Carnes Starter?

[The Dude]

I guess the only reason I would like to see Martinez start is because I'm tired of seeing a new starter at QB every year. He showed what he can be at Manhattan and Stillwater. A lot of college QB's go their whole careers without having games like that, Taylor did it as a frosh. Did he have setbacks? Absolutely. But I'm not convinced Carnes is immune to those freshmen growing pains. He'll absolutely have setbacks if he starts as a freshmen, I'll put money on it. If he is good enough to take the job away from Taylor, then holy cow we're in good shape at QB. We'll have the best backup in the country. I'll leave it to the coaches to decide who gives us the best chance to win. I don't know nearly enough about Carnes to know he gives us the best shot, neither do any of you. I'll 100% support whoever they trot out there.

[Husker from Kansas]

I guess the only reason I would like to see Martinez start is because I'm tired of seeing a new starter at QB every year. He showed what he can be at Manhattan and Stillwater. A lot of college QB's go their whole careers without having games like that, Taylor did it as a frosh. Did he have setbacks? Absolutely. But I'm not convinced Carnes is immune to those freshmen growing pains. He'll absolutely have setbacks if he starts as a freshmen, I'll put money on it. If he is good enough to take the job away from Taylor, then holy cow we're in good shape at QB. We'll have the best backup in the country. I'll leave it to the coaches to decide who gives us the best chance to win. I don't know nearly enough about Carnes to know he gives us the best shot, neither do any of you. I'll 100% support whoever they trot out there.

 

i feel the same way, all that matters in the end is that we win.

[Husker from Kansas]

yea, so ummmmmmmm....... why do people call you the pine apple? jw

 

 

Apparently someone thought that was a way to slander me or something. I thought it was so absurd I wore a pineapple as an avatar for a while.

 

is see, and yes that is an odd insult to say the least

[Hujan]

I agree with much of what you said, Dude. But let's be clear about one thing: Martinez did not have "setbacks." Post Missouri, he was a complete and total failure as a QB. Complete and total. It's not that he wasn't "quite as good" as he was at Manhattan and Stillwater; he was terrible, and arguably one of the worst QBs in Division I-A.

 

Now, the question is: How much of that drop off was due to his injury versus inherent flaws in his game? This is a question on which reasonable minds can differ.

 

But if you believe that much of that late-season failure would have happened regardless of his health status, then you have ample reason to be concerned about a Martinez-led team, unless Beck---unlike Watson---has found a way to scheme around Martinez's limitations.

 

On the other hand, even if you believe that injuries are to blame for much of, if not the entire, late-season failure, you still can't be too excited about Martinez leading the team in 2011 given that his injuries have apparently not healed some 5 months later.

[robsker]

I guess the only reason I would like to see Martinez start is because I'm tired of seeing a new starter at QB every year. He showed what he can be at Manhattan and Stillwater. A lot of college QB's go their whole careers without having games like that, Taylor did it as a frosh. Did he have setbacks? Absolutely. But I'm not convinced Carnes is immune to those freshmen growing pains. He'll absolutely have setbacks if he starts as a freshmen, I'll put money on it. If he is good enough to take the job away from Taylor, then holy cow we're in good shape at QB. We'll have the best backup in the country. I'll leave it to the coaches to decide who gives us the best chance to win. I don't know nearly enough about Carnes to know he gives us the best shot, neither do any of you. I'll 100% support whoever they trot out there.

 

 

Dude... are you serious? If TMart is a backup do you really think he'd be the best backup QB in the country?!! Man... on 80% of the teams he'd be a WR or a safety... he is an athlete lining up at QB... Lots of programs would love to have him... but few would line him up at QB.

 

The rest of what you say here is great. We should all support whoever is out there and what you say about Carnes is spot on --- he is an unknown and if he were to start he'd be prone to inexperience.. sure. And correct again that TMart had some shinning moments... though I must add that he had horrifying ones too (far too many of them).

[knapplc]

On the other hand, even if you believe that injuries are to blame for much of, if not the entire, late-season failure, you still can't be too excited about Martinez leading the team in 2011 given that his injuries have apparently not healed some 5 months later.

 

Everything we hear from Taylor and the coaches says he's fully healed.

[307husker]

They also have some ocean front property in AZ if you're interested...

[Joe_5700]

Thus, no matter how good the defense will be, given the predicted state of the offense, and the unknown nature of special teams, and then combine that with the schedule difficulty... well... prepare for a 5 loss season or so. It will still be fun and will still be interesting... but lets get real here folks... this upcoming season will be more rocky than smooth. Outside pundits are way over stating our case as national contenders.. it sells well. But insiders like us should know... NU is in for a rocky season.

 

This is presuming that none of our 2010 offensive struggles had anything to do with our #1 QB's debilitating injury(ies), our #2 QB going down at the same time, our #3 QB suffering a concussion in his first start, our OC and WR coaches having checked out mid-season since they knew this was their last season at Nebraska, our O-Line coach being incapable/overwhelmed, and sundry injuries to our linemen in general. That's a difficult presumption to make.

 

Granted, it is also difficult to presume that we've got all these problems fixed. We're breaking in a new OC and WR coach, a new offensive philosophy, we do not know yet how well mentally and physically our #1 QB will heal, and we do not know if our O Line will improve. So that's a bit of a toss-up, but I would not be concerned that we're going to score less than we scored last year. I would presume, worst case, that we'll score about the same.

 

Last year's opponents had an average Scoring Defense rank of 63.5 (26.6 PPG). In-conference their ranks averaged to 56.6 (25.5 PPG).

 

This year's opponents, using last year's numbers, have an average Scoring Defense rank of 59.8 (57.5 PPG). In-conference their ranks averaged to 51.1 (24.4 PPG).

 

Not a significantly more difficult schedule trying to score against these defenses - although it is important to note that such comparisons are difficult due to graduation, coaching changes, etc.

 

 

Your presumptions as to my presumptions are not accurate. Certainly our offensive struggles were, in part, due to the QB's injury last year and also to other injuries. I assume that this year too there will be injuries as well... no one can predict how so relative to last year... but most years there will be some injuries. Our struggles against good defenses, however, transcend those injuries from last year and are both systemic and talent based. Those systemic issues may, or may not, be as much of an issue this year... who knows... we have a partial new staff and a supposed new system (remains to be seen).

 

My actual presumptions that lead me to say that we will improve some (likely) but not enough to be above the category of "still struggling to score" is that the QB talent in what has been field tested (TMart) is not impressive (taken as a package --- running, throwing, turnovers, decision making, durability, leadership, etc.). A healthy and more experienced TMart will likely be better --- but if so, we have not seen that improvement (he had a month to heal and work out his issues of mechanics, decision making etc. after last regular season and prior to the bowl and, in the bowl game, showed regression rather than progression --- and he had from the time of the bowl game to the Spring game, that is, months... to improve... and showed, in the Spring game, again no progression). So, he'd almost have to improve some... but that is just because he aught to... but, we have no evidence that he has improved. Again, don't pull the turf toe/ankle issue and that he is not yet healed --- that may be --- but that does not explain why his decision making, his throwing mechanics, his turnovers have shown no improvement. It explains why his running ability is still compromised, sure... but.

 

I also mentioned that the defenses of the opponents next year will be better than those from last year... and your numbers bear that out... but do not capture what I surmise is the reality that the difference is greater than those numbers indicate.

 

An unstated presumption (not even implied in my earlier post) is that the number of penalties, the number of dropped passes, the number of fumbles that held back our past offensive productivity --- and the proclivity that this team has for showing up unfocused and ill prepared --- well, that will likely hold us back again.

 

The Spring game was way sloppy... watch the televised Spring games of other teams and you will see that NU had way more penalties, more drops and more fumbles than did those that were televised for other teams. I'd guess that lack of discipline will haunt our offense again.

 

Yep... we will likely have trouble scoring again. Might be modestly better. But we will still struggle.

 

Robsker, as I recall the Spring Games from 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1997 were all far from perfect in terms of execution...

[DTrain2020]

The only reason why people are courting Carnes and dogging Taylor is because Carnes hasnt been given the oppurtunity fo F**k up yet. People are making him out to be the next coming of Christ after he had a decent SPRING GAME.

[BIG ERN]

The only reason why people are courting Carnes and dogging Taylor is because Carnes hasnt been given the oppurtunity fo F**k up yet. People are making him out to be the next coming of Christ after he had a decent SPRING GAME.

 

Although Carnes did have a good spring game that isn't fully the reason. Did you not watch the end of last year? It was absolutely pathetic. Obviously stats wise it was horrible, but his attitude was even worse, and he still isn't fully healthy. I think Taylor and Carnes can take us far. Just have to trust Bo and his decision.

[Enhance]

The only reason why people are courting Carnes and dogging Taylor is because Carnes hasnt been given the oppurtunity fo F**k up yet. People are making him out to be the next coming of Christ after he had a decent SPRING GAME.

 

Although Carnes did have a good spring game that isn't fully the reason. Did you not watch the end of last year? It was absolutely pathetic. Obviously stats wise it was horrible, but his attitude was even worse, and he still isn't fully healthy. I think Taylor and Carnes can take us far. Just have to trust Bo and his decision.

The greater majority (mainly the second half) of 2009 was pathetic. People clamored for Martinez during the spring/fall and low-and-behold he started in 2010. He got injured, and the offense was pathetic to finish out another season.

 

Two seasons in a row, two different quarterbacks and both offenses were just embarrassing against above average competition.

 

I'm not clamoring for either quarterback, and obviously Martinez was a problem. How could he not be with the way he played to finish 2010? But two years in a row our offenses failed after injuries to our quarterback, which says a lot to me about the TEAM than just the quarterback. Championship teams should be able to perform better than they did when the starter got hurt, and I blame that more on Watson and his offensive unit as a whole than I do Martinez.

 

I still feel today that our offensive line and the coaching is the weakest facet of this team.

[robsker]

On the other hand, even if you believe that injuries are to blame for much of, if not the entire, late-season failure, you still can't be too excited about Martinez leading the team in 2011 given that his injuries have apparently not healed some 5 months later.

 

Everything we hear from Taylor and the coaches says he's fully healed.

 

 

Well... not everything.... TMart has said recently that when he cuts he still feels a twinge and that he is cautious re: hard cuts.

 

Also, even if the "party line" is that he is healed (or very close to being healed) --- which I do not think is the case --- the proof is in the pudding... so to speak. If he were really healed, his first step explosiveness would have returned.... or, at least, a really significant subset of the quickness would return. The Spring game did not bear this out at all. TMart looked only modestly quick... no more. Nothing special or even remotely like his pre-injury self. So... I remain unconvinced that he is healed --- or, at least unconvinced that he has even a significant subset of his pre-injury wheels.

[knapplc]

On the other hand, even if you believe that injuries are to blame for much of, if not the entire, late-season failure, you still can't be too excited about Martinez leading the team in 2011 given that his injuries have apparently not healed some 5 months later.

 

Everything we hear from Taylor and the coaches says he's fully healed.

 

 

Well... not everything.... TMart has said recently that when he cuts he still feels a twinge and that he is cautious re: hard cuts.

 

Also, even if the "party line" is that he is healed (or very close to being healed) --- which I do not think is the case --- the proof is in the pudding... so to speak. If he were really healed, his first step explosiveness would have returned.... or, at least, a really significant subset of the quickness would return. The Spring game did not bear this out at all. TMart looked only modestly quick... no more. Nothing special or even remotely like his pre-injury self. So... I remain unconvinced that he is healed --- or, at least unconvinced that he has even a significant subset of his pre-injury wheels.

 

You are correct, sir. He did say that he still feels twinges, I remember reading that now. And he did not show that crazy burst in the Spring Game.

[robsker]

The only reason why people are courting Carnes and dogging Taylor is because Carnes hasnt been given the oppurtunity fo F**k up yet. People are making him out to be the next coming of Christ after he had a decent SPRING GAME.

 

Although Carnes did have a good spring game that isn't fully the reason. Did you not watch the end of last year? It was absolutely pathetic. Obviously stats wise it was horrible, but his attitude was even worse, and he still isn't fully healthy. I think Taylor and Carnes can take us far. Just have to trust Bo and his decision.

The greater majority (mainly the second half) of 2009 was pathetic. People clamored for Martinez during the spring/fall and low-and-behold he started in 2010. He got injured, and the offense was pathetic to finish out another season.

 

Two seasons in a row, two different quarterbacks and both offenses were just embarrassing against above average competition.

 

I'm not clamoring for either quarterback, and obviously Martinez was a problem. How could he not be with the way he played to finish 2010? But two years in a row our offenses failed after injuries to our quarterback, which says a lot to me about the TEAM than just the quarterback. Championship teams should be able to perform better than they did when the starter got hurt, and I blame that more on Watson and his offensive unit as a whole than I do Martinez.

 

I still feel today that our offensive line and the coaching is the weakest facet of this team.

 

Enhance:

 

You state that : "Championship teams should be able to perform better than they did when the starter got hurt..."

 

I agree wholeheartedly. That said, NU is not a championship team --- when did we last win a conference? NU is nowhere near a championship team --- just a decent team, a fringe top 25 team... no more. It is just that our fans --- especially on this site --- somehow think NU is more and have expectations that are out of sync with what the immediate past or the present would suggest is reasonable.

 

We love our team... we all do. And, seemingly, many on this site see NU red like the NU red of the early 70's and the mid 1990's when we think of NU football --- or, at least project onto this team the expectations we had of those teams.

 

I reiterate... NU is so long removed from being a championship-level team that expecting from NU championship-level performance is well... really hopeful and not to realistic.

 

We have all sorts of problems on the NU team --- and I agree with you when you say that "our offensive line and the coaching is the weakest facet of this team." I can only add that the WR and Qb positions are also problematic as well --- both talent wise and coaching wise (or, at least we had coaching problems there... what we have now remains to be seen... but could not hardly get worse, could it?)

[The Dude]

I guess the only reason I would like to see Martinez start is because I'm tired of seeing a new starter at QB every year. He showed what he can be at Manhattan and Stillwater. A lot of college QB's go their whole careers without having games like that, Taylor did it as a frosh. Did he have setbacks? Absolutely. But I'm not convinced Carnes is immune to those freshmen growing pains. He'll absolutely have setbacks if he starts as a freshmen, I'll put money on it. If he is good enough to take the job away from Taylor, then holy cow we're in good shape at QB. We'll have the best backup in the country. I'll leave it to the coaches to decide who gives us the best chance to win. I don't know nearly enough about Carnes to know he gives us the best shot, neither do any of you. I'll 100% support whoever they trot out there.

 

 

Dude... are you serious? If TMart is a backup do you really think he'd be the best backup QB in the country?!! Man... on 80% of the teams he'd be a WR or a safety... he is an athlete lining up at QB... Lots of programs would love to have him... but few would line him up at QB.

 

The rest of what you say here is great. We should all support whoever is out there and what you say about Carnes is spot on --- he is an unknown and if he were to start he'd be prone to inexperience.. sure. And correct again that TMart had some shinning moments... though I must add that he had horrifying ones too (far too many of them).

Yes. I was serious.