Callahan's Legacy

[teachercd]

This draft and tim Griffins top 40 in the big 12 blog (where only two huskers made the top 40, the same amount as KSU players I think), show that BC did not only NOT recruit this amazing talent that some people think but that he also did do anything to get players better once they were on campus.

 

It is so annoying when BCers try to defend him still, look I LOVED the "talent" he was bringing in and I thought he was going to do a really good job, I know now that I was wrong and its okay to admit that he sucked, at pretty much everything.

[teachercd]

Did he say that pressure was overrated too?

 

I feel like I've had this conversation before but I don't remember what the answer was.

 

I'm pretty sure he was just saying more intangible (as far as looking at stat sheets go) things like applying pressure mattered more than numbers like sacks. And it's true.

 

 

Sacks are more important then just pressure. As a DC you would much rather have 2nd and 17 instead of 2nd and 10 because your team applied pressure and the QB threw it away. Thats like saying that a batted down ball is more important then a pick.

 

Not to mention, soooooo much of college football is emotional and big plays like that get teams going, we have all seen that happen before.

[Vince from ShamWOW]

Did he say that pressure was overrated too?

 

I feel like I've had this conversation before but I don't remember what the answer was.

 

I'm pretty sure he was just saying more intangible (as far as looking at stat sheets go) things like applying pressure mattered more than numbers like sacks. And it's true.

 

 

Actually putting pressure on the QB still allows him to complete a pass, run for yardage, first downs, and touch downs. Whereas a sack prevents all that. Sure, with just pressure, he could throw an incomplete pass or an interception, however against the Cosbohl D that didn't happen nearly as often as the opposing QB's succeeding while being pressured or not.

 

So you see, sacks are better than just applying pressure. And it's true.

[HuskerJen]

Did he say that pressure was overrated too?

 

I feel like I've had this conversation before but I don't remember what the answer was.

 

I'm pretty sure he was just saying more intangible (as far as looking at stat sheets go) things like applying pressure mattered more than numbers like sacks. And it's true.

 

No, I added the word pressure to the statement.

 

So you think a QB pressure matters more than a sack? Really?

 

Here's a scenario #1: It's 2nd & 8, the QB drops back, feels pressure, fires a pass and it falls incomplete...now it's 3rd & 8.

 

Scenario #2: It's 2nd & 8, the QB drops back, Suh busts through the line and sacks the QB for a seven yard loss...now it's 3rd & 15.

 

Are you trying to say that, defensively speaking, putting an offense into 3rd & 8 is just as good, or better/matters more, than if that offense is in a 3rd & 15 situation?

 

I'm not sure of the statistical probability of an offense converting on 3 & 8, but I do know that it's higher than it would be in a 3rd & 15 situation.

[carlfense]

Oh dear. More Callahan threads. We do have a new coach and a fairly promising upcoming season, don't we?

 

(Callahan could cure cancer and some people here still wouldn't give him credit for it)

[skersfan]

amen.

 

It is time to move on and quit blaming anyone and everyone for our past problems. Look to the future and be happy with what we have and where we seem to be headed.

 

Not good having this much resentment. The problem has been rectified. Talk about he positives, you will feel better and we have a lot to be very happy with.

[Vince from ShamWOW]

Oh dear. More Callahan threads. We do have a new coach and a fairly promising upcoming season, don't we?

(Callahan could cure cancer and some people here still wouldn't give him credit for it)

 

 

That would never happen because to cure something one has to make adjustments to things that didn't work.

[carlfense]

Oh dear. More Callahan threads. We do have a new coach and a fairly promising upcoming season, don't we?

(Callahan could cure cancer and some people here still wouldn't give him credit for it)

 

 

That would never happen because to sure something one has to make adjustments to things that didn't work.

[HUSKER 37]

It still amazes me how many on this site call Callahan a good Coach or recruiter "in every way"

...Probably because it's certainly not very obvious at all from his track record. (Results aren't speaking for themselves).

 

I mean..What makes a good recruiter?

The same qualities that make a good used car salesman?

I thought we already established the fact that the reason his recruiting numbers were up so high, wasn't necessarily because of 4* or 5* athletes..but rather because he over-recruited..sometimes more than 30 athletes each season.

I don't know about the "in every way" part, but Callahan was a good recruiter. As I mentioned earlier, his commitment to JUCOs even after the initial build up for the system change was disturbing. However to say that the only reason that his classes were ranked high was because of the really high number of recruits he signed is not true at all. Sure that had a lot to with the 2005 class ranking but here is what he did year by year:

 

2004 - 18 Recruits, Ranked 27th by Rivals

2005 - 31 Recruits, Ranked 5th by Rivals

2006 - 24 Recruits, Ranked 20th by Rivals

2007 - 28 Recruits, Ranked 13th by Rivals

 

Bo took 28 in 2008 and 21 this past year so I am not sure other than 2005 that Callahan's results were mostly to do with over recruiting.

 

Another way to look at it is how many of Callahan's players made an impact last season under Bo or will this season? Only 2 Freshmen last year I can think of burned a year of eligibility, Dennard and Wald and their contributions were almost exclusively on Special Teams. Looking to this year it is true that we should see a lot of Bo's recruits start or make impacts, but frankly the success of the team this year relies mainly on the shoulders of the players Callahan brought in. Look at the Offensive side of the ball. The QB, all of the O-Line (minus Ricky Henry and Derek Meyer), 3 of the top WRs (Holt, Paul, and Brooks), the top TE, and the top 2 IB's are all Callahan recruits. On the Defensive side of the ball, you see a few less Callahan players but the ones you do see are arguably the most important. Callahan recruits include all but 1 (Baker) of the top 4 DTs, both starting DEs, the top 3 corners (top 4 if you put Blue ahead of Gomes and Dennard), the starting Strong Safety, one of the top 3 at Free Safety, and a possible 2 deep player at the MIKE in Dillard (this one is the most unlikely obviously). I would say that the D is full of talent that Callahan brought in.

 

I still don't see that as the mark of a great recruiter.

 

Almost 35% of Ron Prince's recruits made significant contributions last year..at least the starters did (you'd hope).

 

You'd also sorta expect your upperclassmen would have the experience to make more of a contribution than the new guys...Cally's recruits SHOULD be contributing by now..

 

What set recruiters like John Blake, Ron Zook, Mack Brown, or even Turner Gill apart from the rest, is how they fared trying to get a kid offered by a legitimate top 25 program to come to their respective schools..

 

I'd imagine in the long run..Honesty helps too..That's where recruits that came from families that understood the value of an education..found Dr. Tom a breath of fresh air..he wanted to talk about life after or outside of Football..not the few years you'd be able to contribute on the field for us.

 

Cally may have landed two or three that were offered by someone rated above us..but I can only think of Lucky (Was he ever offered by USC?) and a couple of QB's that transferred out...Maybe a handful of "Legacies" from in state and surrounding states...Guys that were fans even before the were offered by N.Dak State).

[HUSKER 37]

amen.

 

It is time to move on and quit blaming anyone and everyone for our past problems. Look to the future and be happy with what we have and where we seem to be headed.

 

Not good having this much resentment. The problem has been rectified. Talk about he positives, you will feel better and we have a lot to be very happy with.

 

Yeah.. Rooting out someone to Blame is not normally something I revel in..My instincts are more toward the finding out what went wrong and trying to find ways to correct it or prevent it from happening again.

 

I used to hate studying History..Too much emphasis was placed on memorizing dates or names..But later, you learn that it's important to understand WHY certain things occur so you don't have to repeat the bad things.

 

Part of it (for me) is hoping someone will be able to convince me Cally wasn't all bad..Maybe the Cancer research he's doing will help my opinion of him.

 

But...

 

Does anyone else wonder if ATM, Notre Dame, and Mechiken are currently going through Callihanazation/Cosgrovians of their own?

[Vince from ShamWOW]

amen.

 

It is time to move on and quit blaming anyone and everyone for our past problems. Look to the future and be happy with what we have and where we seem to be headed.

 

Not good having this much resentment. The problem has been rectified. Talk about he positives, you will feel better and we have a lot to be very happy with.

 

Yeah.. Rooting out someone to Blame is not normally something I revel in..My instincts are more toward the finding out what went wrong and trying to find ways to correct it or prevent it from happening again.

 

I used to hate studying History..Too much emphasis was placed on memorizing dates or names..But later, you learn that it's important to understand WHY certain things occur so you don't have to repeat the bad things.

 

Part of it (for me) is hoping someone will be able to convince me Cally wasn't all bad..Maybe the Cancer research he's doing will help my opinion of him.

 

But...

 

Does anyone else wonder if ATM, Notre Dame, and Mechiken are currently going through Callihanazation/Cosgrovians of their own?

 

I know those three programs and their fans feel the pain the NU Football program and Husker fans felt during the Callafraud "error"

[caveman99]

It still amazes me how many on this site call Callahan a good Coach or recruiter "in every way"

...Probably because it's certainly not very obvious at all from his track record. (Results aren't speaking for themselves).

 

I mean..What makes a good recruiter?

The same qualities that make a good used car salesman?

I thought we already established the fact that the reason his recruiting numbers were up so high, wasn't necessarily because of 4* or 5* athletes..but rather because he over-recruited..sometimes more than 30 athletes each season.

I don't know about the "in every way" part, but Callahan was a good recruiter. As I mentioned earlier, his commitment to JUCOs even after the initial build up for the system change was disturbing. However to say that the only reason that his classes were ranked high was because of the really high number of recruits he signed is not true at all. Sure that had a lot to with the 2005 class ranking but here is what he did year by year:

 

2004 - 18 Recruits, Ranked 27th by Rivals

2005 - 31 Recruits, Ranked 5th by Rivals

2006 - 24 Recruits, Ranked 20th by Rivals

2007 - 28 Recruits, Ranked 13th by Rivals

 

Bo took 28 in 2008 and 21 this past year so I am not sure other than 2005 that Callahan's results were mostly to do with over recruiting.

 

Another way to look at it is how many of Callahan's players made an impact last season under Bo or will this season? Only 2 Freshmen last year I can think of burned a year of eligibility, Dennard and Wald and their contributions were almost exclusively on Special Teams. Looking to this year it is true that we should see a lot of Bo's recruits start or make impacts, but frankly the success of the team this year relies mainly on the shoulders of the players Callahan brought in. Look at the Offensive side of the ball. The QB, all of the O-Line (minus Ricky Henry and Derek Meyer), 3 of the top WRs (Holt, Paul, and Brooks), the top TE, and the top 2 IB's are all Callahan recruits. On the Defensive side of the ball, you see a few less Callahan players but the ones you do see are arguably the most important. Callahan recruits include all but 1 (Baker) of the top 4 DTs, both starting DEs, the top 3 corners (top 4 if you put Blue ahead of Gomes and Dennard), the starting Strong Safety, one of the top 3 at Free Safety, and a possible 2 deep player at the MIKE in Dillard (this one is the most unlikely obviously). I would say that the D is full of talent that Callahan brought in.

 

I still don't see that as the mark of a great recruiter.

 

Almost 25% of Ron Prince's recruits made significant contributions last year..at least the starters did (you'd hope).

 

You'd also sorta expect your upperclassmen would have the experience to make more of a contribution that the new guys.

 

What set recruiters like John Blake, Ron Zook, or even Turner Gill apart from the rest, is how they fared trying to get a kid offered by a legitimate top 25 program to come to their respective schools..

 

I'd imagine in the long run..Honesty helps too..That's where recruits that came from families that understood the value of an education..found Dr. Tom a breath of fresh air..he wanted to talk about life after or outside of Football..not the few years you'd be able to contribute on the field for us.

 

Cally may have landed two or three that were offered by someone rated above us..but I can only think of Lucky (Was he ever offered by USC?) and a couple of QB's that transferred out...Maybe a handful of "Legacies" from in state and surrounding states...Guys that were fans even before the were offered by N.Dak State).

On any team upperclassmen should be the biggest contributors, that wasn't my real point. Point is that the major contributors on a winning team were recruited by Callahan. If they win 10 games this year then you still think Callahan couldn't recruit? How about the draft over the next 2 years? BigWillie did a good job previously in this thread listing out almost a dozen players that have a good shot to get drafted. I get that Bo and Co do a really good job developing players, that is the thing I love the most about him as it is very similar to what TO did, but honestly the kids have to have talent to even be in a position to develop into NFL type players. I know you say that you don't think that Callahan didn't pull in players that other big time schools wanted, but I would disagree. Lucky is just one example, but keeping with the current players theme there are several 2009 impact players that were highly recruited. Without taking the time to go through each kids recruiting history, I am simply going by if a player was a 4 Star or 5 Star recruit per Rivals. I think it is fair to say that those players have many big time schools after them. Here are the players: Suh, Brooks, Dillard, Thenarse, Paul, Asante, Burkes(I know he has health issues but if he is cleared, he will be on the 2 Deep), Lee, Castille, and Lawrence; so 10 players that will be impacts out of a 44 player 2-Deep roster, that is nearly a quarter of the possible 2-Deep. I don't like Callahan either, I listed my reasons previously in this thread, but to say he didn't do anything positive is just not fair.

[HUSKER 37]

It still amazes me how many on this site call Callahan a good Coach or recruiter "in every way"

...Probably because it's certainly not very obvious at all from his track record. (Results aren't speaking for themselves).

 

I mean..What makes a good recruiter?

The same qualities that make a good used car salesman?

I thought we already established the fact that the reason his recruiting numbers were up so high, wasn't necessarily because of 4* or 5* athletes..but rather because he over-recruited..sometimes more than 30 athletes each season.

I don't know about the "in every way" part, but Callahan was a good recruiter. As I mentioned earlier, his commitment to JUCOs even after the initial build up for the system change was disturbing. However to say that the only reason that his classes were ranked high was because of the really high number of recruits he signed is not true at all. Sure that had a lot to with the 2005 class ranking but here is what he did year by year:

 

2004 - 18 Recruits, Ranked 27th by Rivals

2005 - 31 Recruits, Ranked 5th by Rivals

2006 - 24 Recruits, Ranked 20th by Rivals

2007 - 28 Recruits, Ranked 13th by Rivals

 

Bo took 28 in 2008 and 21 this past year so I am not sure other than 2005 that Callahan's results were mostly to do with over recruiting.

 

Another way to look at it is how many of Callahan's players made an impact last season under Bo or will this season? Only 2 Freshmen last year I can think of burned a year of eligibility, Dennard and Wald and their contributions were almost exclusively on Special Teams. Looking to this year it is true that we should see a lot of Bo's recruits start or make impacts, but frankly the success of the team this year relies mainly on the shoulders of the players Callahan brought in. Look at the Offensive side of the ball. The QB, all of the O-Line (minus Ricky Henry and Derek Meyer), 3 of the top WRs (Holt, Paul, and Brooks), the top TE, and the top 2 IB's are all Callahan recruits. On the Defensive side of the ball, you see a few less Callahan players but the ones you do see are arguably the most important. Callahan recruits include all but 1 (Baker) of the top 4 DTs, both starting DEs, the top 3 corners (top 4 if you put Blue ahead of Gomes and Dennard), the starting Strong Safety, one of the top 3 at Free Safety, and a possible 2 deep player at the MIKE in Dillard (this one is the most unlikely obviously). I would say that the D is full of talent that Callahan brought in.

 

I still don't see that as the mark of a great recruiter.

 

Almost 25% of Ron Prince's recruits made significant contributions last year..at least the starters did (you'd hope).

 

You'd also sorta expect your upperclassmen would have the experience to make more of a contribution that the new guys.

 

What set recruiters like John Blake, Ron Zook, or even Turner Gill apart from the rest, is how they fared trying to get a kid offered by a legitimate top 25 program to come to their respective schools..

 

I'd imagine in the long run..Honesty helps too..That's where recruits that came from families that understood the value of an education..found Dr. Tom a breath of fresh air..he wanted to talk about life after or outside of Football..not the few years you'd be able to contribute on the field for us.

 

Cally may have landed two or three that were offered by someone rated above us..but I can only think of Lucky (Was he ever offered by USC?) and a couple of QB's that transferred out...Maybe a handful of "Legacies" from in state and surrounding states...Guys that were fans even before the were offered by N.Dak State).

On any team upperclassmen should be the biggest contributors, that wasn't my real point. Point is that the major contributors on a winning team were recruited by Callahan.

 

 

....If they win 10 games this year then you still think Callahan couldn't recruit? How about the draft over the next 2 years? BigWillie did a good job previously in this thread listing out almost a dozen players that have a good shot to get drafted.

 

 

I get that Bo and Co do a really good job developing players, that is the thing I love the most about him as it is very similar to what TO did, but honestly the kids have to have talent to even be in a position to develop into NFL type players. I know you say that you don't think that Callahan didn't pull in players that other big time schools wanted, but I would disagree. Lucky is just one example, but keeping with the current players theme there are several 2009 impact players that were highly recruited. Without taking the time to go through each kids recruiting history, I am simply going by if a player was a 4 Star or 5 Star recruit per Rivals. I think it is fair to say that those players have many big time schools after them. Here are the players: Suh, Brooks, Dillard, Thenarse, Paul, Asante, Burkes(I know he has health issues but if he is cleared, he will be on the 2 Deep), Lee, Castille, and Lawrence; so 10 players that will be impacts out of a 44 player 2-Deep roster, that is nearly a quarter of the possible 2-Deep. I don't like Callahan either, I listed my reasons previously in this thread, but to say he didn't do anything positive is just not fair.

 

I didn't mean to imply Cally COULDN'T recruit...Just that he was not that good (or successful) at it.

There's no way of telling, but I doubt a third of those guys would be dradted with the guys that recruited them still coaching them up.

 

I would be interested in exactly who else recruited the players you mentioned.

 

I also believe if he were given another 10 years, his recruiting classes would've been almost as good as Solich's

 

True..he did some good things..Made public trips to the Hospital (and maybe some private ones, too) to visit sick people...Continued with the emphasis on classwork by the players...Called some Sooners :effin' something-or-others..(sorry..I sorta liked that).

 

But he seemed Hell-bent on changing things that didn't really need to be changed..Like getting rid of longtime support staff..probably because they were thinking bad thoughts..like "That's not the way T.O. or Frankie did it"...

[IBleedHuskerRed]

Oh dear. More Callahan threads. We do have a new coach and a fairly promising upcoming season, don't we?

(Callahan could cure cancer and some people here still wouldn't give him credit for it)

 

 

That would never happen because to cure something one has to make adjustments to things that didn't work.

So true..

[BigWillie]

It still amazes me how many on this site call Callahan a good Coach or recruiter "in every way"

...Probably because it's certainly not very obvious at all from his track record. (Results aren't speaking for themselves).

 

I mean..What makes a good recruiter?

The same qualities that make a good used car salesman?

I thought we already established the fact that the reason his recruiting numbers were up so high, wasn't necessarily because of 4* or 5* athletes..but rather because he over-recruited..sometimes more than 35 athletes each season.

 

I'd prefer someone that only promises an education..and an opportunity to play..Maybe a promise to Mom to always try to keep him out of trouble...not guaranteeing starting jobs or a "fer-shure" ticket to the NFL.

 

 

And how was he a good coach?

 

He certainly didn't mold his Offense to fit his players..He couldn't even make halftime adjustments to save his life.

Is it because his Offense was different to us? Or too "complicated for any of us to understand"? He certainly didn't invent the WCO.

 

Part of being a great Coach, is the ability to change..to accept the fact that you can always improve your process..He just seemed too stubborn to ever do that.

 

And Big Willie..nice to see you back..Would you also blame his assistants for us not scrimmaging in pads much?..like they do in Callahan's NFL?

 

Pretty much. You have to be a used car salesmen. The sleaziest usually win out. Thus why Les Miles, Charlie Weis, Nick Saban and Urban Meyer win so many recruiting battles. Is it a bad trait to have when it comes to recruiting - no, IMO. You gotta do what you gotta do. Otherwise you are cheating yourself out of talent and you have a rabid fan base crawling up your butt.

 

You cannot deny Callahan as a quality offensive mind though. You can go back to look at all his statistics in his time here to see that.

 

And no, his biggest problem wasn't that he didn't scrimmage in pads. Although it did breed some sissies, his biggest problem was that he was simply too loyal. Callahan actually had a chance to stay our coach for at least one more season if he had a coaching overhaul and he refused because he wanted to be loyal to his friends. In the end, it cost him his job.

 

BigWillie,

 

Cosgrove isn't that terrible of a coach either, tbh. He was in 2007, which is obvious, but in his 3rd year here (2006) Nebraska led the nation in sacks. He had something going for him for awhile until things melted down.

 

Also, and this isn't really directed at you BigWillie but just in general, even though Callahan may have been a good coach who produced "consistent offense", he is still the head coach. This means he is still responsible for the team as a whole and how they perform week in and week out. Callahan went 0-24 in games they were down at halftime in. Pelini is 2-2 in his first year, which says a lot.

 

Cosgrove wasn't horrible scheme wise. His base scheme worked as long as you had disciplined, hard nosed players willing to stick their nose in to take on blocks so that someone else could make the play. However, he had players like Bo Ruud and Corey McKeon who refused to do this. Couple that with guys like Octavien, Asante, Thenarse, 'Dre Jones, among others who honestly had little grasp of the system and you had a disaster. Instead of adjusting, he stuck by it.

 

His defense worked when he had animals like Ola, Cryer, Carriker and Moore eating up blocks everywhere, as his scheme enjoys, but once they were gone, he tanked.

 

Cos was only good while he had players that fit his scheme. As far as teaching them to fit his scheme or having assistants to teach his players to fit his scheme, he was horrid. Same goes for even attempting to adjust.

 

And not really. Pelini has the same mindset as Callahan did. Pelini has no say so in the offense. Callahan had no say so in his defense. Pelini spends the majority of his time working with the defense. Callahan spent the majority of his time with the offense.

 

The difference in these two situations is that Watson is an offensive genius and Cosgrove was just a clown.

 

Could you imagine Cosgrove changing his defense the way Watson has changed this offense? I mean, how many teams do you see that essentially run the WCO out of the gun? That is what Watson has installed here.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Cosgrove could lead our team through tackling drills, much less run a defense.

 

BigWillie,

 

Cosgrove isn't that terrible of a coach either, tbh. He was in 2007, which is obvious, but in his 3rd year here (2006) Nebraska led the nation in sacks. He had something going for him for awhile until things melted down.

 

Coincidentally, that was when John Blake was here. Once Blake left, so did the effectiveness of the DL.

 

Remember, the former DC's "philosophy" for the DL was merely gap control. The former DC didn't want the DL to pressure the QB, didn't want sacks, etc.. The previous staff thought sacks and pressuring the QB were over-rated remember?

 

John Blake was overrated. He got lucky having talents like Carriker, Moore, Turner, etc., on his line while he was here. He left as they was leaving.

 

But he basically mailed in his final season here which is why he was gone before the bowl game.

 

And remember Carriker's comments when Buddy Wyatt came aboard? I'm not going to quote him, but Carriker stated he had learned more in just a few weeks under Wyatt than he had in his entire time at Nebraska.

 

Blake was a great recruiter, when motivated. Offered little else though.