sd'sker Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You say that Obama the most polarizing that you can ever recall in office but I bet most people would argue that the guy before him could give Barack a pretty good run for his money in that department. If it wasn't for the SEAL's killing Bin Laden, Obama would be remembered as America's first black president, and that's it. i think obamacare will be remembered, as will lilly ledbetter act, also his efforts to maintain access to higher education. and how did we get to a place were we can not even give credit to the president for killing america's most wanted. he got the job. by that logic, no president does anything. that is like saying, 'oh look at truman taking all the credit for ending the war when we all know it was the soldiers in the enola gay'. edit: furthermore, if the mission would have failed (for whatever reason, bin laden was not there, we lost soldiers, whatever) who would have gotten the blame? Link to comment
walksalone Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You say that Obama the most polarizing that you can ever recall in office but I bet most people would argue that the guy before him could give Barack a pretty good run for his money in that department. If it wasn't for the SEAL's killing Bin Laden, Obama would be remembered as America's first black president, and that's it. i think obamacare will be remembered, as will lilly ledbetter act, also his efforts to maintain access to higher education. and how did we get to a place were we can not even give credit to the president for killing america's most wanted. he got the job. by that logic, no president does anything. that is like saying, 'oh look at truman taking all the credit for ending the war when we all know it was the soldiers in the enola gay'. 90% of Americans won't remember the legislation. They'll remember Bin Laden and that Obama was black. How many people remember what Clinton did outside of not inhaling and Lewinsky? Link to comment
sd'sker Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You say that Obama the most polarizing that you can ever recall in office but I bet most people would argue that the guy before him could give Barack a pretty good run for his money in that department. If it wasn't for the SEAL's killing Bin Laden, Obama would be remembered as America's first black president, and that's it. i think obamacare will be remembered, as will lilly ledbetter act, also his efforts to maintain access to higher education. and how did we get to a place were we can not even give credit to the president for killing america's most wanted. he got the job. by that logic, no president does anything. that is like saying, 'oh look at truman taking all the credit for ending the war when we all know it was the soldiers in the enola gay'. 90% of Americans won't remember the legislation. They'll remember Bin Laden and that Obama was black. How many people remember what Clinton did outside of not inhaling and Lewinsky? i was kind of wondering if that is what you were getting at. what are any modern presidents remembered for? mostly bad, sensationalist garbage. but that is also an indictment of the american educational system. Link to comment
walksalone Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Like Don Henley said, we love dirty laundry Link to comment
sd'sker Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Like Don Henley said, we love dirty laundry and chocolate milk. 1 Link to comment
gobiggergoredder Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 It continues to amaze me how many people so readily come to the defense of billionaires when they are, comparatively, poverty-stricken. Those billionaires own Fox news. Those billionaires give Rush and Hannity and their ilk cash to push their agenda. And rather than look at the tax code and see that it's not only broken, but purposefully broken by those same billionaires, people in this country support the brokenness, and do so willingly, believing they are fighting for what is right, because that's what the billionaires pay the mouthpieces to say. Let's be careful. These billionaires also put on a show by Obama's side saying they want to pay more taxes. Anyone ever think this could possibly be PR, deflecting or posturing? If they want to pay more taxes, then do it. These corporations that dodge taxes have members in Obama's inner circle (Job Czar for example). It goes both ways. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 It continues to amaze me how many people so readily come to the defense of billionaires when they are, comparatively, poverty-stricken. Those billionaires own Fox news. Those billionaires give Rush and Hannity and their ilk cash to push their agenda. And rather than look at the tax code and see that it's not only broken, but purposefully broken by those same billionaires, people in this country support the brokenness, and do so willingly, believing they are fighting for what is right, because that's what the billionaires pay the mouthpieces to say. Let's be careful. These billionaires also put on a show by Obama's side saying they want to pay more taxes. Anyone ever think this could possibly be PR, deflecting or posturing? If they want to pay more taxes, then do it. These corporations that dodge taxes have members in Obama's inner circle (Job Czar for example). It goes both ways. The difference is, one group is telling you the tax code is broken and needs to be fixed because the playing field is not level (Barack Obama). The other side is telling you that everything is OK, that any attempt to fix the tax code is "class warfare" and their tax plan provides huge benefits to the wealthy and superwealthy (Mitt Romney). Which side do you think would benefit Middle-Class America more? You know, the Middle Class that is shrinking - the Middle Class that is the backbone of this country. We can sit here and draw lines all day. The fact is, America is hurting. The wealthy have enough tax breaks as it is. Why is it "class warfare" to ask them to shoulder the same burden as the Middle Class? When did it become "warfare" to expect Americans to support America? 1 Link to comment
gobiggergoredder Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Knapp, I'm guilty of it too, not as much as most, as looking for a simple answer as to why we have the problems we do. Is it the Bush Tax Cuts, Obama Spending, the threat of Obamacare, Romney cuts for rich? In all honesty, I don't think it is any of them. I think the biggest reason the middle class is suffering is because of 'free trade'. The good jobs that use to exist for those with a high school diploma aren't there anymore. I also think the middle class funds erroneous law suits, welfare fraud and healthcare inefficiencies. It baffles me in another thread how many people think we should be going after food companies. Deceptive..go buy some Enzyte from Smiling Bob. The waste list is far longer, but I believe that those are the big items. D.C. is in the pocket of lobbyist for China and until that is addressed this all smoke in mirrors. At the end of the day, I see little difference in the Middle Class future whether it is Obama or Romney. Link to comment
knapplc Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Well, the Middle Class is, definitely, a victim of their own stupidity. I'll agree with that wholeheartedly. I know I've made some boneheaded money moves. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Knapp, I'm guilty of it too, not as much as most, as looking for a simple answer as to why we have the problems we do. Is it the Bush Tax Cuts, Obama Spending, the threat of Obamacare, Romney cuts for rich? In all honesty, I don't think it is any of them. I think the biggest reason the middle class is suffering is because of 'free trade'. The good jobs that use to exist for those with a high school diploma aren't there anymore. I also think the middle class funds erroneous law suits, welfare fraud and healthcare inefficiencies. It baffles me in another thread how many people think we should be going after food companies. Deceptive..go buy some Enzyte from Smiling Bob. The waste list is far longer, but I believe that those are the big items. D.C. is in the pocket of lobbyist for China and until that is addressed this all smoke in mirrors. At the end of the day, I see little difference in the Middle Class future whether it is Obama or Romney. Issues in Washington have affected the middle class. But, differently than what liberals like to claim. Most of the world would LOVE to live like our middle class. Heck, our poor lives better than a very large number of people in the world. But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to keep improving it. Everyone wants to keep improving their place in life. However, I am right smack dab in the middle of what many people claim is the "middle class" and you know what? As frustrated as I get sometimes, I live fairly well. What has affected the low and middle class the most is global competition. Simply put, someone working in a factory isn't going to get paid huge amounts of money because of global competition. When companies have to compete with products being shipped in from China and Mexico, it is impossible to pay many workers more than they are now. I am in management of what I would consider a medium sized company in central Nebraska. We make products that go into the home building industry. We compete with products being shipped in from China all the time. The fact is, the American public doesn't give a flying crap where their products are made but on the flip side, they demand good jobs at high wages. They also want high environmental regulations and employement laws. Now, none of that is bad by itself. BUT, when a company has to do all that and then compete with companies that pay a small fraction to workers with no regulations, that doesn't work. That has killed many industries in this country. What unions and environmental groups need to do is concentrate on other countries to bring them up to our standards. THAT will bring jobs back to the US and improve the low and middle class. HOWEVER, when one party caters to them and makes all these promises and continually stumps that the big mean evil corporations are destorying America to get their votes.....that will never change. Link to comment
knapplc Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 BRB, I don't disagree with a single thing in your post. But that doesn't mean that the issue of tax inequality is a minor issue, or one that shouldn't be examined. I know of this group of people who got all up in their government's face because they were paying taxes but weren't represented in their country's congress. They lived good lives, better than most of the world, they were citizens of the world's greatest nation, they were (for the most part) well-fed, comfortable and happy. Aside from that taxation-without-representation thing, life was pretty good. They still started a revolution over it, though. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 BRB, I don't disagree with a single thing in your post. But that doesn't mean that the issue of tax inequality is a minor issue, or one that shouldn't be examined. I know of this group of people who got all up in their government's face because they were paying taxes but weren't represented in their country's congress. They lived good lives, better than most of the world, they were citizens of the world's greatest nation, they were (for the most part) well-fed, comfortable and happy. Aside from that taxation-without-representation thing, life was pretty good. They still started a revolution over it, though. You saying the poor in this country are being taxed without representation? Interesting. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 BRB, I don't disagree with a single thing in your post. But that doesn't mean that the issue of tax inequality is a minor issue, or one that shouldn't be examined. I know of this group of people who got all up in their government's face because they were paying taxes but weren't represented in their country's congress. They lived good lives, better than most of the world, they were citizens of the world's greatest nation, they were (for the most part) well-fed, comfortable and happy. Aside from that taxation-without-representation thing, life was pretty good. They still started a revolution over it, though. You saying the poor in this country are being taxed without representation? Interesting. I don't see where he said that . . . Link to comment
knapplc Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 BRB, I don't disagree with a single thing in your post. But that doesn't mean that the issue of tax inequality is a minor issue, or one that shouldn't be examined. I know of this group of people who got all up in their government's face because they were paying taxes but weren't represented in their country's congress. They lived good lives, better than most of the world, they were citizens of the world's greatest nation, they were (for the most part) well-fed, comfortable and happy. Aside from that taxation-without-representation thing, life was pretty good. They still started a revolution over it, though. You saying the poor in this country are being taxed without representation? Interesting. Don't intentionally misinterpret what was written. You know very well what the point was. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 According to some, the total tax burden isn't as unequal as some make you think. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-taxes-americans-really-pay-in-two-graphs/2012/04/16/gIQA6o4yLT_blog.html But, close to half of Americans don't pay any federal income tax. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/why-do-half-of-all-americans-pay-no-federal-income-taxes/2011/07/11/gIQA8olBuI_blog.html Link to comment
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