Congress, Boehner was known for his strong alliances with the lobbying community. In 1995, Boehner was caught distributing campaign checks from the tobacco industry on the House floor to members to influence a vote on tobacco legislation. In 2006, the Washington Post revealed that Boehner lived in an apartment on Capitol Hill rented to him by a lobbyist who did business with his committee. As Republican leader, he was known for scheduling votes around fundraising events, including one incident in which Boehner interrupted House proceedings so he could attend a lobbyist-fueled bash called the Boehner Beach Party.

Boehners closeness with the lobbying industry was a big part of how he moved up the leadership ladder within the GOP. For years, he convened a Thursday Group to huddle with representatives of the largest corporations in America to discuss strategy and to fundraise for his party.

Boehners retirement from the House was met by speculation in the political press that he was done with politics and more interested in sipping wine and mowing the lawn. But in reality, hell still be a major political player, finally getting the role hes auditioned for over the course of three decades in elected office.

Term limits would only exasperate the problem becuase people would get in and behave only with the incentive of "cashing out" later.

 

What we need to do is disempower congress so there's less incentive and need for companies to leverage lobbyists.

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