Sad or happy we don't play Iowa State anymore?

[holvy83]

i will miss playing ISU, some of my best friends are ISU alums, and always had a great time getting together in Ames, and now have no good reason to get to Ames since NU probably wont "ever" be back.

[knapplc]

I'm starting to understand more how much politics ruined things, I just have a hard time imagining how it could happen so quickly and so thoroughly to destroy 100 years of history in just a few years. Going from a conference that was enjoying perfect harmony just a few years earlier to one in shambles and hatred. It's a little frightening because if it can happen to the Big 8 it can happen to the Big Ten.

Again, you don't seem to understand that there was no great feeling of harmony in the Big 8. The Big Ten was and is a completely different kind of conference than the Big 8 and Big XII.

 

You keep trying to imply that Nebraska and Iowa State were these great buddies walking arm-in-arm through life when it was more analogous to a business arrangement than a friendship. There was no animosity, but no great love either. And that's on both sides of the relationship. It's not as if ISU and their fans have ever cared that much about Nebraska. Mostly they've always considered us like the bully on the block - at least, through my lifetime anyway. There was no friendship, no chumminess. They're not sad to see us depart just as much as we're not sad to go.

[biggie]

I'm starting to understand more how much politics ruined things, I just have a hard time imagining how it could happen so quickly and so thoroughly to destroy 100 years of history in just a few years. Going from a conference that was enjoying perfect harmony just a few years earlier to one in shambles and hatred. It's a little frightening because if it can happen to the Big 8 it can happen to the Big Ten.

Again, you don't seem to understand that there was no great feeling of harmony in the Big 8. The Big Ten was and is a completely different kind of conference than the Big 8 and Big XII.

 

You keep trying to imply that Nebraska and Iowa State were these great buddies walking arm-in-arm through life when it was more analogous to a business arrangement than a friendship. There was no animosity, but no great love either. And that's on both sides of the relationship. It's not as if ISU and their fans have ever cared that much about Nebraska. Mostly they've always considered us like the bully on the block - at least, through my lifetime anyway. There was no friendship, no chumminess. They're not sad to see us depart just as much as we're not sad to go.

 

I've never said one thing about Big 8 schools being great friends and I'm not trying to imply anything. Stop making it up. In fact, I've never even said the Big Ten schools are great friends. What I said was, they love being part of the Big Ten conference and they generally respect each other's institutions if not their sports teams.

 

I'm trying to learn more about how the Big 8 operated and how it fell apart and I'm getting some conflicting opinions.

 

As for Big 8 harmony, Hercules said the old Big 8 was just as tight knit as the Big Ten. Other posters said their was a lot of mutual respect in the old Big 8. Maybe you disagree but their opinions sound a lot like the Big Ten to me. Maybe they're wrong, I'm just trying to learn a thing or two here.

[Saunders]

I agree with everything you said. I completely understand you wanting to get away from the Texas schools. My only comment was surprise you didn't have more respect for the 100 year old relationships with the Big 8 schools like ISU. By respect I mean sorry to see the relationship end while knowing it was the right move to leave. There were comments about how ISU was like an easily replaceable toilet. I was surprised there wasn't more respect for such a long history together.

How would you feel, after being married for 50 years, if you found out your wife was cheating on you? And she was doing it with some scumbag (Texas) who lied and seduced her, for the sole purpose of destroying everything you've worked for in your life.

 

That's ISU.

 

Not a great analogy, but close. ISU sold their soul to Texas to compete. They couldn't get better, so they (and the rest of the Big 8) allied with Texas so that they could knock NU off.

[biggie]

I agree with everything you said. I completely understand you wanting to get away from the Texas schools. My only comment was surprise you didn't have more respect for the 100 year old relationships with the Big 8 schools like ISU. By respect I mean sorry to see the relationship end while knowing it was the right move to leave. There were comments about how ISU was like an easily replaceable toilet. I was surprised there wasn't more respect for such a long history together.

How would you feel, after being married for 50 years, if you found out your wife was cheating on you? And she was doing it with some scumbag who lied and seduced her, for the sole purpose of destroying everything you've worked for in your life.

 

That's ISU.

 

I understand that now. I didn't realize exactly how deep the politics of the Big 12 went. The only thing I still don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be as much anger toward Oklahoma when it seems like they had more power to stand up to Texas than any of the other Big 12 schools other than Nebraska. Maybe the anger toward OU is there and I missed it.

[In the Deed the Glory]

I agree with everything you said. I completely understand you wanting to get away from the Texas schools. My only comment was surprise you didn't have more respect for the 100 year old relationships with the Big 8 schools like ISU. By respect I mean sorry to see the relationship end while knowing it was the right move to leave. There were comments about how ISU was like an easily replaceable toilet. I was surprised there wasn't more respect for such a long history together.

How would you feel, after being married for 50 years, if you found out your wife was cheating on you? And she was doing it with some scumbag who lied and seduced her, for the sole purpose of destroying everything you've worked for in your life.

 

That's ISU.

 

I understand that now. I didn't realize exactly how deep the politics of the Big 12 went. The only thing I still don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be as much anger toward Oklahoma when it seems like they had more power to stand up to Texas than any of the other Big 12 schools other than Nebraska. Maybe the anger toward OU is there and I missed it.

 

Seems to me you are missing a lot in this thread...

[biggie]

I agree with everything you said. I completely understand you wanting to get away from the Texas schools. My only comment was surprise you didn't have more respect for the 100 year old relationships with the Big 8 schools like ISU. By respect I mean sorry to see the relationship end while knowing it was the right move to leave. There were comments about how ISU was like an easily replaceable toilet. I was surprised there wasn't more respect for such a long history together.

How would you feel, after being married for 50 years, if you found out your wife was cheating on you? And she was doing it with some scumbag who lied and seduced her, for the sole purpose of destroying everything you've worked for in your life.

 

That's ISU.

 

I understand that now. I didn't realize exactly how deep the politics of the Big 12 went. The only thing I still don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be as much anger toward Oklahoma when it seems like they had more power to stand up to Texas than any of the other Big 12 schools other than Nebraska. Maybe the anger toward OU is there and I missed it.

 

Seems to me you are missing a lot in this thread...

 

There's no need to be a jerk. Somehow I doubt your knowledge of the Big Ten is all that terrific.

[Saunders]

I agree with everything you said. I completely understand you wanting to get away from the Texas schools. My only comment was surprise you didn't have more respect for the 100 year old relationships with the Big 8 schools like ISU. By respect I mean sorry to see the relationship end while knowing it was the right move to leave. There were comments about how ISU was like an easily replaceable toilet. I was surprised there wasn't more respect for such a long history together.

How would you feel, after being married for 50 years, if you found out your wife was cheating on you? And she was doing it with some scumbag who lied and seduced her, for the sole purpose of destroying everything you've worked for in your life.

 

That's ISU.

 

I understand that now. I didn't realize exactly how deep the politics of the Big 12 went. The only thing I still don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be as much anger toward Oklahoma when it seems like they had more power to stand up to Texas than any of the other Big 12 schools other than Nebraska. Maybe the anger toward OU is there and I missed it.

There is. At least from a decent amount of folk.

[biggie]

I agree with everything you said. I completely understand you wanting to get away from the Texas schools. My only comment was surprise you didn't have more respect for the 100 year old relationships with the Big 8 schools like ISU. By respect I mean sorry to see the relationship end while knowing it was the right move to leave. There were comments about how ISU was like an easily replaceable toilet. I was surprised there wasn't more respect for such a long history together.

How would you feel, after being married for 50 years, if you found out your wife was cheating on you? And she was doing it with some scumbag who lied and seduced her, for the sole purpose of destroying everything you've worked for in your life.

 

That's ISU.

 

I understand that now. I didn't realize exactly how deep the politics of the Big 12 went. The only thing I still don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be as much anger toward Oklahoma when it seems like they had more power to stand up to Texas than any of the other Big 12 schools other than Nebraska. Maybe the anger toward OU is there and I missed it.

There is. At least from a decent amount of folk.

 

Do you think if the Big 12 split up divisions more like the Big Ten it would have lasted? Maybe the Texas schools with Colorado and Missouri in the south and move the Oklahoma schools north?

[jsneb83]

I agree with everything you said. I completely understand you wanting to get away from the Texas schools. My only comment was surprise you didn't have more respect for the 100 year old relationships with the Big 8 schools like ISU. By respect I mean sorry to see the relationship end while knowing it was the right move to leave. There were comments about how ISU was like an easily replaceable toilet. I was surprised there wasn't more respect for such a long history together.

How would you feel, after being married for 50 years, if you found out your wife was cheating on you? And she was doing it with some scumbag who lied and seduced her, for the sole purpose of destroying everything you've worked for in your life.

 

That's ISU.

 

I understand that now. I didn't realize exactly how deep the politics of the Big 12 went. The only thing I still don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be as much anger toward Oklahoma when it seems like they had more power to stand up to Texas than any of the other Big 12 schools other than Nebraska. Maybe the anger toward OU is there and I missed it.

Oklahoma is like your best friend you've known for almost your whole life, and they marry someone (Texas) who you don't see eye to eye with and always fight when you get together. You are still friends with the guy, you just don't hang out with him as much cause you can't stand his wife.

[Saunders]

I agree with everything you said. I completely understand you wanting to get away from the Texas schools. My only comment was surprise you didn't have more respect for the 100 year old relationships with the Big 8 schools like ISU. By respect I mean sorry to see the relationship end while knowing it was the right move to leave. There were comments about how ISU was like an easily replaceable toilet. I was surprised there wasn't more respect for such a long history together.

How would you feel, after being married for 50 years, if you found out your wife was cheating on you? And she was doing it with some scumbag who lied and seduced her, for the sole purpose of destroying everything you've worked for in your life.

 

That's ISU.

 

I understand that now. I didn't realize exactly how deep the politics of the Big 12 went. The only thing I still don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be as much anger toward Oklahoma when it seems like they had more power to stand up to Texas than any of the other Big 12 schools other than Nebraska. Maybe the anger toward OU is there and I missed it.

There is. At least from a decent amount of folk.

 

Do you think if the Big 12 split up divisions more like the Big Ten it would have lasted? Maybe the Texas schools with Colorado and Missouri in the south and move the Oklahoma schools north?

It only would have last if they had ousted Texas, and replaced them.

[Hercules]

I'm starting to understand more how much politics ruined things, I just have a hard time imagining how it could happen so quickly and so thoroughly to destroy 100 years of history in just a few years. Going from a conference that was enjoying perfect harmony just a few years earlier to one in shambles and hatred. It's a little frightening because if it can happen to the Big 8 it can happen to the Big Ten.

Again, you don't seem to understand that there was no great feeling of harmony in the Big 8. The Big Ten was and is a completely different kind of conference than the Big 8 and Big XII.

 

You keep trying to imply that Nebraska and Iowa State were these great buddies walking arm-in-arm through life when it was more analogous to a business arrangement than a friendship. There was no animosity, but no great love either. And that's on both sides of the relationship. It's not as if ISU and their fans have ever cared that much about Nebraska. Mostly they've always considered us like the bully on the block - at least, through my lifetime anyway. There was no friendship, no chumminess. They're not sad to see us depart just as much as we're not sad to go.

 

I've never said one thing about Big 8 schools being great friends and I'm not trying to imply anything. Stop making it up. In fact, I've never even said the Big Ten schools are great friends. What I said was, they love being part of the Big Ten conference and they generally respect each other's institutions if not their sports teams.

 

I'm trying to learn more about how the Big 8 operated and how it fell apart and I'm getting some conflicting opinions.

 

As for Big 8 harmony, Hercules said the old Big 8 was just as tight knit as the Big Ten. Other posters said their was a lot of mutual respect in the old Big 8. Maybe you disagree but their opinions sound a lot like the Big Ten to me. Maybe they're wrong, I'm just trying to learn a thing or two here.

 

What I meant was that all of the schools of the old Big 8 were just as tight-knit (in terms of athletic departments, not academics) as the Big Ten. The thing that makes the Big Ten seem more tight knit is the power structure and the revenue sharing - those programs aren't competing with each other off the field nearly as much as the Big 8 programs were. Even with that said, the Big 8 was perfectly stable by itself, and until the formation of the Big 12, I don't think anybody wanted to leave.

 

However, what you HAVE to realize is that when you say "Big 8," you're talking about a conference that ceased to exist 15 years ago. Just because all of the Big 8 schools moved into the Big 12 does not mean anything. I think just about all Nebraska fans miss the Big 8 conference, but that happened a long time ago, not over the past few years. If you can't understand that the Big 8 and the Big 12 are ENTIRELY different entities, you're never going to understand why Nebraska fans aren't that broken up about leaving now.

 

You asked in another post about if the Big 12 would have lasted longer if they had setup the divisions better. It's possible it would have lasted a few years longer - Nebraska might have stayed if we had a protected crossover with OU or were in the same division as them. That would have made it harder to leave. However, I think Colorado would have gone to the PAC-12 no matter what, I think Missouri would have still been begging for an invitation from the Big Ten, and the possible departure of both of those schools, along with Texas and company looking to form the PAC-16, would have forced Nebraska to look at its options. Nebraska fans are perfectly happy to leave the Big 12, we didn't like that conference, but we also weren't the ones that started this. Missouri wanted badly to leave, Colorado did leave, Texas threatened to leave and destroy the conference, and Nebraska jumped off what it thought was a sinking ship. I don't think different divisions would have changed any of that.

 

At the end of the day, the other poster who said that Texas is the key, nailed it. They're the curse on the Big 12. The conference won't exist without them, but their membership is also killing the conference. They will either end up independent, or in the SEC16 or PAC16, where they won't hold enough power to kill off the conference, like they did with the SWC and are doing with the Big 12.

[Nebula]

I understand that now. I didn't realize exactly how deep the politics of the Big 12 went. The only thing I still don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be as much anger toward Oklahoma when it seems like they had more power to stand up to Texas than any of the other Big 12 schools other than Nebraska. Maybe the anger toward OU is there and I missed it.

I've resented Oklahoma since 1996, but I'm 31. I missed a lot of the truly meaningful NU-OU match ups.

 

There are plenty of us who harbor some anger towards the Sooners, but I think we're in the minority. You'll get a lot of OU reverence out of Cornhusker fans. I bristle at it a little, but what are you gonna do? It's ingrained.

 

No one will ever convince me that OU couldn't have forced the collective Big 12 hand to keep us as an annual crossover rival, under some clear initial stance signifying the continued existence of the Husker-Sooner rivalry as a deal breaker in initial Big 12 discussions/negotiations. The hard truth is that Oklahoma valued Texas over Nebraska. For that, I wish them nothing but the shingles.

[Hercules]

I understand that now. I didn't realize exactly how deep the politics of the Big 12 went. The only thing I still don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be as much anger toward Oklahoma when it seems like they had more power to stand up to Texas than any of the other Big 12 schools other than Nebraska. Maybe the anger toward OU is there and I missed it.

I've resented Oklahoma since 1996, but I'm 31. I missed a lot of the truly meaningful NU-OU match ups.

 

There are plenty of us who harbor some anger towards the Sooners, but I think we're in the minority. You'll get a lot of OU reverence out of Cornhusker fans. I bristle at it a little, but what are you gonna do? It's ingrained.

 

No one will ever convince me that OU couldn't have forced the collective Big 12 hand to keep us as an annual crossover rival, under some clear initial stance signifying the continued existence of the Husker-Sooner rivalry as a deal breaker in initial Big 12 discussions/negotiations. The hard truth is that Oklahoma valued Texas over Nebraska. For that, I wish them nothing but the shingles.

 

I think everyone is at least a little ticked at Oklahoma. At the same time, I think if we had some stronger leadership in the conference, somebody like Delany, things could have turned out differently. In 1996, Delany might have said, "Ok, we're going to create two new divisions, but we're going to base them on competitive balance, while also protecting as many rivalries as we can. Oklahoma, you're going to continue to play Nebraska, as that will be one of the premier matchups in the conference (and one of the best money-makers). We know that you're worried about this creating a tougher schedule for you, but Texas will be playing Kansas State in their protected crossover, so they'll also have an extra challenging opponent every year (remember in 1996, Kansas State and Colorado were the two powers in the conference besides Nebraska - not Oklahoma or Texas - and KSU has owned Texas as bad as Texas owned us)."

 

If the Big 12 had somebody like Delany in charge, somebody who was a strong leader, who was proactive and who didn't give in to Texas' every whim, the Big 12 would be stronger than the Big Ten today. When you think about how much potential there was with the Big 12, you start gaining a new respect for the completely idiotic leadership that got it in the mess it's in today. Maybe it wasn't possible - maybe even Delany or Larry Scott wouldn't have been able to control Texas - but at least we saw Larry Scott reject Texas when they tried to take Baylor to the PAC 12 in place of Colorado. Anybody think Beebe would have done the same?

[biggie]

I'm starting to understand more how much politics ruined things, I just have a hard time imagining how it could happen so quickly and so thoroughly to destroy 100 years of history in just a few years. Going from a conference that was enjoying perfect harmony just a few years earlier to one in shambles and hatred. It's a little frightening because if it can happen to the Big 8 it can happen to the Big Ten.

Again, you don't seem to understand that there was no great feeling of harmony in the Big 8. The Big Ten was and is a completely different kind of conference than the Big 8 and Big XII.

 

You keep trying to imply that Nebraska and Iowa State were these great buddies walking arm-in-arm through life when it was more analogous to a business arrangement than a friendship. There was no animosity, but no great love either. And that's on both sides of the relationship. It's not as if ISU and their fans have ever cared that much about Nebraska. Mostly they've always considered us like the bully on the block - at least, through my lifetime anyway. There was no friendship, no chumminess. They're not sad to see us depart just as much as we're not sad to go.

 

I've never said one thing about Big 8 schools being great friends and I'm not trying to imply anything. Stop making it up. In fact, I've never even said the Big Ten schools are great friends. What I said was, they love being part of the Big Ten conference and they generally respect each other's institutions if not their sports teams.

 

I'm trying to learn more about how the Big 8 operated and how it fell apart and I'm getting some conflicting opinions.

 

As for Big 8 harmony, Hercules said the old Big 8 was just as tight knit as the Big Ten. Other posters said their was a lot of mutual respect in the old Big 8. Maybe you disagree but their opinions sound a lot like the Big Ten to me. Maybe they're wrong, I'm just trying to learn a thing or two here.

 

What I meant was that all of the schools of the old Big 8 were just as tight-knit (in terms of athletic departments, not academics) as the Big Ten. The thing that makes the Big Ten seem more tight knit is the power structure and the revenue sharing - those programs aren't competing with each other off the field nearly as much as the Big 8 programs were. Even with that said, the Big 8 was perfectly stable by itself, and until the formation of the Big 12, I don't think anybody wanted to leave.

 

However, what you HAVE to realize is that when you say "Big 8," you're talking about a conference that ceased to exist 15 years ago. Just because all of the Big 8 schools moved into the Big 12 does not mean anything. I think just about all Nebraska fans miss the Big 8 conference, but that happened a long time ago, not over the past few years. If you can't understand that the Big 8 and the Big 12 are ENTIRELY different entities, you're never going to understand why Nebraska fans aren't that broken up about leaving now.

 

You asked in another post about if the Big 12 would have lasted longer if they had setup the divisions better. It's possible it would have lasted a few years longer - Nebraska might have stayed if we had a protected crossover with OU or were in the same division as them. That would have made it harder to leave. However, I think Colorado would have gone to the PAC-12 no matter what, I think Missouri would have still been begging for an invitation from the Big Ten, and the possible departure of both of those schools, along with Texas and company looking to form the PAC-16, would have forced Nebraska to look at its options. Nebraska fans are perfectly happy to leave the Big 12, we didn't like that conference, but we also weren't the ones that started this. Missouri wanted badly to leave, Colorado did leave, Texas threatened to leave and destroy the conference, and Nebraska jumped off what it thought was a sinking ship. I don't think different divisions would have changed any of that.

 

At the end of the day, the other poster who said that Texas is the key, nailed it. They're the curse on the Big 12. The conference won't exist without them, but their membership is also killing the conference. They will either end up independent, or in the SEC16 or PAC16, where they won't hold enough power to kill off the conference, like they did with the SWC and are doing with the Big 12.

 

Thank you. I understand how different the Big 8 and Big 12 were. I greatly underestimated how much politics drove a wedge between the old Big 8 members. It seems to me things might have been different if the old Big 8 members had stuck together and stood up to Texas. It's really kind of sad it had to happen like that.

 

I'm still concerned about how quickly a solid conference like the Big 8 turned on each other. If it could happen to the Big 8 I think it could happen to the Big Ten. Should we be careful about adding a Notre Dame? I personally think moving to 14 or 16 teams would be a mistake.