Sipple: Pelini says no to 'yes men'

[Joe_5700]

People that think that Zook or Stoops would have been a great hire for DC are a little crazy as well I think. Why would you want someone who is going to look to move on after a year or two with your ideas as well? I think what Bo is doing is a great way of hiring for the future and for cohesiveness. Yes you will have the Raymond situation once in a while, but I truely think Bo likes the ones willing to learn and be commited to the program and the beliefs he has. Yes he does say he wants his assistants to better themselves and if they get an opportunity that they can't pass up then take it. His main goal I believe, is to keep his assistants for the long haul if possible, people he can trust, but not afraid to speak their minds as well. This is how championship teams start especially in a place like Nebraska.

I've discussed my view on this before. Why do you think it's so crazy? Because Zook/Stoops are likely to leave in a couple years? Remember, we were led to believe that JP was on the way out the door if he wasn't promoted to coordinator...so what makes you think he'll be here 10 years from now? To me that sounds crazy. I give him 3-4 tops. With that said, lets say you rate experience on a scale of 1-10. Zook/Stoops being a 9-10, JP being a 2-3. Bo is going to need to train JP up to that level, and it will take 2-3 years to get him up to a 6-7. That means you're likely 3 years out before he can produce near the level of Zook/Stoop. And if he's gone after 4 then you got a single year of elite coaching out of him to go w/ your 3 wasted years investing in him. That's the same thing we'd be guarenteed to get w/ Zook/Stoops, without needing to invest 3 years. JP is a big risk IMO. He might be gone in 2 years. He might stay for 10 (in which case this promotion would have been a worthwhile investment)...but how many DCs stay put for 10 years? Even 5-7? Zook/Stoops were sure things, no matter how short their time here is.

 

And as for your last statement about championship teams being built on continuity.

 

2011: Alabama - they have some continuity w/ the coordinators being there 4/5 years.

2010: Auburn - gene's second year as HC, ted roof's second year as DC. gene goes out and finds the best OC in the game, in his 1st year Gus pulls in a championship.

2009: Alabama - Saban's 3rd year, MecElwain/Smart in their second years. Smart is the best indication that JP could be a success. He didn't exactly have extensive experience prior to Saban. He did have some athletes JP won't have.

2008: Florida - Meyer 4th year, Mullen's 4th year, Strong's 4th year under Meyer. [a little continuity here]

2007: LSU - Miles in his 3rd year, Crowton in his 1st year, some guy named Bo Pelini in his 3rd year as DC.

2006: Florida - Meyer in his 2nd year, Mullen 2nd, Strong 2nd.

2005: Texas - Mack Brown in his 8th season, Davis in his 8th season. This is the only guy I can find as a championship coach/DC that has been in the system more than 4-5 years. But his counterpart that year, Chizik, is in his first year as DC.

 

All-in all, championship coordinators DO NOT stay around for long - and they certainly DO NOT need to be there for 5-10 years before they can have an impact. Assuming JP will be here 10 years from now is crazy. Championship coordinators can have an impact on the team in year 1, or year 2. Guys like Zook/Stoops could have had an impact on the Huskers in 2012/2013. A guy like JP is an investment in 2014/2015. If history proves anything, it's unlikely he'll be on staff comes 2016/2017.

 

We do not get the same level of talent that Texas, Florida, LSU and Alabama get year in and year out...

[caveman99]

People that think that Zook or Stoops would have been a great hire for DC are a little crazy as well I think. Why would you want someone who is going to look to move on after a year or two with your ideas as well? I think what Bo is doing is a great way of hiring for the future and for cohesiveness. Yes you will have the Raymond situation once in a while, but I truely think Bo likes the ones willing to learn and be commited to the program and the beliefs he has. Yes he does say he wants his assistants to better themselves and if they get an opportunity that they can't pass up then take it. His main goal I believe, is to keep his assistants for the long haul if possible, people he can trust, but not afraid to speak their minds as well. This is how championship teams start especially in a place like Nebraska.

I've discussed my view on this before. Why do you think it's so crazy? Because Zook/Stoops are likely to leave in a couple years? Remember, we were led to believe that JP was on the way out the door if he wasn't promoted to coordinator...so what makes you think he'll be here 10 years from now? To me that sounds crazy. I give him 3-4 tops. With that said, lets say you rate experience on a scale of 1-10. Zook/Stoops being a 9-10, JP being a 2-3. Bo is going to need to train JP up to that level, and it will take 2-3 years to get him up to a 6-7. That means you're likely 3 years out before he can produce near the level of Zook/Stoop. And if he's gone after 4 then you got a single year of elite coaching out of him to go w/ your 3 wasted years investing in him. That's the same thing we'd be guarenteed to get w/ Zook/Stoops, without needing to invest 3 years. JP is a big risk IMO. He might be gone in 2 years. He might stay for 10 (in which case this promotion would have been a worthwhile investment)...but how many DCs stay put for 10 years? Even 5-7? Zook/Stoops were sure things, no matter how short their time here is.

 

And as for your last statement about championship teams being built on continuity.

 

2011: Alabama - they have some continuity w/ the coordinators being there 4/5 years.

2010: Auburn - gene's second year as HC, ted roof's second year as DC. gene goes out and finds the best OC in the game, in his 1st year Gus pulls in a championship.

2009: Alabama - Saban's 3rd year, MecElwain/Smart in their second years. Smart is the best indication that JP could be a success. He didn't exactly have extensive experience prior to Saban. He did have some athletes JP won't have.

2008: Florida - Meyer 4th year, Mullen's 4th year, Strong's 4th year under Meyer. [a little continuity here]

2007: LSU - Miles in his 3rd year, Crowton in his 1st year, some guy named Bo Pelini in his 3rd year as DC.

2006: Florida - Meyer in his 2nd year, Mullen 2nd, Strong 2nd.

2005: Texas - Mack Brown in his 8th season, Davis in his 8th season. This is the only guy I can find as a championship coach/DC that has been in the system more than 4-5 years. But his counterpart that year, Chizik, is in his first year as DC.

 

All-in all, championship coordinators DO NOT stay around for long - and they certainly DO NOT need to be there for 5-10 years before they can have an impact. Assuming JP will be here 10 years from now is crazy. Championship coordinators can have an impact on the team in year 1, or year 2. Guys like Zook/Stoops could have had an impact on the Huskers in 2012/2013. A guy like JP is an investment in 2014/2015. If history proves anything, it's unlikely he'll be on staff comes 2016/2017.

KC I don't necessarily disagree, but some of your tenure info is misleading. You need to look to see how many of the assistants coached with the HC previously. Just because they are only working for the HC for 1-3 years doesn't mean they have more tenure as a part of the HC's staff.

[HUSKER FREAK]

People that think that Zook or Stoops would have been a great hire for DC are a little crazy as well I think. Why would you want someone who is going to look to move on after a year or two with your ideas as well? I think what Bo is doing is a great way of hiring for the future and for cohesiveness. Yes you will have the Raymond situation once in a while, but I truely think Bo likes the ones willing to learn and be commited to the program and the beliefs he has. Yes he does say he wants his assistants to better themselves and if they get an opportunity that they can't pass up then take it. His main goal I believe, is to keep his assistants for the long haul if possible, people he can trust, but not afraid to speak their minds as well. This is how championship teams start especially in a place like Nebraska.

I've discussed my view on this before. Why do you think it's so crazy? Because Zook/Stoops are likely to leave in a couple years? Remember, we were led to believe that JP was on the way out the door if he wasn't promoted to coordinator...so what makes you think he'll be here 10 years from now? To me that sounds crazy. I give him 3-4 tops. With that said, lets say you rate experience on a scale of 1-10. Zook/Stoops being a 9-10, JP being a 2-3. Bo is going to need to train JP up to that level, and it will take 2-3 years to get him up to a 6-7. That means you're likely 3 years out before he can produce near the level of Zook/Stoop. And if he's gone after 4 then you got a single year of elite coaching out of him to go w/ your 3 wasted years investing in him. That's the same thing we'd be guarenteed to get w/ Zook/Stoops, without needing to invest 3 years. JP is a big risk IMO. He might be gone in 2 years. He might stay for 10 (in which case this promotion would have been a worthwhile investment)...but how many DCs stay put for 10 years? Even 5-7? Zook/Stoops were sure things, no matter how short their time here is.

 

And as for your last statement about championship teams being built on continuity.

 

2011: Alabama - they have some continuity w/ the coordinators being there 4/5 years.

2010: Auburn - gene's second year as HC, ted roof's second year as DC. gene goes out and finds the best OC in the game, in his 1st year Gus pulls in a championship.

2009: Alabama - Saban's 3rd year, MecElwain/Smart in their second years. Smart is the best indication that JP could be a success. He didn't exactly have extensive experience prior to Saban. He did have some athletes JP won't have.

2008: Florida - Meyer 4th year, Mullen's 4th year, Strong's 4th year under Meyer. [a little continuity here]

2007: LSU - Miles in his 3rd year, Crowton in his 1st year, some guy named Bo Pelini in his 3rd year as DC.

2006: Florida - Meyer in his 2nd year, Mullen 2nd, Strong 2nd.

2005: Texas - Mack Brown in his 8th season, Davis in his 8th season. This is the only guy I can find as a championship coach/DC that has been in the system more than 4-5 years. But his counterpart that year, Chizik, is in his first year as DC.

 

All-in all, championship coordinators DO NOT stay around for long - and they certainly DO NOT need to be there for 5-10 years before they can have an impact. Assuming JP will be here 10 years from now is crazy. Championship coordinators can have an impact on the team in year 1, or year 2. Guys like Zook/Stoops could have had an impact on the Huskers in 2012/2013. A guy like JP is an investment in 2014/2015. If history proves anything, it's unlikely he'll be on staff comes 2016/2017.

KC I don't necessarily disagree, but some of your tenure info is misleading. You need to look to see how many of the assistants coached with the HC previously. Just because they are only working for the HC for 1-3 years doesn't mean they have more tenure as a part of the HC's staff.

 

And, I am pretty damn sure that's why I put at a PLACE LIKE NEBRASKA. Be cause we are not and never will be Texas, Alabama, LSU, Ohio St, Florida Florida st. Miami, USC, UCLA, just to name a few. We are and always have been unique and when we tried to act like these other schools we lost tradition respect and alot of other things that makes Nebraska who we are.

[True2tRA]

I also heard Pelini says Yes to No men......so take it for what it's worth.

[kchusker_chris]

And, I am pretty damn sure that's why I put at a PLACE LIKE NEBRASKA. Be cause we are not and never will be Texas, Alabama, LSU, Ohio St, Florida Florida st. Miami, USC, UCLA, just to name a few. We are and always have been unique and when we tried to act like these other schools we lost tradition respect and alot of other things that makes Nebraska who we are.

That's always the argument people attempt to make when justifying things at Nebraska. "We're not like everyone else" - yada yada yada. At the end of the day we have an offense that is copying half of college football....so we must be trying to be like everyone else in at least 1/2 the game of football.

 

We've been turning over assistants, head coaches, and staff every 3-4 years. So we must be like everyone else there as well. The coaches we are hiring aren't exactly from Lincoln/Omaha or western Nebraska, they are from the southeast, or Ohio, or Maryland - which doesn't exactly make them unique to Nebraska either.

 

You're right, we aren't like everyone else...just everything about college football is like us. Why do you think Nebraska is so unique in regards to staff turnover? What have we done in the last 15 years that would make you feel that way? Is there any team in college football like that? Good luck finding one. You won't see one here any time soon I'd put money on that. So we need to embrace it for what it is, and use it to our advantage instead of trying to swim against the current all the time.

[kchusker_chris]

KC I don't necessarily disagree, but some of your tenure info is misleading. You need to look to see how many of the assistants coached with the HC previously. Just because they are only working for the HC for 1-3 years doesn't mean they have more tenure as a part of the HC's staff.

Yeah I didn't want to go into that much detail. I know that Strong was with Meyer in Utah, and Mullen might have been as well. Not sure about Sabans staff. I'm sure there's more to it that I posted above.

 

The point I was trying to make is that championships don't require some coaching staff that has been together for years and years. The argument against that is the usual "we are Nebraska so we have to do things different." It's kind of hard to argue against that - like the guy that says to prove/disprove there is a God when discussing religion. But if you look at the facts, not many teams are winning championships because they've been together as a staff for 10 years. I think the last team I can remember having success - success that can largely be attributed to staff continuity - is Missouri in 2007. Pinkel had that staff together for a long time, but the only reason they were together for that long is because they weren't successful prior. We can't be both successful, and have a staff that sticks around for decades.

 

If you want to look at someone at a disadvantage who is successful despite staff turnover look at Oklahoma State. They have to recruit against Oklahoma in their own home state. They pick off the leftovers from the Texas schools - they have a hell of a coach in Gundy (who I see as similar to Bo in many ways), and they bring in the best and the brightest coordinators in the game for 1-2 years at a time. Oklahoma State has been pretty successful in the last few years because of this, and that success is helping in recruiting, revenue, status, and ultimately will fuel longevity in their success. They won't have some dynasty team - but neither will Nebraska. The best way to build long-term success is to build that on a foundation of short-term success that gets you the recruits you'll need long-term. We win now, it's going to be so much easier to win 3-5 years from now. JP is not a win-now hire.

[jsneb83]

Bo has a poor taste in movies

[95huskers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BCoizllUis

[Saunders]

And, I am pretty damn sure that's why I put at a PLACE LIKE NEBRASKA. Be cause we are not and never will be Texas, Alabama, LSU, Ohio St, Florida Florida st. Miami, USC, UCLA, just to name a few. We are and always have been unique and when we tried to act like these other schools we lost tradition respect and alot of other things that makes Nebraska who we are.

That's always the argument people attempt to make when justifying things at Nebraska. "We're not like everyone else" - yada yada yada. At the end of the day we have an offense that is copying half of college football....so we must be trying to be like everyone else in at least 1/2 the game of football.

 

We've been turning over assistants, head coaches, and staff every 3-4 years. So we must be like everyone else there as well. The coaches we are hiring aren't exactly from Lincoln/Omaha or western Nebraska, they are from the southeast, or Ohio, or Maryland - which doesn't exactly make them unique to Nebraska either.

 

You're right, we aren't like everyone else...just everything about college football is like us. Why do you think Nebraska is so unique in regards to staff turnover? What have we done in the last 15 years that would make you feel that way? Is there any team in college football like that? Good luck finding one. You won't see one here any time soon I'd put money on that. So we need to embrace it for what it is, and use it to our advantage instead of trying to swim against the current all the time.

Wat?

[kchusker_chris]

And, I am pretty damn sure that's why I put at a PLACE LIKE NEBRASKA. Be cause we are not and never will be Texas, Alabama, LSU, Ohio St, Florida Florida st. Miami, USC, UCLA, just to name a few. We are and always have been unique and when we tried to act like these other schools we lost tradition respect and alot of other things that makes Nebraska who we are.

That's always the argument people attempt to make when justifying things at Nebraska. "We're not like everyone else" - yada yada yada. At the end of the day we have an offense that is copying half of college football....so we must be trying to be like everyone else in at least 1/2 the game of football.

 

We've been turning over assistants, head coaches, and staff every 3-4 years. So we must be like everyone else there as well. The coaches we are hiring aren't exactly from Lincoln/Omaha or western Nebraska, they are from the southeast, or Ohio, or Maryland - which doesn't exactly make them unique to Nebraska either.

 

You're right, we aren't like everyone else...just everything about college football is like us. Why do you think Nebraska is so unique in regards to staff turnover? What have we done in the last 15 years that would make you feel that way? Is there any team in college football like that? Good luck finding one. You won't see one here any time soon I'd put money on that. So we need to embrace it for what it is, and use it to our advantage instead of trying to swim against the current all the time.

Wat?

See, this is again you having already formed an opposing opinion to my posts and therefor just hearing what you want to hear.

 

EDIT: and do you see our offense having a clear identity? IF you're going to respond at least put forth something that is based on thought

[HUSKER FREAK]

And, I am pretty damn sure that's why I put at a PLACE LIKE NEBRASKA. Be cause we are not and never will be Texas, Alabama, LSU, Ohio St, Florida Florida st. Miami, USC, UCLA, just to name a few. We are and always have been unique and when we tried to act like these other schools we lost tradition respect and alot of other things that makes Nebraska who we are.

That's always the argument people attempt to make when justifying things at Nebraska. "We're not like everyone else" - yada yada yada. At the end of the day we have an offense that is copying half of college football....so we must be trying to be like everyone else in at least 1/2 the game of football.

 

We've been turning over assistants, head coaches, and staff every 3-4 years. So we must be like everyone else there as well. The coaches we are hiring aren't exactly from Lincoln/Omaha or western Nebraska, they are from the southeast, or Ohio, or Maryland - which doesn't exactly make them unique to Nebraska either.

 

You're right, we aren't like everyone else...just everything about college football is like us. Why do you think Nebraska is so unique in regards to staff turnover? What have we done in the last 15 years that would make you feel that way? Is there any team in college football like that? Good luck finding one. You won't see one here any time soon I'd put money on that. So we need to embrace it for what it is, and use it to our advantage instead of trying to swim against the current all the time.

Wat?

In the last 15 years is what I am talking about, well not quite because Franky needed time to get his recruiting ducks in a row and didn't get it because the dumbass we got for an AD fired him and then we got Callahan. He was everything that we aren't and Bo is trying to get back to the "Nebraska Way" with his own style but he is about as close to Ne as you can get. I never once said that we needed to hire anyone from Nebraska. Would it help to have someone from Ne yes as long as they can coach and recruit effectively. Bo needs to have people he can trust and the ones that want to have a career not a job. He also understands the people of Nebraska and what we want. And, he also knows we want it the right way. I think TO is the best mentor for Bo as far his job goes and I think he may know what it takes to win championships at Nebraska.

[kchusker_chris]

In the last 15 years is what I am talking about, well not quite because Franky needed time to get his recruiting ducks in a row and didn't get it because the dumbass we got for an AD fired him and then we got Callahan. He was everything that we aren't and Bo is trying to get back to the "Nebraska Way" with his own style but he is about as close to Ne as you can get. I never once said that we needed to hire anyone from Nebraska. Would it help to have someone from Ne yes as long as they can coach and recruit effectively. Bo needs to have people he can trust and the ones that want to have a career not a job. He also understands the people of Nebraska and what we want. And, he also knows we want it the right way. I think TO is the best mentor for Bo as far his job goes and I think he may know what it takes to win championships at Nebraska.

Just don't see it happening in "modern" day college football - which has changed dramatically since TO's days. I do like that Bo is bringing back traditions, values, leadership, etc. I agree I think he understands the people of Nebrsaka and it's fan base well. He's beginning to show more respect to us as fans as well. I'm not in total agreement about Tom knowing how to win championships at Nebraska (i'll get murdered for this i'm sure). But, he had an edge Bo will never have, during a time that is very different that today. It's tough to say - but I'm confident the Tom of 1993 would struggle to produce at the same level today.

 

I also disagree about the career guys. A career (a person's progress or general course of action through life or through a phase of life, as in some profession or undertaking) spans multiple positions, and in college football will most definitely span multiple institutions. Those concerned with the "career" rather than their "job" could end up being more damaging to the program than someone with a specific task to do like Zook. They risk less, they have alternative motives, visions beyond where they currently are, etc. JP is gone in 4 years, I'd put money on it. And he's using us to learn on the job the next 2.

[The Dude]

Give the Zook thing a rest already...

 

Seriously, have you seen him coach the last few years? I'm almost certain he has alzheimer's.

[HUSKER FREAK]

In the last 15 years is what I am talking about, well not quite because Franky needed time to get his recruiting ducks in a row and didn't get it because the dumbass we got for an AD fired him and then we got Callahan. He was everything that we aren't and Bo is trying to get back to the "Nebraska Way" with his own style but he is about as close to Ne as you can get. I never once said that we needed to hire anyone from Nebraska. Would it help to have someone from Ne yes as long as they can coach and recruit effectively. Bo needs to have people he can trust and the ones that want to have a career not a job. He also understands the people of Nebraska and what we want. And, he also knows we want it the right way. I think TO is the best mentor for Bo as far his job goes and I think he may know what it takes to win championships at Nebraska.

Just don't see it happening in "modern" day college football - which has changed dramatically since TO's days. I do like that Bo is bringing back traditions, values, leadership, etc. I agree I think he understands the people of Nebrsaka and it's fan base well. He's beginning to show more respect to us as fans as well. I'm not in total agreement about Tom knowing how to win championships at Nebraska (i'll get murdered for this i'm sure). But, he had an edge Bo will never have, during a time that is very different that today. It's tough to say - but I'm confident the Tom of 1993 would struggle to produce at the same level today.

 

I also disagree about the career guys. A career (a person's progress or general course of action through life or through a phase of life, as in some profession or undertaking) spans multiple positions, and in college football will most definitely span multiple institutions. Those concerned with the "career" rather than their "job" could end up being more damaging to the program than someone with a specific task to do like Zook. They risk less, they have alternative motives, visions beyond where they currently are, etc. JP is gone in 4 years, I'd put money on it. And he's using us to learn on the job the next 2.

 

I think TO had to adjust from when he started to get to where he ended. Times had changed on him during that period as well, and I think he would have been able to adjust because he is a smart person and surrounds himself with good people, well most of the time I would say. But, I do agree at this day in age with all the advancments in technology it would be tough to adjust the same way he was able to.

 

I guess I should have said we need coaches that are looking to learn and respect the program and the fans, then the ones that are looking for a quick job to get them to the next one a year or two later. Stoops and Zook were failed head coaches looking to get a quick job to get back into the HC discusion somewhere else in as short of time as possible. I think they have done nothing to help our program. JMO

[Saunders]

And, I am pretty damn sure that's why I put at a PLACE LIKE NEBRASKA. Be cause we are not and never will be Texas, Alabama, LSU, Ohio St, Florida Florida st. Miami, USC, UCLA, just to name a few. We are and always have been unique and when we tried to act like these other schools we lost tradition respect and alot of other things that makes Nebraska who we are.

That's always the argument people attempt to make when justifying things at Nebraska. "We're not like everyone else" - yada yada yada. At the end of the day we have an offense that is copying half of college football....so we must be trying to be like everyone else in at least 1/2 the game of football.

 

We've been turning over assistants, head coaches, and staff every 3-4 years. So we must be like everyone else there as well. The coaches we are hiring aren't exactly from Lincoln/Omaha or western Nebraska, they are from the southeast, or Ohio, or Maryland - which doesn't exactly make them unique to Nebraska either.

 

You're right, we aren't like everyone else...just everything about college football is like us. Why do you think Nebraska is so unique in regards to staff turnover? What have we done in the last 15 years that would make you feel that way? Is there any team in college football like that? Good luck finding one. You won't see one here any time soon I'd put money on that. So we need to embrace it for what it is, and use it to our advantage instead of trying to swim against the current all the time.

Wat?

See, this is again you having already formed an opposing opinion to my posts and therefor just hearing what you want to hear.

 

EDIT: and do you see our offense having a clear identity? IF you're going to respond at least put forth something that is based on thought

Oh God.... I don't disagree with your post, but that line was a wtf moment.

 

But seriously, our offense resembles nobody I can think of. We use Pistol, I-Form, Shotgun, and I even think I saw a pro set. We run load, speed, triple, and zone read options. I can't think of any other team that does that.