Defensive Scheme too complicated?

[C N Red]

Since Bo got here, there has always been talk of how complicated his defense is and that it takes awhile to learn. I've always kind of believed this to a point, but I'm really starting to not buy into this kind of defense anymore. One big reason is because this leaves many talented and athletic guys not being able to play because they just can't get every nuance of the defense. It should not take 2-3 years to learn anything in football!!

 

Michigan brings in Greg Mattison who had a great gameplan for us and to all extents, his defense isn't easy to learn either. However, the Michigan players seem to have picked up things pretty quick given how well they rank in defensive catagories.

 

Anyways, I'm just getting tired of the we put players in position but they have to make plays excuse. How about giving them a defensive gameplan they can grab onto quickly, therefore not having to "think" too much so they can go out and use their athleticism and make the plays!

 

And I do not agree with the non-pass rush ends. We have to get our ends up the field to cause some havoc.

 

I am not a believer in the the 2 gap system being run as a base defense! It does have it's uses and can be used, but in college football it's not a good scheme. College football, and really all football, is about putting pressure on the QB and making him make decisions, many of which are going to be bad when pressed.

[druski_2k5]

This is a very good point.

 

I was talking to someone who was on the team during Bo's first year here in 2003. I asked him if his defense is "too complicated" as some have suggested here. He stated that "Bo's system is a good defense" [obviously], but that we don't have the "defensive line to make it work".

 

Seeing how we rarely blitz anyway and we just sit back in coverage, this would work IF we had the line to do it. Think of the last two years combined with a great secondary. One can make the other look good. The line may have made the secondary look good in 09, and the secondary may have just been *that* good last year, which it was.

 

The feeling I got from him, was that if we had a quicker defensive line that could put pressure on the quarterback from just rushing 4, things would be different.

 

I think we are reluctant to blitz because that will leave our secondary matched up in one on one situations, and we can all agree, this years secondary cannot lock down in man to man coverage. So blitzing from Cover 0 wouldn't work. My question is, why don't we see more zone blitzing then? I'm sure we have seen it from time to time. But it seems like all we do is rush a non-existent 4, leave everyone in coverage.

 

Eventually, with our secondary this year, someone will get open, hence why we have struggled so much. But most of that should be obvious to us all. I didn't get into technical terms with him, didn't have a lot of time, but he felt that the line makes things go in Bo's offense and they need to put pressure to make everything work.

[C N Red]

One thing I keep thinking about is playing more zone coverage instead of so much match up! I don't know the last time we did that. One game we really could have used it was the Northwestern game. They were running crossing routes and guys over the middle, and our guys were having trouble keeping up to them. I definitely agree we need to switch up things more with a zone and blitzing out of that to try and get more pressure on the QB.

[druski_2k5]

I just remember watching in 2003, when we ran a more tradition 4-3 before the Spread explosion in the Big XII, guys were coming all the time.

 

Yes, we still had two safeties high, but out of a normal 4-3 or even a Nickel package, we were almost always bringing pressure somewhere. However, looking back at our 09 and 10 defenses, when we took on more Spread attacks, again, guys were coming from everywhere.

 

We bring a lot of pressure with our Nickle package, or Bo will always try to blitz one more defender than there is blockers. Which would leave our guys in Man Coverage all over the field with little to no safety help. Maybe we don't have the athleticism on defense to do all of those things. Maybe that's why we are just rushing 4 and dropping back. But if that's the case, then why do our highly touted defensive recruits not see the field more?

 

The guy I talked to said it wasn't "overly difficult" and the "learning curve" is a myth, so if that is truly the case, are we really playing our best players?

 

I don't want to second guess Bo on defense, in fact, looking at his philosophy on defense, it is very very sound. But you need the athletes to run it. Like we had the last two years. Maybe we just don't have those guys up to speed.

 

But one would think athleticism would surely trump knowledge of any system.

 

Look at the LSU/Alabama game. The safety bit on a play-action on that HB pass. The tight end was wide open, but the safety had enough athleticism to get back and intercept the pass, thus saving Alabama from getting at least a Field Goal on that drive and it went into over-time and they won.

 

Surely we have to have athletes back there on defense? Obviously these guys are athletic enough to play Division I Football, but are they the best we have? I would think Bo is smarter than that, and I don't want to question the defense, but it makes you wonder.

[Enhance]

This defense garnered few complaints in '09 and '10 when they were successful, and I think most here would agree that the offense has been the biggest reason why we've had such baffling losses over the years. Now, when we take a step defensively, we still have that same poor offense trying to rebuild under a new OC.

 

I don't think it's the system as much as it is the players. Lavonte David has been here what...two or three years? I think it's three years and two as a starter. He picked up everything asap and is going to go out as one of the best Nebraska linebackers ever. Same with guys like Dennard, Suh, Amukamara, Gomes, Dillard (to an extent), Hagg, and many others. A short amount of time - an excellent college pedigree. Every single one of those guys is, was, or will play in the NFL.

 

I'm beginning more and more to lean towards the idea that the players just aren't getting it or aren't athletic enough to get it. We've seen for two years now that the players can get it, and this bunch isn't for whatever reason. This might be why a guy like Thorell, who isn't nearly as physically gifted as other guys at his position, is starting. The guys under him don't get it, and the coaches are doing everything they can to make them get it. But I don't think it's because of complication. I think it's because of youth and poor execution. Both the players and the coaches are to blame to some degree.

[HeyBurke]

I think this is going to be a learning year for Bo and Carl. This has really been the first year that Bo has been coaching and he hasn't had the right personnel to do what he wants. He'll learn.

[Nexus]

This defense garnered few complaints in '09 and '10 when they were successful, and I think most here would agree that the offense has been the biggest reason why we've had such baffling losses over the years. Now, when we take a step defensively, we still have that same poor offense trying to rebuild under a new OC.

 

I don't think it's the system as much as it is the players. Lavonte David has been here what...two or three years? I think it's three years and two as a starter. He picked up everything asap and is going to go out as one of the best Nebraska linebackers ever. Same with guys like Dennard, Suh, Amukamara, Gomes, Dillard (to an extent), Hagg, and many others. A short amount of time - an excellent college pedigree. Every single one of those guys is, was, or will play in the NFL.

 

I'm beginning more and more to lean towards the idea that the players just aren't getting it. We've seen for two years now that the players can get it, and this bunch isn't for whatever reason.

 

David first arrived on campus July 2010.

[HeyBurke]

This defense garnered few complaints in '09 and '10 when they were successful, and I think most here would agree that the offense has been the biggest reason why we've had such baffling losses over the years. Now, when we take a step defensively, we still have that same poor offense trying to rebuild under a new OC.

 

I don't think it's the system as much as it is the players. Lavonte David has been here what...two or three years? I think it's three years and two as a starter. He picked up everything asap and is going to go out as one of the best Nebraska linebackers ever. Same with guys like Dennard, Suh, Amukamara, Gomes, Dillard (to an extent), Hagg, and many others. A short amount of time - an excellent college pedigree. Every single one of those guys is, was, or will play in the NFL.

 

I'm beginning more and more to lean towards the idea that the players just aren't getting it. We've seen for two years now that the players can get it, and this bunch isn't for whatever reason.

 

This.

 

There is a huge difference between Suh/Crick/Hagg/Gomes/Prince/Asante/O'Hanlon/Dillard/Fonzie/David and Fonzie/Rome/Baker/David/Compton/Green/Stanley/Ciante/Cassidy/Stafford.

[Enhance]

This defense garnered few complaints in '09 and '10 when they were successful, and I think most here would agree that the offense has been the biggest reason why we've had such baffling losses over the years. Now, when we take a step defensively, we still have that same poor offense trying to rebuild under a new OC.

 

I don't think it's the system as much as it is the players. Lavonte David has been here what...two or three years? I think it's three years and two as a starter. He picked up everything asap and is going to go out as one of the best Nebraska linebackers ever. Same with guys like Dennard, Suh, Amukamara, Gomes, Dillard (to an extent), Hagg, and many others. A short amount of time - an excellent college pedigree. Every single one of those guys is, was, or will play in the NFL.

 

I'm beginning more and more to lean towards the idea that the players just aren't getting it. We've seen for two years now that the players can get it, and this bunch isn't for whatever reason.

 

David first arrived on campus July 2010.

Thanks.

 

Goes to show my point though - this can be grasped quickly and easily. I don't think David is exceptionally intelligent, either. He just gets it and performs accordingly. The problem we need to figure out is whether or not the coaches aren't relaying the information effectively enough, or if we just don't have guys mature enough to deal with the defense yet.

[gobiggergoredder]

This defense garnered few complaints in '09 and '10 when they were successful, and I think most here would agree that the offense has been the biggest reason why we've had such baffling losses over the years. Now, when we take a step defensively, we still have that same poor offense trying to rebuild under a new OC.

 

I don't think it's the system as much as it is the players. Lavonte David has been here what...two or three years? I think it's three years and two as a starter. He picked up everything asap and is going to go out as one of the best Nebraska linebackers ever. Same with guys like Dennard, Suh, Amukamara, Gomes, Dillard (to an extent), Hagg, and many others. A short amount of time - an excellent college pedigree. Every single one of those guys is, was, or will play in the NFL.

 

I'm beginning more and more to lean towards the idea that the players just aren't getting it. We've seen for two years now that the players can get it, and this bunch isn't for whatever reason.

 

David first arrived on campus July 2010.

 

Lavonte David was thrown into the fire because Compton got hurt. How would you have any idea about David's intelligence?

[druski_2k5]

You can say "guys don't get it" which is a possible argument, and a valid one.

 

However....

 

Since we prepared a more traditional 4-3 defense this year, just like in 2003, where are the younger guys?

 

Bo only had one off-season to implement his defense, and some younger guys played on that defense.

 

Both Bullocks brothers and Fabian Washington were all Sophomores. That's 3/4 of the secondary being under-clansmen with only one off-season to learn a system. [Not a Math Major as you can tell ]

 

Barrett Ruud was a Junior, but a new system. Same story for Demorrio Williams, a Senior from Junior College, who wasn't with Nebraska for long.

 

Just like Lavonte David, a Junior College transfer, even though he "miss-played some plays early on" his athleticism made up for it. Even Bo said he was out of position early on in 2010, but that his athleticism made up the difference for him to make plays.

[Enhance]

Lavonte David was thrown into the fire because Compton got hurt. How would you have any idea about David's intelligence?

I assume this is directed at me, even though you didn't quote my exact post.

 

I've talked to and interviewed David before. These are just my impressions. He's not an exceptionally intelligent individual, but he has great football knowledge. I guess I should have clarified that.

 

My point is that you don't need someone to be a genius to execute this defense. David is a normal guy, but he gets it, and executes accordingly.

[C N Red]

This defense garnered few complaints in '09 and '10 when they were successful, and I think most here would agree that the offense has been the biggest reason why we've had such baffling losses over the years. Now, when we take a step defensively, we still have that same poor offense trying to rebuild under a new OC.

 

I don't think it's the system as much as it is the players. Lavonte David has been here what...two or three years? I think it's three years and two as a starter. He picked up everything asap and is going to go out as one of the best Nebraska linebackers ever. Same with guys like Dennard, Suh, Amukamara, Gomes, Dillard (to an extent), Hagg, and many others. A short amount of time - an excellent college pedigree. Every single one of those guys is, was, or will play in the NFL.

 

I'm beginning more and more to lean towards the idea that the players just aren't getting it or aren't athletic enough to get it. We've seen for two years now that the players can get it, and this bunch isn't for whatever reason. This might be why a guy like Thorell, who isn't nearly as physically gifted as other guys at his position, is starting. The guys under him don't get it, and the coaches are doing everything they can to make them get it. But I don't think it's because of complication. I think it's because of youth and poor execution. Both the players and the coaches are to blame to some degree.

 

I actually have never liked the 2 gap system even when we did have good defenses the past 2 years. Basically by playing that you are taking Suh and telling him not to rush the QB or try to get into the backfield and disrupt running plays. Look at what Suh does now in the NFL. He goes full bore and tries to get into the backfield every play and he is one of the best DL in the NFL today, his second year, and he was one of the best last year too, his rookie year.

 

So, think back and just wonder what he could have done if the coaches let him play like he does now!! His stats would have been unbelievable!! I really think in the 2009 Big 12 championship game he finally just said Ef it and decided to do what he wanted was to get into the backfield. He killed that Texas line! He could have done that all year!! If the coaches took the cuffs off of him there would have been no way they could have kept the Heisman from him.

 

Druski is dead on. Look at that defense we had back in 2003. That was a really attacking defense and one I expected to see when Bo returned to Nebraska. I am not a fan of this 2 Gap read defense we run a very high percentage of the time.

 

It's not easy to blitz with the 2 Gap system. You have a DL basically stand up and it's very easy for 2 OL to block him because he is not trying to penetrate. What this does is allow the OL to have good vision of when a LB is coming and since the DL is being handled easy he can come off of that double team to pick up the LB. Now think on the other hand when the DL is trying his butt off to penetrate into the backfield and is twisting, pushing, slapping, hitting, and the the 2 OL need all of there focus to block just this one guy! They lose vision on the LB who can come free on the blitz.

 

I'm sorry, but this 2 Gap system is uninspiring and doesn't lend itself to big plays and turnovers which is what a defense should want to do!!

[lo country]

Posted a similar point in another thread. Bo has made several comments this year about not "dumbing" down the system. I think it is a very good system WHEN all the D knows the system inside and out. Players have commented after a loss that one thing is if one guys misses an assignment, the "misses" snowball on that particular play. It seems very dependent upon every player truly being in the right place at the right time. I think that is why we see so much Cassidy and Thorell because they know the system.

 

It is hard to get younger guys into the system with production as they have yet to learn it. A knock on Wats and the WCO IIRC. I think this also is a factor in recruits "panning out". They might look good on film, but once they are in the "system", they can't grasp it. I think that the lack of playing backups hurts depth, and often takes Bo and Co a couple of years before they realize player X is a bust. For instance, we recruit DB's heavily this year. We get 4 commits and think we are solid. Next year we recruit no DB's, seniors graduate and Bo turns to guys he recruited 2 yrs ago, puts them in games (pretty much for the first time) and realizes they don't "get it." Unfortunately, we din't recruit one year because the class was "deep" with guys Bo thought would pan out, but didn't. No we are playing guys who are not as athletic or with some of the guys "knowing" the system and others who are learning on the fly. In Bo's system, 7-8 guys on the same page is a recipe disaster.

 

If you look back on Bo's D and guys who have really excelled, name me an underclassmen with say 2-3 yrs or less in the system? Suh, Prince, Crick, Dennard? David, Stafford? yes, but both are JUCO's. It seems like guys have to have a few years in the system or come from some experience as a JUCO.

 

Perhaps Bo needs to look at modifying the system to slowly bring it along.

[JJ Husker]

I think it is some (plenty) of both. The 2 gap system works great when you have the athletes to run it. I feel safe in saying we do not have the personnel to run it successfully. So, the system is flawed at least for this group of players. No matter what system you use, the players have to make plays. This might be the age old chicken or egg question. Is the system preventing them from making plays or are the players preventing the system from working? All I know is that both seem to be compounding the problems of the other. And I am not convinced they would be doing much better in a different system. The D line is slow and not physical enough (a terrible combination). Our DB's, quite frankly have been bad, mostly due to youth I believe but, after 11 games, also due to lack or technique and/or speed. LB's are probably the best of the groups but there is only so much they can accomplish with no pass rush from the line, dealing with opposing O lines blocking into the 2nd level, and also having to cover on long extended pass plays. Lavonte overcomes but there is only one of him and ten other positions we need pulling their weight. I think you can overcome some slowness of foot by being stronger and more physical. And you can overcome some lack of strength or size by being quicker and faster. But when you're generally lacking both, it's sure to be a long uphill battle. One or two players (eg a Suh & Prince) may be all we are missing. Good coaches find a way to exploit one weak link or to minimize it. I think we have run into opp coaches who have figured out how to exploit our weaknesses (NW comes to mind) and I feel our coaches have failed to minimize our weaknesses. So, it is all 3; players, coaches, and system.