'Mansplaining'

[Landlord]

zoogs said that in response to you, not moiraine  

 

 

regardless there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with that to me. just seems like conversation to me, he's letting you know that what mansplaining actually is has the power dynamic between genders embedded in the idea (it's not just "______ condescends to ______", but is very specifically related to the cultural presumption that women know less than men), that the other terms aren't talking about the same thing and are just a distraction from the actual thing that mansplaining is, and encouraged you to read up on it.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, Landlord said:

zoogs said that in response to you, not moiraine  

 

 

That's a strange response.

 

All I said was...."I've never heard of these terms"....and listed them.  I took the terms from the OP which (like I said) hadn't jumped in the middle of any discussion about mansplaining.

 

[Landlord]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

That's a strange response.

 

All I said was...."I've never heard of these terms"....and listed them.  I took the terms from the OP which (like I said) hadn't jumped in the middle of any discussion about mansplaining.

 

 

 

 

And his response was basically, "well one of them is something that's gotten a lot of press lately, and something that I think is at least somewhat important to understand properly - the others are mostly silly, irrelevant responses to that. look into it"

[BigRedBuster]

So.........in other words.....

 

It's just silly ever talking about black racism against white because....that's just silly.

 

It's just silly ever talking about men being abused by women because...that's just silly.

 

Those are true no matter if I'm jumping in the middle of a conversation about the opposite or not.  We should just never talk about it.

[Landlord]

no. nothing like that. 

[zoogs]

Yes, Landlord's response from an hour ago is what I was saying exactly. There's a reason for this term, which is widely known and captures something worth contemplating -- for everyone. The other terms are reactionary ones that sprouted up in an attempt to dilute the meaning of the first. 

 

This isn't a commentary on you in any way. If you're unfamiliar with this conversation, it was an introduction to it. On the one side we have an observation. And on the other, as is *exceedingly common* when it comes to [_____] issues and attempts to formalize or raise awareness around them, is "What about this other thing that's the same but in reverse"; ergo "your issue isn't worth highlighting because it's the same all the way around." I'm not sure what you're trying to say in that last post, BRB, but I guess yeah, "womansplaining also" and "oh, it's just ungendered douchesplaining and that's the correct way to look at it" are exactly like "why can't we talk about black racism against whites" and "what about women who abuse men".

 

Because this is the internet and further because it is a football fan forum, it's in many ways completely hostile territory for talk about feminism. So often, any attempts to introduce these ideas into conversation will get qualified with "Hey, don't dismiss me, I'm not one of those crazy feminazis", or "All this feminist talk is used unfairly to men 80% of the time but here's this small way in which I hope you'll agree it makes sense", etc. I have a somewhat different view, which is that there need be absolutely no qualifications. 

 

We are all grounded in a discourse that largely excludes women's voices (except where they conform) and so our habits and defaults are similar; we needn't continue to be tethered to it, and to do so requires greater exposure. And a checking of our tendency to get into the defensive what-about-... shell.

[Landlord]

Anecdotally, here on huskerboard, think about  @girlknowsfootball. Have never in my time here been like "lol that's a weird and unnecessary username"

 

Would certainly be odd if there was a poster named manknowsfootball  

[Moiraine]

52 minutes ago, zoogs said:

Because this is the internet and further because it is a football fan forum, it's in many ways completely hostile territory for talk about feminism. So often, any attempts to introduce these ideas into conversation will get qualified with "Hey, don't dismiss me, I'm not one of those crazy feminazis", or "All this feminist talk is used unfairly to men 80% of the time but here's this small way in which I hope you'll agree it makes sense", etc. I have a somewhat different view, which is that there need be absolutely no qualifications.

 

I would say most areas in all aspects of life are hostile territory for talk about feminism. "Feminism" is a bad word, period. Loads of people don't even know what the hell the word means. Here it is:

 

The doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

Pretty much all other fights for equality are less frowned upon than feminism. In a way I can see why - many people, including women, think everything is already equal and anyone talking about it is just whining. Either that or they don't think it needs to be equal. I know multiple female Christians who feel this way. I don't generally post or talk about feminism but I see their posts. What I don't get is why they can't be subservient to their husband if that's what they've decided in their marriage but still be okay with equality for women in other aspects of their life.

 

 

Now that being said, I don't feel Huskerboard is a hostile environment for women to talk about anything else. I've had maybe 3 incidents where I thought someone was talking down to me or arguing with me only because I was female, and those were all Dewiz. There have been other posts where people were saying something that was more of a social norm that I saw as being interesting when it comes to this topic but that is usually subconscious when they do it. That's pretty rare too though. Sometimes when someone calls a guy a c***sucker I kinda wonder what subconscious effect that has on people growing up. People aren't thinking "I'm gonna say this word 'cause it means you're a girl because that's what girls do and that's a bad thing!" when they say it. But... that's what the term means. It's the same as calling someone gay as a diss. If things were equal people would call each other c**tlickers just as often. Licking c**t means a man got laid. Sucking c*** is seen as demeaning.

 

I hope Elaida doesn't reply to this.

[B.B. Hemingway]

4 hours ago, RedDenver said:

I see what you're getting at, but zoogs's point is about the terminology not about whether men or women can talk down to each other.

 

Sure, but it happens both ways. Hell, how many commericals do you see with the man playing the "dumb-dumb husband" as opposed to his "normal" female counterpart? It's like a reversal from how they portrayed women in the 50's/60's.

 

Edit: And I'm not complaining, because I couldn't care less about it. Just pointing out a truth.

[B.B. Hemingway]

4 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

I would say most areas in all aspects of life are hostile territory for talk about feminism. "Feminism" is a bad word, period. Loads of people don't even know what the hell the word means. Here it is:

 

The doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

Pretty much all other fights for equality are less frowned upon than feminism. In a way I can see why - many people, including women, think everything is already equal and anyone talking about it is just whining. Either that or they don't think it needs to be equal. I know multiple female Christians who feel this way. I don't generally post or talk about feminism but I see their posts. What I don't get is why they can't be subservient to their husband if that's what they've decided in their marriage but still be okay with equality for women in other aspects of their life.

 

 

Now that being said, I don't feel Huskerboard is a hostile environment for women to talk about anything else. I've had maybe 3 incidents where I thought someone was talking down to me or arguing with me only because I was female, and those were all Dewiz. There have been other posts where people were saying something that was more of a social norm that I saw as being interesting when it comes to this topic but that is usually subconscious when they do it. That's pretty rare too though. Sometimes when someone calls a guy a c***sucker I kinda wonder what subconscious effect that has on people growing up. People aren't thinking "I'm gonna say this word 'cause it means you're a girl because that's what girls do and that's a bad thing!" when they say it. But... that's what the term means. It's the same as calling someone gay as a diss. If things were equal people would call each other c**tlickers just as often. Licking c**t means a man got laid. Sucking c*** is seen as demeaning.

 

I hope Elaida doesn't reply to this.

 

Does it really matter who is calling who a c***sucker, and how anybody really feels about it? I've half-jokingly said before that stuff that this is the greatest evidence of equality. If this is the s#!t we're worried about, then it's going pretty well for everybody.

[Moiraine]

6 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Sure, but it happens both ways. Hell, how many commericals do you see with the man playing the "dumb-dumb husband" as opposed to his "normal" female counterpart? It's like a reversal from how they portrayed women in the 50's/60's.

 

Edit: And I'm not complaining, because I couldn't care less about it. Just pointing out a truth.

 

 

 

Not nearly as often as see women in ads where they're trying to show how easy the product is to use. This can be anything from yard work, to power tools, to creating a website.

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

Not nearly as often as see women in ads where they're trying to show how easy the product is to use. This can be anything from yard work, to power tools, to creating a website.

 

Oh, without seeing the numbers (I doubt there are any), I'd have to disagree with you on that.

[Moiraine]

4 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Does it really matter who is calling who a c***sucker, and how anybody really feels about it? I've half-jokingly said before that stuff that this is the greatest evidence of equality. If this is the s#!t we're worried about, then it's going pretty well for everybody.

 

 

Do you really think this is the only kind of "s#!t" women face today?

It's an example of subconscious stuff that happens every single day that people don't even think about, but it's there. That kind of stuff is much harder to see, especially if you aren't someone who faces it.

 

I'm not a psychologist, so I don't know whether it matters or how much it matters.

[B.B. Hemingway]

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Do you really think this is the only problem facing women today?

It's an example of subconscious stuff that happens every single day that people don't even think about, but it's there. That kind of stuff is much harder to see, especially if you aren't someone who faces it.

 

Of course not, that's why I say it "half-jokingly". 

 

I have two daughters of my own, so I don't take lightly what struggles they might meet in society. I just think that the subconscious stuff, and the impact of it is a bunch of bulls#!t, to be honest.

[Moiraine]

Something as simple as looking into the effect that ads or TV programming have on people subconsciously, people who think they're invulnerable to that bulls#!t, should be enough to make you consider that there is an impact of things like that.

zoogs kinda covered it with the picture he showed, but we grow up in a society where women are called bitches for the things men are praised for doing. My example may have been a little silly compared to that but I don't think it's nothing. I can't think of an example for males.


We're not even close to the point where that's the only problem. So I don't get the joke.