Gun Control

[carlfense]

 

 

In what way? If you feel this way, what is your solution, Junior? Take 'em all away? How do you propose getting the genie back in the bottle?

 

Um, in the crazed, lunatic conspiracy sort of way.

 

But my favorite part was the blatant, unabashed racism:

 

Affirmative action -- Both large-scale military base slayings were carried out by protected minorities. We can say without much fear of contradiction that Nidal Hassan was covered by someone -- probably many someones -- in the military hierarchy due to a desire to have a Muslim officer to show off in public. Despite his lectures praising Jihadi terrorists, his refusal to serve in theatres involving combat against "fellow Muslims," and his Jihad r' Us business cards, Hasan was shielded right up to the day he opened fire at Fort Hood. Needless to say, nobody in today's debased officer corps suffered for this.

The same process is not at all unlikely in the case of Aaron Alexis. A black Buddhist is a twofer, a catch that any affirmative action officer would boast about for the rest of his career. It's unlikely the vetting process went deeper than that. It's well known that when racial quotas are involved, other criteria are thrust aside. This practice has become life-threatening. We'll see more of it.

 

Racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

Please show me, based upon the definition above, how racism was involved. And, if you think that when any type of quota is involved that quality doesn't suffer? Well, I can't help you there. I see it happen in our Armed Forces, Fire Departments, Police Forces etc. regularly.

 

Do you really believe that Nadal wasn't shielded? Dude was a known, raging fundamentalist. He got shuffled around to be somebody else's problems many times instead of someone blowing the whistle. All in fear of retribution. That's a double fail. One for the system and one for the gutless officers that facilitated his rampage by not doing the right thing. Yay, career progression.

 

You still haven't told me your plan either. What's your solution to stop these shootings?

 

Is this the part where I get accused of being a racist by someone here? I'm kinda new here so I'm not sure...

 

No . . . the racism accusations are probably more likely where you're referring to people in an entire area as less than human.

 

See here, for example:

http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/70396-iraq-will-it-fall-to-the-terrorists/?view=findpost&p=1373593

[Junior]

Racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

1. Please show me, based upon the definition above, how racism was involved. 2. And, if you think that when any type of quota is involved that quality doesn't suffer? Well, I can't help you there. I see it happen in our Armed Forces, Fire Departments, Police Forces etc. regularly.

 

3. Do you really believe that Nadal wasn't shielded? Dude was a known, raging fundamentalist. He got shuffled around to be somebody else's problems many times instead of someone blowing the whistle. All in fear of retribution. That's a double fail. One for the system and one for the gutless officers that facilitated his rampage by not doing the right thing. Yay, career progression.

 

4. You still haven't told me your plan either. What's your solution to stop these shootings?

 

5. Is this the part where I get accused of being a racist by someone here? I'm kinda new here so I'm not sure...

 

 

 

Sigh. I really don't even know where to begin. Let's start by numbering your statements and then I will systematically try to work through them.

 

1. Based on your own definition, I would invoke the use of the word prejudice. The author's assumption is that Aaron Alexis is a "black buddhist" twofer on the affirmative action front, and therefore that was the sole reason he was promoted. "It is unlikely the vetting process went further than that." But the author doesn't know this, they assume it. They assume because he is black and buddhist, he was undeservedly promoted. This is prejudice, hence racist by your definition.

 

2. Quotas are generally a bad thing. I am a firm believer that the most qualified person should get the job, regardless of race, creed, or gender. However, they don't inherently mean performance must suffer. Just because you hire a black guy, or a Muslim, or a woman for a position does not mean that they are unqualified. If you hire unqualified people for a position, that is bad. Being a minority, however, does not make you unqualified. I'm shocked that I have to spell this out. Though, if you have evidence that racial hiring quotas cause performance to suffer, I would ask you to share it so we can all see the light.

 

3. I know nothing about Nidal being a "raging fundamentalist". I know that he sent emails to a "al Qaeda sympathizer" and that the FBI deemed him to be not a threat for whatever reason. Anything beyond that is baseless speculation.

 

4. I've mentioned in this thread, on this page, that I would like to see expanded background checks and the restoration of power to the ATF that was gutted by the Tiahrt Amendment as starting points. That you haven't read that post of mine, isn't my fault. It's on this page.

 

5. I've not accused you of being racist. I am accusing the author of that mindless rant (I can't in good conscience call it an article) of being a racist. Because he clearly is. Five minutes on that website looking at other "articles" will demonstrate that point, if this one you linked to didn't to it already.

[MidnightRider]

Where did I ever say that being a minority makes one unqualified? You would never hear that out of my mouth and I'm stunned that you made that leap. I think his point was that, given his status as a minority (or whatever the particular quota may be) nobody would have blown the whistle on this guy if they did find something shady, due to fear of retribution. Yeah, I tried to get through a few of the other articles on that site and just couldn't do it. Maybe when I feel that I'm falling short on self loathing, I'll give it another go.

 

Oh, and the ATF part? AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA! Whew, thanks. I needed that. That clusterf#ck will be one of the first to go when I am made King. Along with the DEA (oh hell, the entire Dept of Homeland Security), the IRS, USBP and many others.

 

Do yourself a favor and conduct a bit more research on Nadal. You will be floored when you see what was overlooked and flat out ignored. Trust me, its out there. He could have been stopped.

 

Edit: Oh, and the NSA. How could I have forgotten them? Screw you NSA!

[Junior]

Where did I ever say that being a minority makes one unqualified? You would never hear that out of my mouth and I'm stunned that you made that leap. I think his point was that, given his status as a minority (or whatever the particular quota may be) nobody would have blown the whistle on this guy if they did find something shady, due to fear of retribution. Yeah, I tried to get through a few of the other articles on that site and just couldn't do it. Maybe when I feel that I'm falling short on self loathing, I'll give it another go.

 

Oh, and the ATF part? AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA! Whew, thanks. I needed that. That clusterf#ck will be one of the first to go when I am made King. Along with the DEA (oh hell, the entire Dept of Homeland Security), the IRS, USBP and many others.

 

Do yourself a favor and conduct a bit more research on Nadal. You will be floored when you see what was overlooked and flat out ignored. Trust me, its out there. He could have been stopped.

 

Edit: Oh, and the NSA. How could I have forgotten them? Screw you NSA!

 

I understand what his point was. And it is racist. End of story.

 

Ah, once again "trust me, it's out there". What's your issue with the ATF? I assume the answer will involve "jack booted thugs".

 

Also, Nadal:

 

 

Nidal Malik Hasan:

 

[MidnightRider]

 

Where did I ever say that being a minority makes one unqualified? You would never hear that out of my mouth and I'm stunned that you made that leap. I think his point was that, given his status as a minority (or whatever the particular quota may be) nobody would have blown the whistle on this guy if they did find something shady, due to fear of retribution. Yeah, I tried to get through a few of the other articles on that site and just couldn't do it. Maybe when I feel that I'm falling short on self loathing, I'll give it another go.

 

Oh, and the ATF part? AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA! Whew, thanks. I needed that. That clusterf#ck will be one of the first to go when I am made King. Along with the DEA (oh hell, the entire Dept of Homeland Security), the IRS, USBP and many others.

 

Do yourself a favor and conduct a bit more research on Nadal. You will be floored when you see what was overlooked and flat out ignored. Trust me, its out there. He could have been stopped.

 

Edit: Oh, and the NSA. How could I have forgotten them? Screw you NSA!

 

I understand what his point was. And it is racist. End of story.

 

Ah, once again "trust me, it's out there". What's your issue with the ATF? I assume the answer will involve "jack booted thugs".

 

Also, Nadal:

 

 

Nidal Malik Hasan:

 

 

Got me on the spelling. As for the rest, not so much.

 

I have many issues with the ATF although, they haven't reached Jack Booted Thug status just yet. Oh wait, there's that pesky Fast and Furious thing, the pressuring of gun store owners to provide form 4473's, I could go on and on. Eureka! They have reached Jack Booted Thug status. Awesome! Thanks for helping me along with that.

 

I told you the info on Nidal is out there, all one needs to do is Google it. Instead, you resort to a snarky reply as the research probably wouldn't fit your agenda. Got it.

[Junior]

Got me on the spelling. As for the rest, not so much.

 

 

I have many issues with the ATF although, they haven't reached Jack Booted Thug status just yet. Oh wait, there's that pesky Fast and Furious thing, the pressuring of gun store owners to provide form 4473's, I could go on and on. Oh wait, they have reached Jack Booted Thug status. Awesome. Thanks for helping me along with that.

 

I told you the info on Nidal is out there, all one needs to do is Google it. Instead, you resort to a snarky reply as the research probably wouldn't fit your agenda. Got it.

 

 

Typically, people supply the evidence to support their own claims. So if it is easy to find, you should be able to do it quickly. I'll wait.

 

As far as the ATF... so? So they want to require gun dealers to provide form 4473? Information on who bought what guns? That seems like... something that is legally required and is their job. THOSE JACK BOOTED THUGS!

[MidnightRider]

 

Got me on the spelling. As for the rest, not so much.

 

 

I have many issues with the ATF although, they haven't reached Jack Booted Thug status just yet. Oh wait, there's that pesky Fast and Furious thing, the pressuring of gun store owners to provide form 4473's, I could go on and on. Oh wait, they have reached Jack Booted Thug status. Awesome. Thanks for helping me along with that.

 

I told you the info on Nidal is out there, all one needs to do is Google it. Instead, you resort to a snarky reply as the research probably wouldn't fit your agenda. Got it.

 

 

Typically, people supply the evidence to support their own claims. So if it is easy to find, you should be able to do it quickly. I'll wait.

 

As far as the ATF... so? So they want to require gun dealers to provide form 4473? Information on who bought what guns? That seems like... something that is legally required and is their job. THOSE JACK BOOTED THUGS!

 

I won't do your research for you. You must have been asleep during the weeks following the Ft Hood shooting if you didn't catch all of the dirty details.

 

Yeah, those 4473's are to remain in possession of the gun seller. If they close up shop or die, only then are they mailed to a federally controlled storage facility. So no, its not their job.

 

Why do they need to know who owns what anyway? Are you cool with them tracking everything you say on the Internet while exercising your 1st ammendment rights?

[Junior]

If I say "Barack Obama worships the devil", is it incumbent upon me to provide evidence to fit my claim or you to go out looking for it?

 

Seems to me knowing who is purchasing weapons is useful when you need to crosscheck who is allowed by law to have guns. Felons, for example are not. In turn, this aides the ATF in tracking gun dealers who sell illegally.

[LouisianaHusker]

 

If I say "Barack Obama worships the devil", is it incumbent upon me to provide evidence to fit my claim or you to go out looking for it?

 

Seems to me knowing who is purchasing weapons is useful when you need to crosscheck who is allowed by law to have guns. Felons, for example are not. In turn, this aides the ATF in tracking gun dealers who sell illegally.

 

 

And what felon in their right mind would willingly go into a sporting goods store, pawn shop or any other place that sells firearms and has the buyer fill out a 4473 and fill it out knowingly that they can't buy or possess a firearm?

[Junior]

 

 

If I say "Barack Obama worships the devil", is it incumbent upon me to provide evidence to fit my claim or you to go out looking for it?

 

Seems to me knowing who is purchasing weapons is useful when you need to crosscheck who is allowed by law to have guns. Felons, for example are not. In turn, this aides the ATF in tracking gun dealers who sell illegally.

 

 

And what felon in their right mind would willingly go into a sporting goods store, pawn shop or any other place that sells firearms and has the buyer fill out a 4473 and fill it out knowingly that they can't buy or possess a firearm?

 

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/22/fugitives-gun-background-checks/7959529/

 

 

Millions of fugitives can pass undetected through federal background checks and buy guns illegally because police departments across the country routinely fail to put their names into a national database that tracks people on the run from the law.

 

Those background checks, conducted by the FBI, are designed to block fugitives, felons, the mentally ill and others who might be violent from buying firearms. They automatically bar sales to anyone identified in federal records as having an outstanding arrest warrant, even if it is for a minor crime.

 

Yet despite years of attempts to shore up the government's National Instant Background Check System, enormous gaps remain, particularly when it comes to identifying fugitives. In five states alone, law enforcement agencies failed to provide information to the FBI about at least 2.5 million outstanding arrest warrants, police and court records show. Among them are tens of thousands of people wanted for violent offenses and other felonies.

---

It's clear that fugitives frequently are in the market for guns. The FBI has blocked more than 113,000 gun purchases since 1998 because of outstanding warrants, the second-leading reason for failed background checks. Those denials were based only on warrants reported to the FBI, and the handful of states that consult their own records before approving a purchase.

[MidnightRider]

 

If I say "Barack Obama worships the devil", is it incumbent upon me to provide evidence to fit my claim or you to go out looking for it?

 

Seems to me knowing who is purchasing weapons is useful when you need to crosscheck who is allowed by law to have guns. Felons, for example are not. In turn, this aides the ATF in tracking gun dealers who sell illegally.

 

Um, unless you were living in a cave for the weeks following the Ft Hood shooting, there is absolutely no way you could have missed those reports. I lurked this site for quite a while before joining and I noted early on that this was your go to move. I'm not your errand boy and I won't do your research for you.

 

I don't need the federal government keeping track of how many lawn mowers, food processors or guns I own. Its none of their damned business. Period. Your definition of "useful" and mine are light years apart. How many felons do you think actually go to a gun store to purchase a weapon? That's a very weak support statement.

 

BTW, you never answered this question: "are you cool with them tracking everything you say on the Internet while exercising your 1st ammendment rights?" Why is that? You strike me as the "well, I'm not doing anything wrong so I'm cool with it" type. Is this correct?

[MidnightRider]

 

 

 

If I say "Barack Obama worships the devil", is it incumbent upon me to provide evidence to fit my claim or you to go out looking for it?

 

Seems to me knowing who is purchasing weapons is useful when you need to crosscheck who is allowed by law to have guns. Felons, for example are not. In turn, this aides the ATF in tracking gun dealers who sell illegally.

 

 

And what felon in their right mind would willingly go into a sporting goods store, pawn shop or any other place that sells firearms and has the buyer fill out a 4473 and fill it out knowingly that they can't buy or possess a firearm?

 

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/22/fugitives-gun-background-checks/7959529/

 

 

Millions of fugitives can pass undetected through federal background checks and buy guns illegally because police departments across the country routinely fail to put their names into a national database that tracks people on the run from the law.

 

Those background checks, conducted by the FBI, are designed to block fugitives, felons, the mentally ill and others who might be violent from buying firearms. They automatically bar sales to anyone identified in federal records as having an outstanding arrest warrant, even if it is for a minor crime.

 

Yet despite years of attempts to shore up the government's National Instant Background Check System, enormous gaps remain, particularly when it comes to identifying fugitives. In five states alone, law enforcement agencies failed to provide information to the FBI about at least 2.5 million outstanding arrest warrants, police and court records show. Among them are tens of thousands of people wanted for violent offenses and other felonies.

 

Its interesting that the article you quoted mentions the NCIS as a preventive measure to prevent mentally ill people from purchasing firearms. They're doing a bang up f#ucking job in that respect, aren't they? Every single mass shooting in the history of this country was perpetrated by a crazy mofo. What a joke. You seriously couldn't do better than that tripe?

[Junior]

 

 

If I say "Barack Obama worships the devil", is it incumbent upon me to provide evidence to fit my claim or you to go out looking for it?

 

Seems to me knowing who is purchasing weapons is useful when you need to crosscheck who is allowed by law to have guns. Felons, for example are not. In turn, this aides the ATF in tracking gun dealers who sell illegally.

 

Um, unless you were living in a cave for the weeks following the Ft Hood shooting, there is absolutely no way you could have missed those reports. I lurked this site for quite a while before joining and I noted early on that this was your go to move. I'm not your errand boy and I won't do your research for you.

 

I don't need the federal government keeping track of how many lawn mowers, food processors or guns I own. Its none of their damned business. Period. Your definition of "useful" and mine are light years apart. How many felons do you think actually go to a gun store to purchase a weapon? That's a very weak support statement.

 

BTW, you never answered this question: "are you cool with them tracking everything you say on the Internet while exercising your 1st ammendment rights?" Why is that? You strike me as the "well, I'm not doing anything wrong so I'm cool with it" type. Is this correct?

 

 

My go to move is to ask people to supply evidence to support their claims? Guilty.

 

No, I'm not a fan of people tracking my internet movements. But then that's not really an analogous claim to background checks on gun sales. It is illegal for felons to own weapons, so somehow we have to be able to check for that. It isn't illegal for felons to use the internet or send an email.

[Junior]

Its interesting that the article you quoted mentions the NCIS as a preventive measure to prevent mentally ill people from purchasing firearms. They're doing a bang up f#ucking job in that respect, aren't they? What a joke. You seriously couldn't do better than that tripe?

 

 

Perhaps they would be doing a better job of it if the NRA hadn't worked so hard strip the ATF and FBI of their ability to track gun sales.

 

If you want better data, It's out there, trust me. I'm not your errand boy.

[Junior]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/gov-hickenlooper-cites-stats-showing-stupid-criminals-are-caught-by-gun-background-checks

 

 

DENVER - Gov. John Hickenlooper unleashed a barrage of jaw-dropping numbers for critics who often tell him, “Criminals aren’t stupid, they’re not going to sign up for (gun) background checks.”

 

“Well, no one told the criminals that, and it turns out that many criminals are stupid," Hickenlooper said Wednesday after signing legislation requiring universal background checks for gun purchases.

In 2012, he said, background checks prevented 5,000 gun purchases out of more than 320,000 applications.

Of those blocked gun sales, Hickenlooper said:

- 38 were individuals either accused or convicted of homicide.

- 133 were people accused or convicted of sexual assault.

- 600 were people accused or convicted of burglary.

- Over 1,000 were people accused or convicted of felony assault.

- “400 individuals had restraining orders against them from a court and we’re trying to buy a gun.”

“Indeed, if you want any proof positive that criminals are not as smart as some people give them credit for, 236 individuals when they showed up to pick up their newly purchased gun, we arrested them because there were outstanding arrest warrants for them,” the governor said.

“I don’t see how you can argue that this isn’t (of) significant value. Over 2,000 people who had violent history were stopped from buying a weapon” in 2012, he added.