My fellow Christians, what would Pentecost look like Today?

[Someone]

I thought this was interesting. Agree or disagree?

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/irreverin/2013/05/what-does-this-mean/

 

This blog asked the question in the thread title.

 

Here is part of the answer.

 

What would that look like in our time and place? What would it take for people of faith to all of a sudden get over themselves, let go of being RIGHT, and seek a word from the holy in the midst of our human, political, institutional and spirit-crushing conflict?

If you ask me, it would look like moderation. It would look like the sacred space of that long-lost place we used to call middle ground. Perhaps, in the language of the Spirit, we might stop chasing the easy answers that polarize us; stop claiming that our political party lines are ’faith-based;’ and begin to seek a prophetic word in that blessed gray space that lies between all of our certainties. Because really:

-It IS possible to be pro-choice, AND anti-abortion.

-It IS possible to want background checks, and still support the right to carry.

-It IS possible to be for family values; while also working, hoping, and praying for marriage equality.

-It IS possible to want welfare reform and moderation in spending, while also seeking to serve the poorest among us.

-It IS possible to abhor the death penalty, but still want justice for violence.

-It IS possible to seek the Kingdom of God in our own time and place, while believing powerfully in God’s future plan for a new earth

-It IS possible to be both spiritual and religious

-It IS possible to transform the world by bearing the image of Christ; without demanding that everyone else speak OUR language of faith–in school, government, media, and greeting cards.

Want to know what’s NOT possible?

-Being right, all the time.

-Having the world as we know it stay the same.

-Having everyone look just like us.

-Getting our way.

-Did I mention, being right?

[Junior]

Want to know what’s NOT possible?

 

-Being right, all the time.

 

 

Tell that to my wife!

 

 

[VectorVictor]

I thought this was interesting. Agree or disagree?

 

http://www.patheos.c...does-this-mean/

 

This blog asked the question in the thread title.

 

Here is part of the answer.

 

What would that look like in our time and place? What would it take for people of faith to all of a sudden get over themselves, let go of being RIGHT, and seek a word from the holy in the midst of our human, political, institutional and spirit-crushing conflict?

 

If you ask me, it would look like moderation. It would look like the sacred space of that long-lost place we used to call middle ground. Perhaps, in the language of the Spirit, we might stop chasing the easy answers that polarize us; stop claiming that our political party lines are ’faith-based;’ and begin to seek a prophetic word in that blessed gray space that lies between all of our certainties. Because really:

 

-It IS possible to be pro-choice, AND anti-abortion.

 

-It IS possible to want background checks, and still support the right to carry.

 

-It IS possible to be for family values; while also working, hoping, and praying for marriage equality.

 

-It IS possible to want welfare reform and moderation in spending, while also seeking to serve the poorest among us.

 

-It IS possible to abhor the death penalty, but still want justice for violence.

 

-It IS possible to seek the Kingdom of God in our own time and place, while believing powerfully in God’s future plan for a new earth

 

-It IS possible to be both spiritual and religious

 

-It IS possible to transform the world by bearing the image of Christ; without demanding that everyone else speak OUR language of faith–in school, government, media, and greeting cards.

 

Want to know what’s NOT possible?

 

-Being right, all the time.

 

-Having the world as we know it stay the same.

 

-Having everyone look just like us.

 

-Getting our way.

 

-Did I mention, being right?

 

Very good find, and good food for thought. Too often, life gives us challenges that are neither black, nor white...yet people have to twist and gerrymander the truth to get the issue to fit into either one of those two pigeonholes.

 

Thoughtful moderation is the key, and it's not just in Church where this needs to be embraced and followed. Politics, education...thoughtful and meaningful moderation would be of great benefit to everyone.

[Landlord]

The article is weird, and makes a few presuppositions that I think are misguided.

 

The point, as much as I can make, is that we should change our focus to be more directly in tune with the Holy Spirit. The reality, however, is that the Holy Spirit chooses how and when to work and fill, thus resulting in a change of focus. The author is implying, even if they don't realize it, that our actions are what predicate change when the truth of Scripture shows us that our actions change as a result, not a catalyst, of God's grace.

 

Pentecost didn't happen because the disciples and people gathered got over themselves and sought God's word. Pentecost happened because Jesus sent the Holy Spirit who regenerated hearts to have new desires and focus.

 

So what would that look like today?

 

It would first look like people being saved and regenerated, confessing Jesus as Lord and following.

 

Then it would look like a people being filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

Then it would look like a people living in unity and harmony and selflessness, focusing outwards concerned with and living on mission. That mission being making disciples who make more disciples (included in which is meeting the physical needs of people; clothing the naked, feeding the starving, housing the homeless, loving the orphans, rescuing the captured, freeing the enslaved). Planting churches that plant churches. Proclaiming through Word and deed the gospel of Jesus to the ends of the Earth, not through legislation or legalism but through personal and intimate relationships.

[NUance]

The article is weird, and makes a few presuppositions that I think are misguided.

 

The point, as much as I can make, is that we should change our focus to be more directly in tune with the Holy Spirit. The reality, however, is that the Holy Spirit chooses how and when to work and fill, thus resulting in a change of focus. The author is implying, even if they don't realize it, that our actions are what predicate change when the truth of Scripture shows us that our actions change as a result, not a catalyst, of God's grace.

 

Pentecost didn't happen because the disciples and people gathered got over themselves and sought God's word. Pentecost happened because Jesus sent the Holy Spirit who regenerated hearts to have new desires and focus.

 

So what would that look like today?

 

It would first look like people being saved and regenerated, confessing Jesus as Lord and following.

 

Then it would look like a people being filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

Then it would look like a people living in unity and harmony and selflessness, focusing outwards concerned with and living on mission. That mission being making disciples who make more disciples (included in which is meeting the physical needs of people; clothing the naked, feeding the starving, housing the homeless, loving the orphans, rescuing the captured, freeing the enslaved). Planting churches that plant churches. Proclaiming through Word and deed the gospel of Jesus to the ends of the Earth, not through legislation or legalism but through personal and intimate relationships.

Excellent answer Landlord. +1 to you!

[TGHusker]

The article is weird, and makes a few presuppositions that I think are misguided.

 

The point, as much as I can make, is that we should change our focus to be more directly in tune with the Holy Spirit. The reality, however, is that the Holy Spirit chooses how and when to work and fill, thus resulting in a change of focus. The author is implying, even if they don't realize it, that our actions are what predicate change when the truth of Scripture shows us that our actions change as a result, not a catalyst, of God's grace.

 

Pentecost didn't happen because the disciples and people gathered got over themselves and sought God's word. Pentecost happened because Jesus sent the Holy Spirit who regenerated hearts to have new desires and focus.

 

So what would that look like today?

 

It would first look like people being saved and regenerated, confessing Jesus as Lord and following.

 

Then it would look like a people being filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

Then it would look like a people living in unity and harmony and selflessness, focusing outwards concerned with and living on mission. That mission being making disciples who make more disciples (included in which is meeting the physical needs of people; clothing the naked, feeding the starving, housing the homeless, loving the orphans, rescuing the captured, freeing the enslaved). Planting churches that plant churches. Proclaiming through Word and deed the gospel of Jesus to the ends of the Earth, not through legislation or legalism but through personal and intimate relationships.

Very well stated. We would major on the things Christ majored on minor on the other details. We would have an eternal perspective and not get so hung up on all of the hang nails here. Our lives would reflect the 'Fruit of the Spirit" - love, joy, peace, gentleness, faith, patience etc as we interact with the people we come into contact with - including those on this forum.

[Someone]

The article is weird, and makes a few presuppositions that I think are misguided.

 

The point, as much as I can make, is that we should change our focus to be more directly in tune with the Holy Spirit. The reality, however, is that the Holy Spirit chooses how and when to work and fill, thus resulting in a change of focus. The author is implying, even if they don't realize it, that our actions are what predicate change when the truth of Scripture shows us that our actions change as a result, not a catalyst, of God's grace.

 

Pentecost didn't happen because the disciples and people gathered got over themselves and sought God's word. Pentecost happened because Jesus sent the Holy Spirit who regenerated hearts to have new desires and focus.

 

So what would that look like today?

 

It would first look like people being saved and regenerated, confessing Jesus as Lord and following.

 

Then it would look like a people being filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

Then it would look like a people living in unity and harmony and selflessness, focusing outwards concerned with and living on mission. That mission being making disciples who make more disciples (included in which is meeting the physical needs of people; clothing the naked, feeding the starving, housing the homeless, loving the orphans, rescuing the captured, freeing the enslaved). Planting churches that plant churches. Proclaiming through Word and deed the gospel of Jesus to the ends of the Earth, not through legislation or legalism but through personal and intimate relationships.

You are clearly entitled to your opinion but it is darn hard to declare that your version of what be different today if Pentecost II occurred last week is the right version.

 

What I believe the point of the editorial is that we don't need the Holy Spirit to take control of our voice box or to display flames over our heads. The message of Pentecost can be applied today in our everyday lives and challenges.

 

The voice of the writer seems to speaking to a reader that might find themselves believing the in idea of Christianity but perhaps not active in a Christian church. You statements like "saved and regenerated, confessing Jesus as Lord...being filled with the Holy Spirit" are hard to grasp for someone who doesn't feel like their life today is shaped by God or the Holy Spirit. They can get bogged down in the concept of is that feeling physical or emotional.

 

The balance of what you wrote sounds like a vague description of what the writer clearly articulated with real life examples of some of today's most contentious issues.

 

Most importantly, it appears to me that this writer is listening to the Holy Spirit and putting the message into thoughts, actions and deeds better than what we seem to hear from so many Christian leaders who seem unwilling to accept and act on the instructions from the Holy Spirit.

 

Finally, I think that you (and some the the more conservative main line Christian Churches) total missed the ultimate message/mission of the Holy Spirit.

 

The message/mission is not about "making disciples who make more disciples (included in which is meeting the physical needs of people; clothing the naked, feeding the starving, housing the homeless, loving the orphans, rescuing the captured, freeing the enslaved)".

 

You have it backwards.

 

The message/mission is about meeting the physical needs of people; clothing the naked, feeding the starving, housing the homeless, loving the orphans, rescuing the captured, freeing the enslaved and when we do that, those who have been helped with become disciples and help others.

 

If you "Proclaim... through deed the gospel of Jesus to the ends of the Earth... through personal and intimate relationships" then the world will need more and more churches where that word is proclaimed.

[Landlord]

The message/mission is not about "making disciples who make more disciples (included in which is meeting the physical needs of people; clothing the naked, feeding the starving, housing the homeless, loving the orphans, rescuing the captured, freeing the enslaved)".

 

You have it backwards.

 

The message/mission is about meeting the physical needs of people; clothing the naked, feeding the starving, housing the homeless, loving the orphans, rescuing the captured, freeing the enslaved and when we do that, those who have been helped with become disciples and help others.

 

If you "Proclaim... through deed the gospel of Jesus to the ends of the Earth... through personal and intimate relationships" then the world will need more and more churches where that word is proclaimed.

 

 

You're saying the exact same thing (since I didn't give an order of priority to be forwards or backwards) but okay~

[Someone]

Good. Glad to here that.

 

I think the way you expressed it is open to a different interpretation.

 

Someone once ask a group that was part of "What is church growth." We had to write down the answer and them the leader read them. (The group was a bible study group, not a stewardship committee.)

 

6 of the 7 answers talked about membership and head count at worship and pledges and capital campaigns and revenue--butts and bucks.

The 7th read somthing like this: play a deep and meaningful role in is the spiritual and social lives of members and people in our community by sharing our abundant talents and resources to enact real and lasting change in the lives of others.

 

The idea was that if you do #7 well, all things that were suggested in #1-#6 would fall in place.

 

It's really is about what the true objective is and I hardly see them as 'the exact same thing'.

[Landlord]

Good. Glad to here that.

 

I think the way you expressed it is open to a different interpretation.

 

Someone once ask a group that was part of "What is church growth." We had to write down the answer and them the leader read them. (The group was a bible study group, not a stewardship committee.)

 

6 of the 7 answers talked about membership and head count at worship and pledges and capital campaigns and revenue--butts and bucks.

The 7th read somthing like this: play a deep and meaningful role in is the spiritual and social lives of members and people in our community by sharing our abundant talents and resources to enact real and lasting change in the lives of others.

 

The idea was that if you do #7 well, all things that were suggested in #1-#6 would fall in place.

 

It's really is about what the true objective is and I hardly see them as 'the exact same thing'.

 

 

The true objective is for God's glory to be made much of. For mankind to be glorifying him as much as able.

 

I agree with what you're saying while also acknowledging that the tendency, when placing priority on serving and filling physical needs (I don't make a distinction between physical vs. spiritual needs but believe they are two equally distinctive sides of the same coin), that the church turns into social workers with an agenda to make temporal lives better, while forgetting to actually extend the offer of eternal life.

 

If I clothe, feed and house people that have none of those things, that most certainly is bringing God glory, but if I leave that place without those people knowing about the truth of Jesus and His death in their place and invitation to follow Him, then I have fallen short of the true objective, of the Great Commission.

[Someone]

Good. Glad to here that.

 

I think the way you expressed it is open to a different interpretation.

 

Someone once ask a group that was part of "What is church growth." We had to write down the answer and them the leader read them. (The group was a bible study group, not a stewardship committee.)

 

6 of the 7 answers talked about membership and head count at worship and pledges and capital campaigns and revenue--butts and bucks.

The 7th read somthing like this: play a deep and meaningful role in is the spiritual and social lives of members and people in our community by sharing our abundant talents and resources to enact real and lasting change in the lives of others.

 

The idea was that if you do #7 well, all things that were suggested in #1-#6 would fall in place.

 

It's really is about what the true objective is and I hardly see them as 'the exact same thing'.

 

 

The true objective is for God's glory to be made much of. For mankind to be glorifying him as much as able.

 

That is a different true objective than my version of Christianity and most of the forms of christianity that I have studied.

[Landlord]

Good. Glad to here that.

 

I think the way you expressed it is open to a different interpretation.

 

Someone once ask a group that was part of "What is church growth." We had to write down the answer and them the leader read them. (The group was a bible study group, not a stewardship committee.)

 

6 of the 7 answers talked about membership and head count at worship and pledges and capital campaigns and revenue--butts and bucks.

The 7th read somthing like this: play a deep and meaningful role in is the spiritual and social lives of members and people in our community by sharing our abundant talents and resources to enact real and lasting change in the lives of others.

 

The idea was that if you do #7 well, all things that were suggested in #1-#6 would fall in place.

 

It's really is about what the true objective is and I hardly see them as 'the exact same thing'.

 

 

The true objective is for God's glory to be made much of. For mankind to be glorifying him as much as able.

 

That is a different true objective than my version of Christianity and most of the forms of christianity that I have followed.

 

 

It's the objective laid out by Scripture...

[Someone]

 

It's the objective laid out by Scripture...

Which ones?

[Someone]

Not Matt 7:21-23

Not 1 Peter 1:14-16

[Landlord]

"But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went. Therefore, say to the house of Israel, "Thus says the Lord God, 'It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. And I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst."

 

"For My name's sake I defer my anger,

for the sake of My praise I restrain it for you,

that I may not cut you off.

Behold, I have refined you but not like silver;

I have tried you in the furnace of affliction.

For My own sake, for My own sake I do it,

for how should My name be profaned?

My glory I will not give to another."

 

""I give water in the wilderness, rivers in the desert to give drink to my chosen people, the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.""

 

"Bring My sons from afar, and My daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by My name, and whom I have created for My glory, whom I have formed even whom I have made.""

 

"“All things were created by him and for him.”"

 

"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."

 

"And what one nation on the earth is like Thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem for Himself as a people and to make a name for Himself..."

 

"I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do." - Jesus

 

“Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. ²⁸ Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.”