Jesus and abortion

[The Dude]

As for the afterlife, remember what it was like before you were born? Is there any rational reason to think death would be any different than that?

 

I don't remember what what I had for dinner two nights ago, but I have high expectations for tonight's dinner.

How was it? I had a super bowl smorgasbord, and it was glorious.

[MLB 51]

JJ. I understand where you are coming from. It is your job as a Christian to bring the word of the Lord to those who do not have it. But that is all you can do. You cannot force it upon those who will not accept it.

[JJ Husker]

I might be for abortion in some cases and some of those might be reserved for persons past the 60th trimester who can't correctly spell a simple name like Mary.

[knapplc]

That's my point. If it's true Jesus never talked about it then to me it's clear that it wasn't an issue back then. BUT the all knowing Jesus/God would know it would be one day and would talk about it. So this would be just another obvious hole in the plot. Not as sloppy as Mormons saying native americans are Jews...but still sloppy writing.

 

If your point with this thread is to poke holes in Christianity, there are far better ways to do so than with this line of thinking. The very easy explanation is that an All-Knowing God would know about the future inventions of iPods, but didn't put Thou Shalt Not Pirate MP3s in the Bible because his audience at the time it was written would have had no clue what he was talking about. Give the God of All Creation more credit for knowing His audience than that.

 

Cute reply.

 

However stealing clearly covers piracy and really no one denys that. Back in that day he could have said it in a way that still covers abortion today. Like...Thou shall not attempt to end the life of a baby inside a woman as it is the same as killing the woman.

 

OK, so try this on for size:

 

Exodus 20:13 - "Thou shalt not kill."

Jeremiah 1:5 - "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

 

God knew you before you were born. Therefore you were a person before you were born.

[JJ Husker]

JJ. I understand where you are coming from. It is your job as a Christian to bring the word of the Lord to those who do not have it. But that is all you can do. You cannot force it upon those who will not accept it.

 

I'm not on a mission here. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything and I sure am not trying to force my views on others. I have simply stated my beliefs. I can't help it if the non-believers in the crowd take it the wrong way. It may not be very "Christian" of me but, I have a lot more things to be concerned about than how they live their life and where they might spend eternity. That's their problem not mine.

[Sub-Husker]

As for the afterlife, remember what it was like before you were born? Is there any rational reason to think death would be any different than that?

 

I don't remember what what I had for dinner two nights ago, but I have high expectations for tonight's dinner.

 

How was it? I had a super bowl smorgasbord, and it was glorious.

 

Pizza and wings, with various types of shelled nuts as a snack. Spaten provided the liquid refreshment.

 

And unlike the Patriots, I did not require the heimlich maneuver.

[Sub-Husker]

I might be for abortion in some cases and some of those might be reserved for persons past the 60th trimester who can't correctly spell a simple name like Mary.

 

Santa Maria, que barbarosa!

[MLB 51]

Not saying you are on a mission. Just I understand your frustration. And for the record. I do believe Jesus is pro-life it would be insane to think otherwise.

[Sub-Husker]

OK, so try this on for size:

 

Exodus 20:13 - "Thou shalt not kill."

Jeremiah 1:5 - "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

 

God knew you before you were born. Therefore you were a person before you were born.

 

Per Jewish law at the time of Christ, who is killed during an abortion?

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_abor.htm

 

The verse stating "God knew you before you were born" is more supportive of reincarnation.

[johnnyrodgers20]

I disagree, just about every law comes from someone's strong belief in the good of the people. Whether your God is my God or the Wicca's god, your core beliefs are usually what drives your actions and thus makes our laws.

 

You're right...the strong belief in the good of the PEOPLE...not the good of what is written in a book. Do we stop at your god? Is it just the Christian teachings we make into laws? How about Sharia law? How many people would throw a fit if Sharia laws were pushed into our government? What about if I create a religion, write a religious text, and say that "because my religious teachings say this....we should make it into law."

 

The government should never make laws based off of a religious ideology.

 

 

I didn't say we should have religious laws!! I said that people who are religious and have a strong belief system use their moral compass to form laws. Our laws are formed by people who used their moral compass and I stated that if you are an atheist you have some inner feeling of right of wrong that would be how an atheist would determine laws. I would not want a law stating you have to go to church on Sunday, but my beliefs would make laws like thou shalt not murder.

[Sub-Husker]

I didn't say we should have religious laws!! I said that people who are religious and have a strong belief system use their moral compass to form laws.

 

Except for the majority that do not know much of what is in the Bible, do not know who wrote most of the tennets of their faith, or the history of the time around where their religion was formed.

 

Do not confuse "a strong belief system" with stubborn ignorance.

[JJ Husker]

Not saying you are on a mission. Just I understand your frustration. And for the record. I do believe Jesus is pro-life it would be insane to think otherwise.

I understand where you are coming from. My response wasn't necessarily directed at you but it was a convenient time to get that out there. It seems many people confuse being exposed to anothers beliefs with having those beliefs thrust upon them. If a person chooses not to believe or chooses another religion, I don't have any problem with that. In some cases I will attempt to tell them why I think they're wrong or why I feel I'm right but it is never intended to come off as I'm absolutely right and they are absolutely wrong. Some people like to think that Christians (or any certain religion) don't think anyone else will be saved. I don't share that belief. I think we will all be judged based on a whole lives full of factors. It does not make sense to me that, for example, a muslim cannot enter heaven just because they do not recognize Jesus as their savior. I do believe there is one God and I also believe he is smart enough to discern what is in peoples hearts. I can't imagine a loving God would hold it against a person simply because they had not been exposed to some vital information. I even think some atheists may be ok in that regard. The ones who I don't think will be ok are the ones who openly mock the beliefs of people who are just trying to do the right thing. Unfortunately, it is those same people who are successful at keeping me from setting a good example. I don't turn the other cheek well. I'm pretty sure God has enough understanding to ultimately do the right thing with me and I just don't think he can take much offense at my attempts to defend attacks on Mary or her son.

[johnnyrodgers20]

So in summary, abortion is by far the best chance a liberal will ever have of making it to heaven.

That is a fine Christian thought.

 

Thanks to the so-called Christians in this thread for reminding me why I no longer attend church services.

 

 

I feel sorry for you that you no longer feel close to God and don't want to go to church. But you only look at the negative side of religion, no wonder you have such a bad view of God. Maybe you just need a positive story so I will give you one.

 

My daughter was very sick this weekend and I took her to the emergency room. The nurse was very polite and very comforting. We were there until around 1:30 A.M. Well, the next day my daughter was still very ill so we took her back to the emergency room at about 1:30 P.M. and I saw the same nurse. well, I asked her what is she still doing here and she said she was getting ready for church and got a call from a friend asking her to cover her shift. She asked if I was a doctor and my wife a nurse, we laughed and said no. She started calling my daughter a princess and saying what a beautiful family I had. We got to talking and I said that we felt bad we had missed church and she told her story about getting ready for church.

 

She joked about my family being a royal family because I had my son (and started calling him a little prince) also. She then said that she noticed an aura about me and my family. I told her we are trying to bring them up in the Lord's way and she said that she felt my family was special. She asked if she could pray for us and said my daughter was a blessing and that her sickness was God's way of bringing us together. She prayed and said that we would have a season of blessings and that God would pour out more blessings than we could possibly imagine. Then she gave my children snacks and gave them enough for my wife and I and their grand parents, she gave them coloring books and stickers too. As we were leaving my children just ran to her and hugged her, she seemed to exude some glow, I say from her faith, you can take it as just being a good person. But it was such a positive experience and my daughter has gotten so much better in one day. Now, I know the medicine helped but my daughter has health issues and it takes her a long time and her recoveries are usually very slow.

 

Any way you looked at it she is a light of her faith wether you believe in God or not. She is someone who you should look to when you think of persons of faith. I know she gave me some strength to be more faithful with her outlook. I am sure she has touched many lives like mine in her work and is a shining light for Jesus.

[johnnyrodgers20]

So in summary, abortion is by far the best chance a liberal will ever have of making it to heaven.

That is a fine Christian thought.

 

Thanks to the so-called Christians in this thread for reminding me why I no longer attend church services.

 

Oh, so the reason YOU no longer attend church is the fault of others. Me thinks you missed some important points along the way to your current destination.

 

Did he? The very same people who preach religion and preach its moral high ground are the same people who do and say the most terrible of things. The excuse in a sense, is [which of course there should be none]: I'm Christian, so it's okay that I did that.

 

That excuse is about as good as the Nazis saying...well we're Nazis, so it's okay that we did what we just did.

 

That's just a crazy analysis. Any time you use the word Nazi people think of evil in such a grand scale. When did you see such carnage based on Christ. I know you guys just love the Crusades, get over that, that was in the middle ages. People and faith ahv echanged ove rthe years.

[johnnyrodgers20]

 

Oh, so the reason YOU no longer attend church is the fault of others. Me thinks you missed some important points along the way to your current destination.

 

Did he? The very same people who preach religion and preach its moral high ground are the same people who do and say the most terrible of things. The excuse in a sense, is [which of course there should be none]: I'm Christian, so it's okay that I did that.

 

That excuse is about as good as the Nazis saying...well we're Nazis, so it's okay that we did what we just did.

 

My point is that everyone should recognize that there are good examples and bad examples within every religion. To fixate on only the bad and then base your actions on them does not do anyone any good. As an example, I am Catholic. Should I quit going to church simply because of well reported problems of some wayward priests? I don't think so. I think anyones religious journey must be a lot more personal than that. Plus it is hard in today's environment to overcome all the anti-Christian, anti-religion sentiment. For me it is a sign of some weakness or lack of understanding for a person to attribute their lack of church attendance to the bad behavior or actions of others. If you choose to not attend a certain church, do it because you don't agree with what the church teaches or believes. Don't do it because some other people don't get it. I understand that there are some very high profile cases of people doing wrong in the name of a religion. What doesn't get reported often is all of the good people and all of the good things they do.

 

I understand what you're getting at. I don't go to church as often as I should and if I were to be asked what my religion is I would probably say Presbyterian or Methodist. I believe in Jesus, I have faith in a life after this.

 

I just see so much hypocrisy from the Christianity and from so many other religions that it just baffles me. If people aren't religious, let them be apathetic or let them be diest or what have you. Their choice on non-religiosity is the very same choice that people make to be religious. Yet I very rarely see cases of apathetic people forcing their athiest views upon the religious.

 

Abortion is a prime example of this. And I'm going to get a lot of flak for this but it's okay. The basis for which a woman [or a couple] chooses to get an abortion is an individual choice separate from all other choices. It could be based off religion [which in the case the woman probably wouldn't get an abortion]. It could be based off financial standing [wether they have the ability to provide for a child or not]. It could be based off numerous circumstances that no one but the woman with the child can understand.

 

So who are we as religious folks or non-religious folks to deem the circumstances for which a woman gets an abortion to be petty, to be not worth risking the life a child. Hell, who are we to define wether it is a child or not?

 

I'll throw this in here so that no body gets all radical on me by saying that I'm basically advocating for women to go out, have as much unprotected sex as they want, and then just go to the abortion clinic to abort their baby: I find the idea of abortion to a certain extent morally wrong. I think that it is okay if it is done right away. If a woman knows she's pregnant for about 5 months and then all of a sudden decides to get an abortion, I have problems with that; there are better alternatives if you are that late into your pregnancy. However, like I said earlier, the choice is the woman's or the couples's choice alone and only they understand the circumstances behind the decision. So if a person I knew decided to get an abortion late into their pregnancy, I would have a problem with their decision, but not a problem with the people because I could not possibly understand the gravity of the circumstances behind their decision.

 

 

Most of your post I understand, I don't necessarily agree with but understand. But you are way off saying atheists don't push their views on us. The fact that they don't believe in God is fine with me but do you know how many court cases their are because they are pushing their point of view on us.? They want God out of schools, the pledge, our money and anywhere their is a note or saying on a public building relating to God. You are way off on that point. You have to remember that their religion is no religion so they are pushing their religion on us.