Is there still a stigma attached to JUCO players?

[HuskerFaithful]

It seems as though some fans on some boards are upset that we're taking several more JUCO's this recruiting season. I don't see the big deal. Some of these guys will be around 2-3 years, plus they already have experience at a level higher than high school. When a team has immediate needs, such as O-line and defensive backs, it is almost impossible to find a high school senior who can jump into the fray. My question is then, does it bother you that we're taking JUCO's or is it a sign of the times where we need those immediate impact players?

[huskerstag]

It seems to me that we're in a situation right now where we have to take some JUCO players to fill our needs. That may be the way things go when you're targeting the top talent in the country, you don't always get all the players you need. So I'm fine with getting some JUCOs to fill a need as we have now.

 

However, I'll be worried if we become a program who heavily relies on JUCOs. Even though they have experience at a level above HS, it still takes time to develop (D. Williams, Z. Bowman) and that usually leaves them with only 1 year to make a significant impact and then you have to find someone to fill their position agian. There's also the possibility they don't come around all, which IMO is one of the reasons KSU has fallen off lately. Relying on JUCOs is IMO not a reliable way to run a program. A couple a year are fine, but I'm hoping the days of taking several to fill a class are over either this year or next.

[Hunter94]

[Utah_Husker]

I don't see a problem with it. As has been said, JUCOs are a great way to address immediate needs. I don't see much difference between JUCOs who give us two really good years and five star high school recruits who will have one adjustment year, give two good years and then have a really good chance of skipping their last year for the NFL.

[DaveH]

Some people don't like them for a few reasons, but mostly it's because of their limited time. But, this varies from JC to JC. Some players will come in with 3 years to play 3. Others might come in with 3 years to play 2. Still others could only have 2 years to play 2.

 

Also, usually the reason they ended up in a Juco is because of qualifying problems. However, that isn't always the case. Case in point this year, Victory Haines. The guy is a great student and was right out of high school.

 

What does this mean? It means, especially in the 2x2 case, that the player has to come in and play right away. There isn't enough time to bring him along in the program, he has to be ready to play right away. Now, some players are obviously going to come in and do great things, but there could also be players that come in and don't break the 2 deep ever.

 

My opinion on the whole Juco thing is this. We have depth problems that need to be filled next year. We need guys who can come in and step up immediately. Usually, this is where a team will scour the juco ranks and that's just what NU is doing. Now, that doesn't mean we aren't rounding out our class this year with HS players.

 

Take O line for example. We are taking Victory and Nicks as Juco Olinemen. We are also taking Cruz Barrett, DJ Jones and Ricky Henry as HS O-linemen. Don't forget we have Roark and Picou, both who redshirted this last year.

 

This is just an example of how this staff is apparently filling immediate holes with Juco's, but also trying to get some HS kids in that they can develop.

[Redman]

Sometimes this is what it takes to satisfy those who wish to "win now". I do not think this will go on forever, it is a way of taking care of immediate needs. Once those positions have depth and experience, the reliance on JUCOs will go away. Although, I am sure they will always accept JUCOs like Tyrell Farley and Demorrio Williams.

[AR Husker Fan]

JUCOs have some inherent problems - and some inherent benefits.

 

The Pluses:

 

1. More physically mature. Physically, you're getting a product that is close to finished - or at least it's clearer what potential for growth they have compared to a 17 or 18-year old.

2. Have gotten over the "away from home" syndrome most kids go through.

3. Have - presumably - played in a system that is a bit closer to college.

4. Have - again, presumably - played against better competition and have a little better idea of the speed of the college game.

5. Have been through a few hard knocks - hence being in JC in the first place - and might be a little more appreciative of the chance at a D-1 slot. They might also be a bit more able to handle adversity.

 

The Minuses:

 

1. There's a reason most of them are in JC to begin with...

2. They may have the "instant stardom" syndrome; i.e., they have a limited time left to "make it to the next level" and therefore may be a bit more resistent to changing positions, techniques, etc.

3. Have a limited time in which to contribute.

4. Generally need some time to become acclimated to the college game - rare is the JC that can actually come in and immediately contribute.

5. Limited loyalty - someone that is going to be in the system for only a couple of years as opposed to 4 or 5 years may not have the same degree of loyalty to the program.

 

Of course, all of this depends on the individual player. As a rule, JUCOs are "quick-fix" guys. There are a few exceptions where the kid is a stud that was simply a bit too lazy with the books, but only a few. For the most part, you look for a JC kid to come in and plug a hole - not necessarily be the star at a position (although that is certainly possible). They provide depth and someone that should be able to contribute more quickly than a high school player.

 

But I can't think of any team that has had sustained, overwhelming sucess by relying on JUCOs. For that, you must use high school players that will be in the program longer.

 

In other words, once the foundation is in place, the bulk of each class has to be high school players, with the occasional stud JC kid for good measure.

 

I suspect that as time goes on, and as depth is re-established in the program, you'll see fewer and fewer JUCOs in the program. I hope so, anyway...

[NamelessHusker]

Everyone has made some good points, but at the same time, people need to keep in mind that kids wants to play for a program who is challanging for national titles. NU hasn't done that since 2001 and that's why NU has dropped on some high school recruits list as serious destionations. That's why teams like USC, Miami, Florida St, Texas don't have a problem recruiting kids (the fact they are warm weather schools helps them out ALOT). Some recruits just don't want to be that far away from home and any smart person will tell you DISTANCE factors into a HS kids mind 8 times out of 10. The other one i mentioned is "Are they winning and challanging for a National title". The other one is "When will i see playing time.

 

Lets be honest, kids dont want an education these days, they want to come in, play and crack the 2 deep..win a national title, and go to the NFL. USC, Miami are nothing but football factories for the NFL (there's a reason why they have poor graduation rates). JUCO's on the other hand are just honored to even be considered for a scholarship from a big time school and 9 times out of 10, they will jump at it without any regards to playing time, depth chart..etc

[HANC]

I don't see the big deal....... Everyone keeps referring to Kansas State whenever they don't agree with all of the JUCO's..... So what !!!!!!

 

I completely understand the draw-backs such as a kid may not pan out, and he may only have 1 good yr....... Hey , wihtout the JUCO route, we wouldn't have won 3 games this year....Even Beck says that he wasn't even close to being ready to play..... Taylor is an absolute savior for now !!!! He may have single handily SAVED this program I know that is a huge statement, but if we don't win 6-7 games and go to a bowl, this program would be way down in the dumps !!!!

 

JUCO guys can play, and I will take my chances on these guys, expecially if you need immediatel help (I believe we had a JUCO Heisman winner - Rozier)

 

And the KSU arguement makes absolutely NO SENSE to me.... Now, I hate those bast@rds more than anyone, but why is the comparison so negative? Last time I checked, KSU kicked ass during the last decade with JUCO guys !!!!!!! Man, that would suck.... They contended for the Big 12 and NC (or top 5), using JUCO kids...... IMO, the reason KSU has dropped has nothing to do with the JUCO route !!!! Does anyone realize that Snyder lost many good assistant coaches during the past 5 years, and those guys not only could coach, but they were GREAT RECRUITERS.... the fact that the these coaches are not there anymore is why KSU dropped.. The JUCO route hasn't "cost" them anything IMO....

 

I like the High School kids, and we should focus mainly on these guys, but is is okay to bring at least 7-8 JUCO guys a year..... you can survive with this mix.

[Benard]

It seems as though some fans on some boards are upset that we're taking several more JUCO's this recruiting season. I don't see the big deal. Some of these guys will be around 2-3 years, plus they already have experience at a level higher than high school. When a team has immediate needs, such as O-line and defensive backs, it is almost impossible to find a high school senior who can jump into the fray. My question is then, does it bother you that we're taking JUCO's or is it a sign of the times where we need those immediate impact players?

I think every nu fan on any message board gave snyder and ksu all the crap in the world for getting all the jucos but now all the sudden its just fine and dandy. I think its ridiculous personally. Jucos are about as big a shot in the dark as there is. Sure you can find a demorrio out there but you can find a bunch of flops to. We found a bunch last year with a couple that worked out ok.

[chuckd]

Sure you can find a demorrio out there but you can find a bunch of flops to.  We found a bunch last year with a couple that worked out ok.

Tough to define these kids as "flops" when they are still on the team.

 

Perhaps, you should let them exhaust their eligibility before you define their college careers.

[DaveH]

I think every nu fan on any message board gave snyder and ksu all the crap in the world for getting all the jucos but now all the sudden its just fine and dandy.

Classic. Quit making people up. How could anyone ever know that?

 

Besides that, for the most part KSU made their living year to year for a good decade on Juco's. They are being brought in now at NU to fill specific needs.

 

I would expect in the coming years for the number of Juco's recruited to go down, of course, that's assuming that:

 

a) NU get's what they want out of the HS ranks

B) There are no real possible playmakers in the Juco ranks.

 

If a kid can play and qualify, he should be at NU. Period. I don't care where he came from.

 

FYI - a little bit of history for everyone. Before 04 it seems NU would take anywhere from 1 to 3 Juco's. In '04 we took 5 Juco's. In '05 we took 10 or 11.

[DJR313]

 

FYI - a little bit of history for everyone. Before 04 it seems NU would take anywhere from 1 to 3 Juco's. In '04 we took 5 Juco's. In '05 we took 10 or 11.

Taking that a step further. Back in the late 1960s, ya know when Devaney missed taking NU to a bowl game in '68, NU hit Junior college ranks in California real hard to fill immediate gaps on the depth chart. Devaney was advised to do this by assistant coach Tom Osborne. 2 years later, the team is undefeated and splits the title, the next year they win it outright. Irish coach uses junior college players for immediate need to re-energize the program. And some people say Callahan knows nothing of Nebraska history.

[husker rob]

how can you say that a JUCO player is the bigest shot in the dark? they have played at a higher level, are more mature, and more experienced.

 

if i were a head coach and lord knows that i am not, I would take a JUCO that has 3yrs to play 3 or 3 to play 2 over a HS kid anyday. now a 2 for 2 player is more of a risk and this player better be a real stud that can play right away

 

how many HS scholarship athletes have come to NU and never really played because they just couldnt live up to their own press? or leave the program because they are homesick, ect. quite a few over the years.

 

recruiting is a gamble on any player so why not put the odds in your favor and take a kid with more experiance?

[AR Husker Fan]

***SNIP***

 

Jucos are about as big a shot in the dark as there is. Sure you can find a demorrio out there but you can find a bunch of flops to. We found a bunch last year with a couple that worked out ok.

Atta boy! That's the way to support kids whose only fault is that they wanted to play for NU!