2012 Presidential Election Polls

[BigRedBuster]

Over regulation kills an economy when you are in a world market and the rest of the world don't have those regulations that drive up costs.

You want America to be like the rest of the world? What about American Exceptionalism? Rabble rabble.

 

No....

 

Right now, we have the worst situation. We have a government who puts the toughest regulations on it's industry with high taxes compared to the rest of the world. On top of that, we have free trade agreements with our biggest competitors in these industries. On top of that, these competing countries have little to no regulations and pay their employees pennies compared to what even the minimum wage is in the US.

 

Let me give you a real world example. Our company competes with products made in China. Our industry can make our products using lead as an ingredient much cheaper than we do. However, it is illegal for us to use lead because of environmental regulations. Ok...I agree with that regulation and am not against keeping it. HOWEVER.....the same products can be made in China WITH lead and imported into the US and sold to the public and nobody knows and the government doesn't care. That's because it is not illegal to SELL lead based products, it is just illegal to PRODUCE lead based products like ours in the US.

 

On top of that, up till now (I think it's slowly changing) the industries in China are subsidized by the government as long as they break even. I am totally against government subsidies for almost all industries so I am not asking for that. So.....as it turns out, WE have to make a profit to stay in business. If the Chinese company simply breaks even, the government subsidizes them to give them a profit.

 

On top of that, they have the cheap labor that everyone knows about.

 

And people wonder why industry is leaving the US for China? The public doesn't give a crap (or doesn't even know or care to ask) where the product is made, all they care is that it's cheaper.

 

So....with all that, we have a party in power who preaches that these big evil corporations need to be paying more to employees, stricter environmental regulations and paying more taxes because after all.....they are owned by big mean evil rich people who don't care about little people. It is always packaged as..."That big mean company shipped your jobs over seas." It's survival.

 

Why are they looking at us???? Why isn't our government looking at imported products that compete with us and saying HEY.......If you are going to sell that stuff here without a tariff, you have to play by our rules as far as wages, environmental and employment law."

 

 

BUT....no...the public wants cheap products, high wages, clean air and water, and no taxes because those evil rich companies can pay them.

 

I want a level playing field. So far, neither party is giving that to us but at least there is one that is less a threat than the other one.

 

You know what would make me vote democrats??? If they would come out and say...."Hey....industries....I am not going to push for higher minimum wages, more environmental regulations...etc. We already have some of the highest standards in the world. What we are going to do is require your foreign competitors to play by those rules also if they want to sell those products in the US."

 

EVERYONE would win with that strategy because you then take away the reasons why jobs are going over seas and more manufacturing jobs come back to the US.

[carlfense]

Let me give you a real world example. Our company competes with products made in China. Our industry can make our products using lead as an ingredient much cheaper than we do. However, it is illegal for us to use lead because of environmental regulations. Ok...I agree with that regulation and am not against keeping it. HOWEVER.....the same products can be made in China WITH lead and imported into the US and sold to the public and nobody knows and the government doesn't care. That's because it is not illegal to SELL lead based products, it is just illegal to PRODUCE lead based products like ours in the US.

Your real world example makes it sound like you're in favor of more regulations . . . not fewer. You admit that you're OK with the regulation prohibiting the use of lead in the manufacture of your product. Then you go on to point out that it's unfair that China be allowed to sell the same product with lead in the United States.

 

Solution? Prohibit China from selling the product that you're not allowed to manufacture and leave the regulation (that you are in favor of!) in place that prohibits the use of lead in manufacturing.

 

Am I reading that incorrectly?

[BigRedBuster]

My view is it that you can't have it both ways.

 

You can't have all these regulations in the US and then expect companies to compete with companies that don't have it.

 

IF....the US is going to not force other countries who import products to the US to raise their standards, AND, the US wants manufacturing to come back to the US, then we must reduce regulations.

 

I would prefer that other countries raise their standards to ours. Example.....I don't want products like ours made in the US with lead. BUT, I also don't want to have to compete with products made OUTSIDE the US cheaper because they can use lead.

 

So, when I say that we are over regulated, I am mostly referring to "compared to other countries" who compete with US companies.

 

Now....I do believe there are some regulations in the US that go too far.

[knapplc]

Ending regulations will not bring manufacturing back to American soil. The only thing that will do that is wage equality. If I can pay a skilled worker 50 cents a day to make an iPod, why would I pay an American worker $160 a day?

 

This whole "regulations" thing is a boondoggle. It's coming from people who don't want the government watching them. The same kind of people who wrecked our economy a few years back, threatening another global market meltdown.

 

Sorry, ending regulations isn't the answer. Anyone telling you different is lying to you.

[BigRedBuster]

I would be better described as someone who is for certain regulations in certain situations but I am a firm believer that most of the time the are poorly written and implemented.

[BigRedBuster]

Ending regulations will not bring manufacturing back to American soil. The only thing that will do that is wage equality. If I can pay a skilled worker 50 cents a day to make an iPod, why would I pay an American worker $160 a day?

 

This whole "regulations" thing is a boondoggle. It's coming from people who don't want the government watching them. The same kind of people who wrecked our economy a few years back, threatening another global market meltdown.

 

Sorry, ending regulations isn't the answer. Anyone telling you different is lying to you.

 

Wrong....

 

Yes, your wage issue is a real issue.

 

BUT, if I have a manufacturing plant that has to abide by very strict environmental regulations in the US which would greatly increase my costs, why wouldn't I build it in China where I don't have to worry about that at all and the government doesn't give a crap what I do unless the Olympics come to town and all they will have me do is close for a month?

 

And, I didn't say ending regulations is the answer. I said level the playing field.

[sd'sker]

I would be better described as someone who is for certain regulations in certain situations but I am a firm believer that most of the time the are poorly written and implemented.

your example does demonstrate that, but as carlfense pointed out, we need better regulation to keep chinese products that contain lead out of the country.

[carlfense]

My view is it that you can't have it both ways.

 

You can't have all these regulations in the US and then expect companies to compete with companies that don't have it.

 

IF....the US is going to not force other countries who import products to the US to raise their standards, AND, the US wants manufacturing to come back to the US, then we must reduce regulations.

 

I would prefer that other countries raise their standards to ours. Example.....I don't want products like ours made in the US with lead. BUT, I also don't want to have to compete with products made OUTSIDE the US cheaper because they can use lead.

 

So, when I say that we are over regulated, I am mostly referring to "compared to other countries" who compete with US companies.

Cool. I think that we're on the same page.

 

Now....I do believe there are some regulations in the US that go too far.

I would agree.

[carlfense]

Ending regulations will not bring manufacturing back to American soil. The only thing that will do that is wage equality. If I can pay a skilled worker 50 cents a day to make an iPod, why would I pay an American worker $160 a day?

 

This whole "regulations" thing is a boondoggle. It's coming from people who don't want the government watching them. The same kind of people who wrecked our economy a few years back, threatening another global market meltdown.

 

Sorry, ending regulations isn't the answer. Anyone telling you different is lying to you.

 

Wrong....

 

Yes, your wage issue is a real issue.

 

BUT, if I have a manufacturing plant that has to abide by very strict environmental regulations in the US which would greatly increase my costs, why wouldn't I build it in China where I don't have to worry about that at all and the government doesn't give a crap what I do unless the Olympics come to town and all they will have me do is close for a month?

 

And, I didn't say ending regulations is the answer. I said level the playing field.

Would you save more money by using lead or by paying your employees $5 a day?

[BigRedBuster]

I agree. But, it is impossible to get changed. I have personally been involved trying.

 

AND, that only takes into consideration that one aspect of it. It still doesn't settle the issue with wages, governmental subsidies and other environmental regulations my company and domestic industry must face.

 

Another example that is in my industry. We need more capacity in my industry to manufacture raw materials. My raw materials come from natural gas. We have HUGE amounts of that in the US. We should be building more manufacturing of that raw material here. We aren't. Why???? Environmental regulations either prevent it or make it so expensive to get through the process that those companies are building plants on the Pacific Rim and Europe. They make this product there out of oil and coal. Natural gas makes a better product, but we can't increase our production here because of the government.

 

FYI....My industry hasn't had an environmental or health problem from our products and production in probably 60 years. There is no reason why not to build more here.

[BigRedBuster]

Ending regulations will not bring manufacturing back to American soil. The only thing that will do that is wage equality. If I can pay a skilled worker 50 cents a day to make an iPod, why would I pay an American worker $160 a day?

 

This whole "regulations" thing is a boondoggle. It's coming from people who don't want the government watching them. The same kind of people who wrecked our economy a few years back, threatening another global market meltdown.

 

Sorry, ending regulations isn't the answer. Anyone telling you different is lying to you.

 

Wrong....

 

Yes, your wage issue is a real issue.

 

BUT, if I have a manufacturing plant that has to abide by very strict environmental regulations in the US which would greatly increase my costs, why wouldn't I build it in China where I don't have to worry about that at all and the government doesn't give a crap what I do unless the Olympics come to town and all they will have me do is close for a month?

 

And, I didn't say ending regulations is the answer. I said level the playing field.

Would you save more money by using lead or by paying your employees $5 a day?

 

I guess probably the labor but I really don't know. It could be close. BUT, it really doesn't matter. Both situations make our company less competitive.

[carlfense]

Ending regulations will not bring manufacturing back to American soil. The only thing that will do that is wage equality. If I can pay a skilled worker 50 cents a day to make an iPod, why would I pay an American worker $160 a day?

 

This whole "regulations" thing is a boondoggle. It's coming from people who don't want the government watching them. The same kind of people who wrecked our economy a few years back, threatening another global market meltdown.

 

Sorry, ending regulations isn't the answer. Anyone telling you different is lying to you.

 

Wrong....

 

Yes, your wage issue is a real issue.

 

BUT, if I have a manufacturing plant that has to abide by very strict environmental regulations in the US which would greatly increase my costs, why wouldn't I build it in China where I don't have to worry about that at all and the government doesn't give a crap what I do unless the Olympics come to town and all they will have me do is close for a month?

 

And, I didn't say ending regulations is the answer. I said level the playing field.

Would you save more money by using lead or by paying your employees $5 a day?

 

I guess probably the labor but I really don't know. It could be close. BUT, it really doesn't matter. Both situations make our company less competitive.

Well, at least you don't have to ship internationally, right? That glass looks half full.

[knapplc]

Ending regulations will not bring manufacturing back to American soil. The only thing that will do that is wage equality. If I can pay a skilled worker 50 cents a day to make an iPod, why would I pay an American worker $160 a day?

 

This whole "regulations" thing is a boondoggle. It's coming from people who don't want the government watching them. The same kind of people who wrecked our economy a few years back, threatening another global market meltdown.

 

Sorry, ending regulations isn't the answer. Anyone telling you different is lying to you.

 

Wrong....

 

Yes, your wage issue is a real issue.

 

BUT, if I have a manufacturing plant that has to abide by very strict environmental regulations in the US which would greatly increase my costs, why wouldn't I build it in China where I don't have to worry about that at all and the government doesn't give a crap what I do unless the Olympics come to town and all they will have me do is close for a month?

 

And, I didn't say ending regulations is the answer. I said level the playing field.

 

I quoted you poorly, I'm sorry for that. And I didn't mean to imply that wage equality is the primary reason. Certainly regulations have a role to play. I just think the wage thing (and employee benefits, etc) is a larger slice of the pie.

[BigRedBuster]

Not sure why that matters but I do ship some internationally.

[carlfense]

Not sure why that matters but I do ship some internationally.

Just noting that if you chose to manufacture in China and your primary market is the US . . . your shipping costs would probably go up. That'd partially offset (a small amount, I'm sure) the increased profits from cheaper materials and labor.