'Mansplaining'

[B.B. Hemingway]

7 minutes ago, teachercd said:

I once was teaching middle schoolers and I asked what some of the kids did over the weekend...one girl raised her hand and said "me and my friends went N-bomb knocking" 

 

Is that like cow-tipping?

[B.B. Hemingway]

13 minutes ago, Kiyoat Husker said:

 

This is an interesting point.  I think one of the reasons we have a hard time understanding why some black people use that word, is that there is not an equivocally demeaning word for white people.  I can't think of a time in our (white american) history when we, as a group, have been similarly humiliated, marginalized, and dehumanized based on our race.

 

So words like "cracker" and "honkey" don't carry the same weight.

 

I guess an equivalent might be girls jovially calling each other "bitches".  Its about owning the word to take away its power over them.  Again, words matter.  Words have power.

 

I guess that's the point we are arguing.  You take the stance that people shoudn't get so offended by certain words.  I would argue that the words you think are harmless are actually very powerful to people who have been marginalized.  When words are attached to things like slavery or male-domination over women, for example.

 

"Owing the word", and "taking away it's power" have always seemed like bogus excuses to me. If the word carries so much pain within your race why would you want to call each other that? It's okay to call it hypocritical..... 

 

The world would like us to believe we can't be critical of the formerly marginalized, but we can. It's okay.

[teachercd]

12 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Is that like cow-tipping?

It is apparently what she called "Ding Dong Ditch"

[Kiyoat Husker]

9 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

The world would like us to believe we can't be critical of the marginalized, but we can. It's okay.

 

Sure, as long as you do it in a non-ignorant way.

 

White people in South Dakota tend to shake our heads at the Indians plight, explaining to each other that "all they need to do is stop drinking so much and get jobs!"  Easy as that.  It tends to minimize all the terrible things that have been done to them as a people that has led to their current predicament.

 

 It glosses over the long history of wrongs that has taken away their language, culture, way of life and identity.  It also ignores the fact that their metabolisms are very different than europeans, making them extremely prone to obesity, diabetes and alcoholism.  Being an alcoholic makes it hard to stop drinking.  Growing up amongst poverty, crime, drugs and abuse makes it difficult (not impossible) to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" and succeed in life.

 

But none of that stops us from making easy assumptions and judgements based on our few observations of them.

[B.B. Hemingway]

20 minutes ago, Kiyoat Husker said:

 

Sure, as long as you do it in a non-ignorant way.

 

White people in South Dakota tend to shake our heads at the Indians plight, explaining to each other that "all they need to do is stop drinking so much and get jobs!"  Easy as that.  It tends to minimize all the terrible things that have been done to them as a people that has led to their current predicament.

 

 It glosses over the long history of wrongs that has taken away their language, culture, way of life and identity.  It also ignores the fact that their metabolisms are very different than europeans, making them extremely prone to obesity, diabetes and alcoholism.  Being an alcoholic makes it hard to stop drinking.  Growing up amongst poverty, crime, drugs and abuse makes it difficult (not impossible) to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" and succeed in life.

 

But none of that stops us from making easy assumptions and judgements based on our few observations of them.

 

The government has attempted to make it right with them (as right as they can anyways). There are a lot of Indians in my area (Missouri, real close to the Oklahoma border), and they get free healthcare, free housing and monthly checks from the government (size of checks depending on percentage of Native-American in your blood). That's a pretty damn good attempt at making things right, in my opinion.

 

You know, there are white communities that struggle with poverty, and drug abuse as well. However, there's not much sympathy there, from the sympathizing types. They're expected take their white privilege, and turn it into a decent life (It's so easy!) 

 

Now, I don't sympathize much with the aboved mentioned white people, and I don't sympathize much with the minorities. Not everyone faces the same kinds of struggles, but I am a believer that you are a product of your own decisions. People mock the "bootstrap" cliche, and while it is overused, there is some truth in it.

[Kiyoat Husker]

11 minutes ago, teachercd said:

It is apparently what she called "Ding Dong Ditch"

 

I thought N@@@er Knocking was just word-play from the original Knicker Knocking.  Turns out i was wrong:

 

http://www.academia.edu/17138480/Ding_Dong_Ditch_and_the_History_of_Nigger_Knocking

 

my cut and paste didn't work from this site:  here's a summary:

 

- during slavery, overseers were sometimes called "Paddy Row Knockers" and beat errant slaves that were caught out-of-bounds during work.

- "Nigga' Knocking" was an activity that used a similar title.  It was when the "White night riders" (later called the KKK) would ride through the black part of town at night, going door-to-door.  Whoever answered the door would be attacked and sometimes lynched.

- Many black families moved north with memories of being terrorized in this way.

- Somehow this led to Black children and teenagers terrorizing their neighbors on Halloween by knocking on doors and pranking those that answered with eggs, hitting them with socks filled with chalk, etc.

- This is basically a case of the victim becoming the victimizer. (over generations)

 

this author goes into a lot of detail on what he and his friends used to do that they called "N!gga knocking"  

 

[teachercd]

3 minutes ago, Kiyoat Husker said:

 

I thought N@@@er Knocking was just word-play from the original Knicker Knocking.  Turns out i was wrong:

 

http://www.academia.edu/17138480/Ding_Dong_Ditch_and_the_History_of_Nigger_Knocking

 

my cut and paste didn't work from this site:  here's a summary:

 

- during slavery, overseers were sometimes called "Paddy Row Knockers" and beat errant slaves that were caught out-of-bounds during work.

- "Nigga' Knocking" was an activity that used a similar title.  It was when the "White night riders" (later called the KKK) would ride through the black part of town at night, going door-to-door.  Whoever answered the door would be attacked and sometimes lynched.

- Many black families moved north with memories of being terrorized in this way.

- Somehow this led to Black children and teenagers terrorizing their neighbors on Halloween by knocking on doors and pranking those that answered with eggs, hitting them with socks filled with chalk, etc.

- This is basically a case of the victim becoming the victimizer. (over generations)

 

this author goes into a lot of detail on what he and his friends used to do that they called "N!gga knocking"  

 

Yeah, when she said it, to me and the class, I just said "Yeah...there are probably better names for that game" 

 

I also didn't know the entire history of it, crazy!

[Kiyoat Husker]

19 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

The government has attempted to make it right with them [...] they get free healthcare, and monthly checks from the government [...] That's a pretty damn good attempt at making things right, in my opinion.

 

 I strongly disagree.  My point was not about "making things right" anyway.  It was about discrimination.  That is more about me than about them.  Trying to understand their history and culture, rather than dismissing them out-of-hand is what I am talking about.

 

Quote

You know, there are white communities that struggle with poverty, and drug abuse as well. However, there's not much sympathy there, from the sympathizing types. [...]

 

I believe that is what you would call a "straw-man" argument?  I never said whites were excluded from "marginalized groups"  "poor people" would certainly qualify as a marginalized and stereotyped group.  I certainly have empathy for them, for many of the same reasons.  Growing up in poverty puts you behind the 8-ball in life.  You have few of the tools needed to succeed, and deserve support.  As a conservative this is maybe a hypocritical example?  I don't want to make that assumption about you, though.

 

Quote

[...] People mock the "bootstrap" cliche, and while it is overused, there is some truth in it.

 

Yes, there is some truth in it.  personal responsibility is definitely important.  Most people that use the "bootstrap" cliche have very little understanding of why people become poor, stay poor, or what the effective ways to help them are.  They are content to criticize them and cite some version of "social darwinism".

[B.B. Hemingway]

What was hypocritical about my statement?

[teachercd]

1 hour ago, Kiyoat Husker said:

 

 I strongly disagree.  My point was not about "making things right" anyway.  It was about discrimination.  That is more about me than about them.  Trying to understand their history and culture, rather than dismissing them out-of-hand is what I am talking about.

 

 

I believe that is what you would call a "straw-man" argument?  I never said whites were excluded from "marginalized groups"  "poor people" would certainly qualify as a marginalized and stereotyped group.  I certainly have empathy for them, for many of the same reasons.  Growing up in poverty puts you behind the 8-ball in life.  You have few of the tools needed to succeed, and deserve support.  As a conservative this is maybe a hypocritical example?  I don't want to make that assumption about you, though.

 

 

Yes, there is some truth in it.  personal responsibility is definitely important.  Most people that use the "bootstrap" cliche have very little understanding of why people become poor, stay poor, or what the effective ways to help them are.  They are content to criticize them and cite some version of "social darwinism".

There are professors from other countries (probably some here too) that list the colonists vs natives as the longest running war in history.  I thought that was interesting.

[knapplc]

Maybe this has been covered in this thread and if so, please excuse me, but in the term "mansplaining," who is doing the bad thing?

[Moiraine]

8 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Maybe this has been covered in this thread and if so, please excuse me, but in the term "mansplaining," who is doing the bad thing?

 

 

It's a man assuming a woman is ignorant based solely on the fact that she's a woman, and then explaining the topic to her condescendingly.

 

The condescending one is the man, so the man's doing the bad thing.

 

People who use the term "mansplain" any time a guy opens his mouth are also doing the bad thing.

[knapplc]

I just wanted to be sure.  To be clear, are all men guilty of this?

[teachercd]

Knapp...you just got "womansplained" about mansplaining...
 

[Moiraine]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I just wanted to be sure.  To be clear, are all men guilty of this?

 

 

 

Have all men done it at least once in their lives? Maybe. All women have probably done the same thing to a man at least once in their lives.

 

If you're asking if all men are regularly guilty of this, it should be obvious from reading through the posts that no one posting in this topic thinks that.

 

 

2 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Knapp...you just got "womansplained" about mansplaining...
 

 

 

Did not. Heh. But I edited it like 5 times so no one would make that damn joke.