Did Bill Callahan sabotage the 2004 season?

[JJ Husker]

4 minutes ago, JeffKinney87 said:

 

Hint:  We are not talking so much about how good Callahan was, but how bad we are now.

 

Just now, The Dude said:

 

It's all relative.

Our more recent suckitude does not make the Callahan years the least bit more palatable. Callahan was just the very early years of our dark ages from which we have yet to emerge.

 

I’ve got a new theory. The past 25 years have been karma payment for the 25 years of excellence under Osborne. My math skills may be shaky but that means this year or next year is when the worm turns.

[The Dude]

3 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

 

Our more recent suckitude does not make the Callahan years the least bit more palatable.

 

Sure it does.  It seemed bad at the time, but we now know it wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed.  

 

Would Frost have been fired if he had Callahan's track record?  Not a chance.  Because that kind of outcome is far more palatable now.

[El Straino]

Omg, just talked to my CIA friend, can 100% confirm Bill Callahan was on the grassy knoll in Dallas during the JFK assassination!!! Also, they have a file on Billy C. jumping out of a plane with ransom money in 1971 under the name D.B. Cooper!

 

Also, my policeman friend told me if you find a mouse in your beer you can come here and get free beer, eh?

[JJ Husker]

8 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

Sure it does.  It seemed bad at the time, but we now know it wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed.  

 

Would Frost have been fired if he had Callahan's track record?  Not a chance.  Because that kind of outcome is far more palatable now.

If it works for you, great. Personally I will never desire or look the least bit fondly on the Callahan or Pelini or Riley or Frost years. Bad is bad, degrees don’t matter to me. JMO, I realize I may be different….

[JeffKinney87]

Just now, JJ Husker said:

If it works for you, great. Personally I will never desire or look the least bit fondly on the Callahan or Pelini or Riley or Frost years. Bad is bad, degrees don’t matter to me. JMO, I realize I may be different….

 

What?!  If you think Bo's  .709 winning percentage is bad, you have many many hard years of fandom ahead.

[JJ Husker]

16 minutes ago, JeffKinney87 said:

 

What?!  If you think Bo's  .709 winning percentage is bad, you have many many hard years of fandom ahead.

I don’t think his win percentage was bad. But there were no wins of substance against anybody with a heartbeat and plenty of embarrassing (relative now…) blowouts with, worst of all, his acceptance that was good enough.

 

Of course 9 wins is better than where we’ve been since. But I’m not into revisionist history that now deems that good or good enough. You’re prob right, I’ll prob be miserable as a fan till I die but I’m not going settle for mediocrity. As MLK said, I’ve been to the mountaintop….

[JeffKinney87]

1 minute ago, JJ Husker said:

I don’t think his win percentage was bad. But there were no wins of substance against anybody with a heartbeat and plenty of embarrassing (relative now…) blowouts with, worst of all, his acceptance that was good enough.

 

Of course 9 wins is better than where we’ve been since. But I’m not into revisionist history that now deems that good or good enough. You’re prob right, I’ll prob be miserable as a fan till I die but I’m not going settle for mediocrity. As MLK said, I’ve been to the mountaintop….

 

I think the whole "no wins of substance" and "9 wins is mediocrity" has been the main revisionist history that has been written this past decade or so.  What Bo managed to do in his first several years, was and still is in my mind unprecedented.  https://www.dailynebraskan.com/sports/tegler-pelini-s-record-stands-out-among-coaches-despite-fans-calling-for-his-firing/article_9fea7a20-5d75-11e3-9072-0019bb30f31a.html.

 

You, however, are absolutely entitled to your opinion and standards.  I hope for both of our sakes that we find a coach who can meet your expectations.

[JJ Husker]

5 minutes ago, JeffKinney87 said:

 

I think the whole "no wins of substance" and "9 wins is mediocrity" has been the main revisionist history that has been written this past decade or so.  What Bo managed to do in his first several years, was and still is in my mind unprecedented.  https://www.dailynebraskan.com/sports/tegler-pelini-s-record-stands-out-among-coaches-despite-fans-calling-for-his-firing/article_9fea7a20-5d75-11e3-9072-0019bb30f31a.html.

 

You, however, are absolutely entitled to your opinion and standards.  I hope for both of our sakes that we find a coach who can meet your expectations.

It doesn’t take any revisions to realize that Bo did not win any CCGs or a natty at Nebraska. And a brief review of game results will show a regular occurrence of s#!t the bed blowout losses. But yeah, there were definitely better records and better wins during his tenure than anything we’ve experienced since. Excuse me for being mehhh…

[JeffKinney87]

14 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

It doesn’t take any revisions to realize that Bo did not win any CCGs or a natty at Nebraska. And a brief review of game results will show a regular occurrence of s#!t the bed blowout losses. But yeah, there were definitely better records and better wins during his tenure than anything we’ve experienced since. Excuse me for being mehhh…

It doesn't take any revisions in understanding that Tom Osborne would fail to show any Conference Championships or Nattys at Nebraska during his first 6 years as well.  

 

Quoting the article above: "Osborne inherited a team that had won back-to-back national championships a year before his tenure started, and he didn’t coach a national title contender until 1982, his 10th season."

 

"Osborne didn’t win an outright conference championship until his ninth season. He shared a conference title in his third season – but so did Pelini. In 2010, Nebraska finished the season tied for the Big 12’s best record, a feat that would have earned a league title in pre-conference championship game days."

[Guy Chamberlin]

21 minutes ago, JeffKinney87 said:

 

I think the whole "no wins of substance" and "9 wins is mediocrity" has been the main revisionist history that has been written this past decade or so.  What Bo managed to do in his first several years, was and still is in my mind unprecedented.  https://www.dailynebraskan.com/sports/tegler-pelini-s-record-stands-out-among-coaches-despite-fans-calling-for-his-firing/article_9fea7a20-5d75-11e3-9072-0019bb30f31a.html.

 

You, however, are absolutely entitled to your opinion and standards.  I hope for both of our sakes that we find a coach who can meet your expectations.

 

I mean, I don't disagree with your numbers or your larger perspective. The unprecedented claim is probably a statistical fact. 

 

But Bo's record against ranked teams and the often one-sided nature of those blowout losses shouldn't be part of revisionist history, either. We may look selfish and entitled in hindsight, but the "9 wins is mediocrity" opinion was, for better or worse, shared by a lot of Husker fans at the time, including Bo supporters. I don't recall a single fan or media pundit at that time who suggested we should be content with the 9 win consistency. The biggest Bo supporters would invariably argue that Bo just needed a few more seasons to get us over the top. Not that we needed to be happy where we were. 

 

The argument that firing Bo Pelini wasn't a mistake is also backed by strong evidence, given Bo's subsequent career.  The wake up call for Husker fans is that our HC position wasn't the plum college football job we assumed it was. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 minutes ago, JeffKinney87 said:

It doesn't take any revisions in understanding that Tom Osborne would fail to show any Conference Championships or Nattys at Nebraska during his first 6 years as well.  

 

Quoting the article above: "Osborne inherited a team that had won back-to-back national championships a year before his tenure started, and he didn’t coach a national title contender until 1982, his 10th season."

 

"Osborne didn’t win an outright conference championship until his ninth season. He shared a conference title in his third season – but so did Pelini. In 2010, Nebraska finished the season tied for the Big 12’s best record, a feat that would have earned a league title in pre-conference championship game days."

 

I was there, and I can assure you that Tom Osborne got heat from the fans in very similar language to the heat given Bo Pelini. It wasn't just internet cranks back then, it was enough people that Osborne applied to be head coach at Colorado in 1978. 

 

In that college football landscape, a 9-3 record might still get Nebraska and Osborne a Top 10 ranking, but it didn't stop some grumbling. 

[JeffKinney87]

1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I mean, I don't disagree with your numbers or your larger perspective. The unprecedented claim is probably a statistical fact. 

 

But Bo's record against ranked teams and the often one-sided nature of those blowout losses shouldn't be part of revisionist history, either. We may look selfish and entitled in hindsight, but the "9 wins is mediocrity" opinion was, for better or worse, shared by a lot of Husker fans at the time, including Bo supporters. I don't recall a single fan or media pundit at that time who suggested we should be content with the 9 win consistency. The biggest Bo supporters would invariably argue that Bo just needed a few more seasons to get us over the top. Not that we needed to be happy where we were. 

 

The argument that firing Bo Pelini wasn't a mistake is also backed by strong evidence, given Bo's subsequent career.  The wake up call for Husker fans is that our HC position wasn't the plum college football job we assumed it was. 

 

There is definitely evidence in that direction, but I don't know if I would call it strong evidence.  If Osborne would have left NU for Colorado early in his career (due to his mediocrity obviously only getting 9 wins a year), and never had quite the success in Boulder than he had at Nebraska, due to the lack of resources or commitment to winning, we might be saying the same thing.  I would say the strongest evidence we have is how similar Bo's tenure at Nebraska lines up with Tom Osborne's first years.

 

I think the wake up call should be "We cannot continue to put successful coaches on the hot seat, because they don't immediately win Conference Championships or National Championships"  

[JeffKinney87]

1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I was there, and I can assure you that Tom Osborne got heat from the fans in very similar language to the heat given Bo Pelini. It wasn't just internet cranks back then, it was enough people that Osborne applied to be head coach at Colorado in 1978. 

 

In that college football landscape, a 9-3 record might still get Nebraska and Osborne a Top 10 ranking, but it didn't stop some grumbling. 

 

I was not there, but I do agree that he obviously got heat (I reference it in another post I was typing when you sent this).  He was NOT mediocre in 1978, Bo was not mediocre in 2014.  I think they had very similar career arcs, and I think Bo had the potential to be similar to Tom Osborne if given enough time.  Obviously we will never know.

[JJ Husker]

17 minutes ago, JeffKinney87 said:

It doesn't take any revisions in understanding that Tom Osborne would fail to show any Conference Championships or Nattys at Nebraska during his first 6 years as well.  

 

Quoting the article above: "Osborne inherited a team that had won back-to-back national championships a year before his tenure started, and he didn’t coach a national title contender until 1982, his 10th season."

 

"Osborne didn’t win an outright conference championship until his ninth season. He shared a conference title in his third season – but so did Pelini. In 2010, Nebraska finished the season tied for the Big 12’s best record, a feat that would have earned a league title in pre-conference championship game days."

I really don’t care enough to revisit or rehash the past for the umpteenth time. I stated why I feel the way I do. You aren’t going to change my mind and I’m not trying to change yours. If what Bo offered was plenty for you, okay for you then.

[JeffKinney87]

Just now, JJ Husker said:

I really don’t care enough to revisit or rehash the past for the umpteenth time. I stated why I feel the way I do. You aren’t going to change my mind and I’m not trying to change yours. If what Bo offered was plenty for you, okay for you then.

Fair enough