The Great Big Thread of Shawn Watson Angst

[HuskerGBR]

Quoted from another board.

 

 

I believe that Bo on down through every offensive coach holds culpability for our season being a failure by the standards set by Bo. Watson has become the scapegoat and could be the one who takes the "fall" for this whole situation, which really isn't the right thing to do.

 

Shawn Watson hasn't had it easy here being a holdover from the previous staff. As a playcaller he has been fine, but the biggest problems he has encountered have been in recruiting his position. I do hold him responsible for issues recruiting players at QB. Now, to be fair, recruiting at times for this staff has been an epic disaster, so the failure of Watson to lure in a top QB is somewhat symptomatic of the great issue we had with atrocious organization and commitment to recruiting early on in Bo's tenure. A kid like Blaine Gabbert would have made last Saturday night a hell of a lot different. In this game you can afford to miss a QB every few years, but if you string together a few bad years, it will snowball on you very quickly, and it has. Failures to recruit effectively at the QB position have hurt us, and it was evident all season long, despite all the excitement over a QB that can run great but struggles mightily in the passing game. However, if Bo were to be firing coaches with bad resumes in recruiting, well he would be looking a lot of new staff members if previous failures were going to be weighed heavily, including some of his own.

 

Offensive Direction-This is something that comes from the head coach. Bo has changed this game up a lot in three years, and isn't a shock that things haven't really taken off, because he doesn't stick with anything. I understand trying to win, and win a lot now, but trying to put band aid fixes on everything for three years gets you this. Furthermore, I hold Bo accountable for the issues on our offensive staff. He had an OC in place, and he went out and hired two guys who were out of jobs, one of them to fill the most important role on an offensive staff. I mean, Jesus turned water into wine, but I'm pretty sure he didn't use toilet water.

 

I have supported Shawn Watson for a long time, and I still do. I am fine if he is gone after this year, and fine if he stays around for 2011. There are a number of things that he is getting all the blame for placed directly on him that are out of his control or actually things he had nothing to do with that are quite aggravating to see. It will certainly be an interesting off season for sure. Lots of decisions for the head coach to make.

 

 

I agree with a lot of that, except to note that Ron Brown is a damn fine coach and a big asset to this staff. Also not sure what the band aid fixes in 2008 were, but you get the idea. The stuff about missing on QBs a few years in a row really resonates with me and moreover, the stockpiling of projects at that position. That's a big reason why we are so thin at depth there right now. People said before the season we had a 3-headed monster there, but let's be real now. We had Taylor (when healthy), and nobody knew what we would get out of Lee and Green other than projections.

 

Went digging around and more on the changes to the offense here. I admit I really know very little about the nature of the changes or the probably direction we are going to take in the future with the O, other than very generally QBs that can run and an offense that relies on running.

 

I feel a lot of the issues come from the top down. Our defensive staff was chosen and closely worked with by Bo, but the offensive staff is a collage of guys with ideologically different philosophies and skill sets. Our head coach keeps changing up his demands and forcing our coaches to adapt. We have changed our offense each year he has been here as head coach, it isn't a wonder that our offense is almost in complete disarray. We have taken shortcuts in program building and it shows in a big game against a team that has its identity and is established.

 

Laying this issue at the feet of your offensive coordinator may seem like the popular and easy solution to the problem, but I do not believe that is the right course of action at all. I'm not advocating keeping anyone or getting rid of anyone, but rather that we have a flesh wound here and sticking a Band-Aid on it isn't going to change much.

 

Basically, we have problems with the offense right now, but it's going to take a real solution that the folks in charge are going to have to identify and work at. Most just want to change the name of the guy, but I think the problems here are more deep-rooted than that and Bo as HC will have to work up a solid and comprehensive plan of attack to find the best solution, rather than cut anyone and throw some money at someone else (advocated by some fans) or replace anyone that leaves with someone from within and keep on chugging as we have (what seems to be the likely future in the next several years if anyone leaves). People want Watson to get fired or quit and they see it as a solution, but it's not a solution. Whether he stays or not, we need a solution, and it probably isn't clear to anyone what that may be - so we have only to turn to Bo, and hope.

 

I don't know zoogies...I agree with a couple of things that guy said, but some of it I don't really see how he came up with some of his opinions. As a playcaller he is not fine in my eyes. At times some of the plays are poor execution by the players and then other times they are just bad series, because Watson went away from what is working. Watson just doesn't see how the game is going and he doesn't know how and when to make adjustments.

 

Plus, Bo is still figuring out what type of offense he wants. But at this point he is still trying to get the right recruits for that offense and at the same time win games. So we don't have an identity because of this. That is why so many new coaches fail...they try to ram in their system with the wrong players and have multiple bad seasons. Which in turn gets the coach fired before he can establish the culture he wants.

 

Then for the guy to say Blaine Gabbert would have made a difference is ludicrous. Not with the offensive philosophy that Bo wants anyways. He wants a QB that can be a threat to run to make defenses account for all 11 guys on the offense. It is basically like when we ran the power option in a way. Defenses had to account for the QB as well. That is what I heard him say in an interview anyways...that was straight from Bo.

 

Anyways, I agree we need to recruit more QB's with the skill set to run what we want. They need to commit to having a run first QB and go out and get those types of guys (if that is the direction they want with the offense). Then you can establish an identity. What I see right now from our QB's is a guy that can pass in Lee, a guy that is somewhat average at both in Green, and a guy that can run in Martinez...just no consistency on what we want. You want guys that can run...then get QB's that run first. You want a passer, then get all passers. It is a jumbled mess of what our QB's are good at and if one goes down then we have to completely change the offense for whoever is in there.

 

If we do get a new OC then he needs to be knowledgable in the type of offense that Bo wants to run.

 

The bolded part is very well said and pretty much sums up how they need to approach this situation.

[The Dude]

I woke up today expecting this thread to be 20 pages long.

 

 

I AM DISAPPOINT.

[zoogs]

Playcalling is something I try not to criticize too much, because I frankly know nothing about how playcalling an offense really works. I know about exploiting strengths and weaknesses in Madden and believe me, I can really exploit a defense there, but this is a completely different animal. That said, I will add that I am very, very critical of the playcalling at the end of the OU, especially because of the magnitude of the situation. That said, there are others that are more knowledgeable about this sort of thing, so I will just shut up and mostly defer to them here. Jaw at HI, who wrote the excerpted portions above, is someone I consider to be fairly knowledgeable in this area, but opinions vary.

 

Plus, Bo is still figuring out what type of offense he wants. But at this point he is still trying to get the right recruits for that offense and at the same time win games. So we don't have an identity because of this. That is why so many new coaches fail...they try to ram in their system with the wrong players and have multiple bad seasons. Which in turn gets the coach fired before he can establish the culture he wants.

 

This goes back to the offense's problems being put on Bo. He is having quite a hand in the offense's operation, which is fully appropriate as head coach. But if that's going to be the case, and he is figuring out and changing his mind and trying to ram a system in the wrong way with coaches, then it all goes back on him. Which could get him fired (probably never while Osborne is around though), or at least hurt the team to the point where fans will want him to be fired. That's something I hope will never come to pass. I'd hate to see it and love the defense we are establishing here.

 

But Bo has to figure out something different about how to steer the offense though. When I say coaches, by the way, I am talking about Barney, as he is completely unsuited as an OL coach for the spread option, and the men in the trenches really are critical to any offense. Watson can work in more or less WCO principles but isn't particularly wedded to him past it being a preference thing. I think he's a guy that really will take the strengths of a team's roster, and play to them. IMO Bo can do better just by letting Watson run his own show a lot more independently. It's no good having an OC that will play and adapt the offense to any kind of strength depending on the year, when Bo will tie it down to certain styles. Then again, this could be an unfair characterization. The sunshine pumper in me says that Watson and Bo are on the same page but it's getting harder to believe that.

 

Then for the guy to say Blaine Gabbert would have made a difference is ludicrous. Not with the offensive philosophy that Bo wants anyways. He wants a QB that can be a threat to run to make defenses account for all 11 guys on the offense. It is basically like when we ran the power option in a way. Defenses had to account for the QB as well. That is what I heard him say in an interview anyways...that was straight from Bo.

 

This is symptomatic of the problem in my opinion. If we had a Blaine Gabbert here, we should run to play to Gabbert's strengths, regardless of whether Bo loves running QBs or not. We're talking about an elite talent at quarterback here and he would definitely have made a difference. We wouldn't have gone to this offense while Gabbert was starting, for one thing. And a note on the 'accounting for 11 guys' - yes, that's something that will work very well, as we've seen this year. But it also closes other doors, as everything really has trade-offs. With a top QB like Gabbert, you can make full use of all the other playmakers on offense and get a lot more creative, not in the least because of how much more of the playbook you would have open to you. You look at how innovative OU with Landry can get, even though we don't have to really account for Landry's running (except on 4th and 1, I guess!) When we have a guy who may not ever reach that level in the mental part of the game, the playbook closes down and people wonder why we are always running the same plays. When some of the things we want to see (some I formation, runs up the middle, and then playaction/deep passes) would be there if Green had to go in. And if you ask me, once Taylor's legs are negated and defenses don't have to defend 11-on-11 it hinders us so immensely it isn't even funny. Why Bo decided to stick with Taylor when it was obvious OU wasn't defending 11-on-11 is beyond me.

 

The advantage with a guy like Taylor is if the light does come on enough he will just be deadly. And we don't have Gabbert, so that debate is too hypothetical to really get into.

 

On QBs, I think the problem is more that we just missed on guys. Witt left and was never really replaced. Spano replaced Gabbert which, respect to Kody, isn't a fair trade, and then it's moot anyways since Spano has been hurt - and hasn't been replaced. And even before that, when Freeman left and wasn't replaced in that class. Lee is a guy that can do a little of both but is mostly a passer. Green is really a runner that can't make people miss like Taylor can, the only reason people think he's a 'sorta both' guy is because he is farther along than Taylor in passing, but that is only because Taylor was so, so far behind to start with. Green and Taylor were both project type players. Speaking on that, we DID commit to recruiting run first QBs and that's dangerous IMO, because when you have too many projects pretty soon you don't have anyone who is really solid in crucial things like quarterbacking fundamentals. It's why to me a guy like Carnes who is a *true* dual threat, was so important for us and even then we were lucky to get him at the end after losing another Gabbert. I would rather have a mix, but we haven't and that's partly responsible for the lack of depth IMO. Not so much this year maybe, as last year, when we needed a spark to replace Lee but Green was in no way, shape or form ready for that, and we had to limp by with injured Lee for the rest of the year.

 

These are just some minor squabbling points though, in response to one or two of your points. Don't take it as an authoritative opinion, just a "just my opinion" kind of thing. I know most will disagree on the mix of QB styles. It is how most schools operate though, as Vince Young was followed by a guy like Colt McCoy since Colt was best (and not Sherrod Harris or John Chiles or other projects they had that didn't pan out), and now their best guy is again a pro-style guy, or Florida with Tim Tebow being followed by Brantley...or Ohio State, which I don't know much about, but it's not like Pryor is for sure going to be replaced with some read option QB. IMO for project guys, the light has to come on to run with them and if not, we will need QBs that can QB to build the offense around. It's no help in our offense to have a QB that can't do those fundamental QB things. Maybe we are trying to evolve past that as Oregon perhaps has done, but I'm skeptical as long as we are trying to do that with Barney and with WCO principles in the passing game.

[Vuren]

Watson tries to get too fancy with his playcalling instead of just sticking with what's working. For instance in the Oklahoma game the plays that were working were runs between the tackles, and Burkhead in the wildcat. But, Watson tried to force feed his supposed "specialty" with the read option that was downright useless when you have a QB with two gimp legs. If Watson stuck with what worked Nebraska wins that game plain and simple

god what i would do for paul chryst.

[knapplc]

I love how every offensive problem we have is the fault of Bo, the players, or a mish-mash of the two. Watson, poor guy, is just borne along by the current created by guys above and below him, and has no responsibilities for the disappearing offense.

 

If there's one thing to take away from zoogies' posts, it's that no matter what is wrong with our offense, the one person whose fault it isn't is Shawn Watson's. That's the point from which all conversations start, then we extrapolate the data to support it.

[suh_fan93]

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[zoogs]

Watson is neither faultless nor the best coach in the world, but a lot of the flak he gets is really unfair. When all my posts are about is deflecting specific criticism I consider to be unfair and invalid, I know how it seems that way, but I think I am pretty scathing about his playcalling at the end of the game. I mean, there's stuff you can blame Carl for on defense, or Ron Brown, for example, but why would you? They are all doing solid jobs. Even guys who aren't doing as solid jobs, won't get fingers pointed at them because they are extremely popular for say, fake tattoos.

 

Anyway, Bo is the head coach, and he has become quite involved with the direction of the offense. There are a lot of problems I think partly as a result. Could Watson do better on his own? I don't know but it's a raw situation if his hands are tied in certain ways. Bo can and likely will change his approach, and we'll flourish. That's what I hope for and have faith in him to do. I can see how this is all disappointing if you just want to blame Watson categorically, though. If you have any reason why things I am saying about Bo or Taylor are unfair, other than you don't like that they are being subject to criticism, I would love a debate that as I think it'd be quite interesting. I'm not calling for Bo's head here either and I will root for Taylor as long as he is with the program.

[mnhusker]

I like this read ........ poor play calling, manic under pressure and over all is a paper tiger when the going gets tough. My thought on Watson

 

 

 

 

Dirk Chatelain Articl

[kchusker_chris]

Forget the offensive coordinator. Bo should fire the coach responsible for taylor martinez not being prepared for situations like this. oh wait, same guy.

 

I do think it's ironic how it was Green at the start of the season who looked EXACTLY like Taylor did in the OU game. Poor ball security, deer-in-headlights look every time the pocket collapsed. I screamed at the TV "hold on to the ball" every time Green scrambled early in the year. I repeated that no less than 10 times during the OU game to Taylor - if only he had heard me.

 

I admit had written Green off, and I'm still not convinced...but he certainly progressed this year against all odds, whereas Taylor regressed. Blame it on the injury all you want, but the injury didn't cause him to fumble those balls, make those bad decisions, etc. Blame it on being a freshman, but with a redshirt year and 11 games under your belt, hanging the ball to your side one handed while the pocket is collapsing is not acceptable - it's QB101, day 1 type of teaching. But that would mean he'd have a coach, and I am not sure Watson coaches. Z. Taylor was delivered on a platter straight from a JUCO championship. Keller from Arizona St. Ganz had so many years in the system it would have been hard for him to be all that bad. same with Lee to an extent last year. Watson's really only been asked to "coach" a couple quarterbacks here. I can't see a single one that has really improved. Look at other QB's around the league, and how they progress season to season. Lee could have done that, why didn't he? Green could have, why didn't he? Only one person can answer that...and he's "sticking to his system" - a system proved inneffective.

[knapplc]

Watson is neither faultless nor the best coach in the world, but a lot of the flak he gets is really unfair.

 

What is the unfair flak Watson gets? Mostly I see his development of players being called into question (same for Gilmore's players) and his offensive playcalling. Watson has responsibility for those two things. What is unfair about calling him out on those areas in which he is directly responsible?

[suh_fan93]

I like this read ........ poor play calling, manic under pressure and over all is a paper tiger when the going gets tough. My thought on Watson

 

 

 

 

Dirk Chatelain Articl

Great article. Every day I wake up and hope that the headline reads 'Watson accepts Vanderbilt offer'. I really, really, really do not want to see him still on out staff in 2011. If so next year we could go through the very same thing the article pointed out all over again...

 

Let's hope not.

[zoogs]

Z.Taylor was delivered on a platter straight from a JUCO championship. Keller from Arizona St. Ganz had so many years in the system it would have been hard for him to be all that bad. same with Lee to an extent last year

 

That's just naive...

 

FWIW, Watson had nothing to do with Taylor. Taylor's last year was 2006, when Watson coached TEs and was recruiting coordinator. Unless someone who knows more about the situation says different I would say Taylor is a pure Callahan product, along with Norvell. I think you are confusing Taylor with Lee with regard to the JUCO championship by the way, but I could be wrong.

 

Blame it on being a freshman, but with a redshirt year and 11 games under your belt, hanging the ball to your side one handed while the pocket is collapsing is not acceptable - it's QB101, day 1 type of teaching.

 

OK, to be clear here, I hope nobody has taken all of this stuff I've said regarding Taylor as "Taylor should be further along than he is." I don't think that is a realistic expectation given from where Taylor started. It is a lot to digest and he has done a solid job of growing into the role. He has progressed farther than most thought, I'd say. That's a credit to both Taylor and to his coach, who is a quality QB coach no matter how you may not want to believe that. But no matter what, the raw kid that was a scout team receiver a year ago, was going to have problems in all of those areas, but would bring value to us with his running ability to make up for it. That is just a summary of the reality of the situation. When I point at the pick or fumble or sacks and say it's Taylor's fault, that's true enough but it doesn't mean I expect Taylor to be better than that, since the inconsistency/cold spells of it all are just part of the situation that we signed up for with him. He is the one who got us here to the CCG, after all.

 

Why didn't Lee progress? Because he got hurt, duh. Why didn't Green? Because he came in here not ready either and was thrown to the wolves right away. Why don't we have anyone else? D'oh...bad luck with QB recruiting, I guess. I guess my point is you could bring in any QB coach and some players just would not be ready in this time frame, that's the reality of it. Not calling the players dumb, but their backgrounds and starting points and skillsets just dictate that.

[zoogs]

Watson is neither faultless nor the best coach in the world, but a lot of the flak he gets is really unfair.

 

What is the unfair flak Watson gets? Mostly I see his development of players being called into question (same for Gilmore's players) and his offensive playcalling. Watson has responsibility for those two things. What is unfair about calling him out on those areas in which he is directly responsible?

 

For your second question, I think all of my posts on this matter are just trying to answer exactly that. You can't say Watson is to blame for not developing Taylor while at the same time realizing that Taylor was a huge project that had an incredibly long way to go towards being a legitimate QB. Sometimes, it really just is the players, and even a good coach won't turn every player he touches into gold. You can't blame Tim Beck for not developing Collins Okafor or Lester Ward after all their time here, or Marvin Sanders for struggles Courtney Osborne has had (that's an injury situation, though). It's not Ron Brown's fault that we've seen nothing come out of J.T. Kerr, or Sanders again if Lazarri Middleton is cracking the rotation. I don't presume to know the particulars of all those situations, but those are some good position coaches with players that aren't progressing - and others that are.

 

Green has developed, Lee has developed. Lee has found up hurt two years now and Green just had a long way to go from the start, as well. Ganz flourished under the system and we were hearing good things about Witt and Spano before they got hurt, in addition to the good things we are hearing about Brion right now. Really I think Watson's value as QB coach is being completely ignored in an attempt to find something else to put him down in. I ripped the playcalling at the end of the OU game, and I'll stand by that, even though as I explained earlier I don't touch on the subject usually given how often misunderstood it is, and knowing how little I truly understand of it. I will say that Venables left Watson in the dust on Saturday though, straight up and no questions asked.

 

Lots of things are unfair about the criticism Watson gets. We have nothing but a volatile work-in-progress 3rd string to play QB for a few games and it's Watson's fault when we struggle. Taylor is injured, but it's Watson's fault because he can't find a way to design an explosive offense around an ineffective quarterback. The playbook is too simple, which is Watson's fault despite the reality being Taylor can't handle too much, being a redshirt freshman that is as raw as he is. I've even seen people saying we don't have good receiver development, which is Watson's fault because...receivers are on offense, and Watson coaches offense, I guess. There's stuff like we don't have enough of an identity, and then stuff like we keep running the zone read and stick stubbornly to it. I guess we do have an identity, just the wrong one when it isn't working. But it's not like people really want being able to have m------- identities anyway (bad word self-censored). In the meantime, the completely explosive offense that puts up 533 on Wash, 587 on KSU, 540 on OSU, and 454 on Missouri is forgotten. Yeah, they aren't all great defenses, and yeah there were bad games too, but how this is not a complete quantum leap from a year ago, is beyond me. And then when we questionably stuck with Taylor in the OU game which is Watson's fault, too...even though Bo is the one who made that call.

[Axl_sued_me]

Nevermind.

[holvy83]

I love how every offensive problem we have is the fault of Bo, the players, or a mish-mash of the two. Watson, poor guy, is just borne along by the current created by guys above and below him, and has no responsibilities for the disappearing offense.

 

If there's one thing to take away from zoogies' posts, it's that no matter what is wrong with our offense, the one person whose fault it isn't is Shawn Watson's. That's the point from which all conversations start, then we extrapolate the data to support it.

 

OK, but who got the blame for Cosgroves D? Callahan. But Bo has nothing to do with Watson's O? OK... Callahan got crucified b/c the defense sucked, which was he not the offensive guy? But Watson gets all the blame for the offense, b/c Bo is the defensive guy... Does anyone besides me not see the similarity? All i read on here on how terrible a coach Watson is, but the line has been drawn b/c the HEAD COACH is the defensive guru? Sorry but you can't blame Watson without a side of BO, or does Bo not recruit offensive players, or evaluate HIS offensive staff during the season? I don't care if he stays or goes, but not going to sit here and follow along with all the garble that it is all WATSONS FAULT!