Homosexuality, Culture, and Theology

[EbylHusker]

 

Throwing an opinion into the 'bigotry' classification by generalizing it seems to be a method to repress what the poster is actually saying.

 

 

Are there bigots out there? You bet. But an opinion that differs from yours doesn't automagically grant the poster bigot status. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

By the logic in your first sentence, any disagreement in expressed opinion would be repression. If you don't agree with the use of bigot in this thread, that's fine and you should probably lay out exactly why it is not bigotry, etc. All you do is weaken your own claim there by calling it repression, though. Look, I'm disagreeing with you (in fact I called your statement ridiculous) - am I repressing you? Of course not.

[EbylHusker]

 

Any of these other reasons why someone is gay doesn't make it any more wrong to be gay in our society and they shouldn't be discriminated against for how they are. However, just to simply make a blanket statement that gay people can't be "fixed" is sort of wrong also.

 

She would be bisexual then, not homosexual. That she has decided, because of her trauma, to only be with women is beside the point. The fact that she has homosexual tendancies and is bisexual can't be "fixed" because there is nothing to "fix." She is what she is.

[Junior]

 

No views are being repressed here. I do not see anyone deleting or censoring posts, or preventing anyone from posting something in some way. As you say, a person has a right to their beliefs, but as soon as you start expressing those beliefs, people have every right to respond and disagree or agree. That is what is going on here. Stop beating the repression drum, nothing like that is going on here.

 

 

Throwing an opinion into the 'bigotry' classification by generalizing it seems to be a method to repress what the poster is actually saying.

 

 

Are there bigots out there? You bet. But an opinion that differs from yours doesn't automagically grant the poster bigot status. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

 

No, an opinion that differs from mine doesn't grant the poster a status as a bigot. But spreading patently false statements about a subset of people, whose way of life the poster seems intent on degrading and marginalizing might.

[Junior]

 

Blitz, your post really isn't relevant. He has the right to say that he believes homosexuality is a sin. And he has a right to believe homosexuality is a sin. And I have a right to tell him he's full of it when he posts factually inaccurate, unsourced information "supporting" his particular beliefs. That's what people are attacking him for. And repressed? Give me a break, no one is preventing him from speaking his mind. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. A person has the right to say something stupid. And I have the right to tell him that he is.

 

 

In this case, anything someone says about homosexuality being a sin has been turned into people generalizing them to be bigots. That's not ok and that is repressing someone's opinion other than yours.

 

Association with bigotry is a big no no in today's society. Everyone knows that being a bigot carries a major negative connotation. And this thread is herding anyone who has a religious belief or opinion that homosexuality is a sin into an enclosure with the word "bigot" labeled on the outside.

 

Once again, I respect people's right to have an opinion that homosexuality is NOT a sin. I'd think that people would respect mine to think the opposite without slapping that label on me. I'd hope that same respect would be across the board for all posters in this thread.

 

 

 

No, it simply isn't. I'm not labeling JJHusker as a bigot, because he's expressed his opinions in a reasonable way.

 

I'm labeling Landlord's post of "statistics" about homosexuals as bigoted, because it is.

[BigRedBuster]

No views are being repressed here. I do not see anyone deleting or censoring posts, or preventing anyone from posting something in some way. As you say, a person has a right to their beliefs, but as soon as you start expressing those beliefs, people have every right to respond and disagree or agree. That is what is going on here. Stop beating the repression drum, nothing like that is going on here.

That is going both ways.

 

I personally find people who have tattoos all over their bodies and piercings all over totally disgusting. Does that make me a bigot towards people like that? Or, am I perfectly normal and should be accepted for my opinion that those people are disgusting? Now, I am not out beating the drum saying we need to outlaw tattoo parlors. Im not saying we should throw people with tattoos in jail or ostracize them from society. It's simply something I find disgusting.

 

People can have the same feelings towards anything in life. I'm sure I can find someone who believes I am disgusting because I own a business, employ people who make less than me and yes...I have fired people and laid people off. So...I'm a disgusting business owner. Hey.....those people have their right to feel that way.

 

Everyone has a right to feel about something however they so choose. That is perfectly fine for them to have those feelings up until they negatively affect the other person in a discriminatory way. It isn't discrimination or bigotry to simply to say gay sex is disgusting or tattoos are disgusting.

 

I'm sure someone in the world would think something I do in the bedroom is disgusting. They are perfectly free to have those feelings and I really don't care until that person tries to outlaw or discriminate against me for what I want to do.

 

I think sometimes these discussions get out of whack because one side or the other just throws up their arms and starts throwing around names/labels and accusations that don't fit with certain situations.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Any of these other reasons why someone is gay doesn't make it any more wrong to be gay in our society and they shouldn't be discriminated against for how they are. However, just to simply make a blanket statement that gay people can't be "fixed" is sort of wrong also.

 

She would be bisexual then, not homosexual. That she has decided, because of her trauma, to only be with women is beside the point. The fact that she has homosexual tendancies and is bisexual can't be "fixed" because there is nothing to "fix." She is what she is.

 

 

 

I'll go by how she described herself. She emphatically claimed she was not bisexual because at that point, she absolutely couldn't stand being with a man and the entire thought repulsed her.

[EbylHusker]

That is going both ways.

 

 

I personally find people who have tattoos all over their bodies and piercings all over totally disgusting. Does that make me a bigot towards people like that? Or, am I perfectly normal and should be accepted for my opinion that those people are disgusting? Now, I am not out beating the drum saying we need to outlaw tattoo parlors. Im not saying we should throw people with tattoos in jail or ostracize them from society. It's simply something I find disgusting.

 

People can have the same feelings towards anything in life. I'm sure I can find someone who believes I am disgusting because I own a business, employ people who make less than me and yes...I have fired people and laid people off. So...I'm a disgusting business owner. Hey.....those people have their right to feel that way.

 

Everyone has a right to feel about something however they so choose. That is perfectly fine for them to have those feelings up until they negatively affect the other person in a discriminatory way. It isn't discrimination or bigotry to simply to say gay sex is disgusting or tattoos are disgusting.

 

I'm sure someone in the world would think something I do in the bedroom is disgusting. They are perfectly free to have those feelings and I really don't care until that person tries to outlaw or discriminate against me for what I want to do.

 

I think sometimes these discussions get out of whack because one side or the other just throws up their arms and starts throwing around names/labels and accusations that don't fit with certain situations.

 

I'm not arguing whether anyone in here is a bigot or not. I have no idea why you quoted my post about how there is no repression here to go on about bigotry. If you want to talk to someone about bigotry in this thread, aim your posts at the f'ers using the word. Thanks.

[EbylHusker]

And you can go with her statement all you want, however there is nothing in her nature that can be "fixed," which was your entire point. To explain, her trauma is supressing part of her baseline sexuality. While you can fix the trauma, you can't "fix" the sexuality beneath it.

[knapplc]

 

Everyone has a right to feel about something however they so choose. That is perfectly fine for them to have those feelings up until they negatively affect the other person in a discriminatory way. It isn't discrimination or bigotry to simply to say gay sex is disgusting or tattoos are disgusting.

 

I'm sure someone in the world would think something I do in the bedroom is disgusting. They are perfectly free to have those feelings and I really don't care until that person tries to outlaw or discriminate against me for what I want to do.

 

I think sometimes these discussions get out of whack because one side or the other just throws up their arms and starts throwing around names/labels and accusations that don't fit with certain situations.

 

 

+1 - but with a couple of reservations.

 

First, I'd totally agree that there are things people do in the bedroom are disgusting. There's a reason no threads exist wherein we all explain our particular fetishes or kinks - it's nobody's business, and I guarantee there's something(s) I do that someone would find objectionable. Those are things it's best we keep to ourselves.

 

And I also totally agree that we all have the right to feel about things however we all choose. You like what you like, I like what I like, and that's the way life works.

 

The bold word there is the only place I'm going to disagree with you. Like gays, hate gays, whatever a person wants to do in the privacy of their own mind is just fine. But when it leaves your skin, either via your mouth or your fingers (typing), that's where I draw the line.

 

I'm free to hate Blacks. I can think the worst things about them, have incorrigible angst and anger regarding them, and that's within my rights inside my own skin. But when I speak , write, or in any way act on that, I'm a bigot, and I'm wrong.

 

The thinking is bad enough. The acting is unsupportable.

[EbylHusker]

Dismissing opinions in opposition of yours with a negative word to label that person is wrong no matter what situation it takes place in.

 

If I had a buzzword with tons of negative connotation seeping from it and I just slapped that word onto your opinion and all those who shared it...I'd be repressing (or oppressing as I try to correct below) your opinion.

 

So let's stop pretending that stuff like this doesn't exist since it is a well known fallacy in logic.

 

 

CORRECTION: I might change the word repression since everyone is piling on top of me for saying it and since I think is mostly associated with a political stance and instead say oppression...social oppression fits well there though it is a wide sociological concept and has multiple definitions...I still think it fits...though I'm not sure they've updated the definition for the interwebs.

 

I don't care what you call it, nothing like that is happening. Once again, you're entirely avoiding the point. If you don't think anything bigoted has been said here, then explain why. THAT is what you should be doing, not arguing about how someone is being repressed, oppressed, or anything else you want to call it.

[Junior]

 

 

 

Throwing an opinion into the 'bigotry' classification by generalizing it seems to be a method to repress what the poster is actually saying.

 

 

Are there bigots out there? You bet. But an opinion that differs from yours doesn't automagically grant the poster bigot status. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

By the logic in your first sentence, any disagreement in expressed opinion would be repression. If you don't agree with the use of bigot in this thread, that's fine and you should probably lay out exactly why it is not bigotry, etc. All you do is weaken your own claim there by calling it repression, though. Look, I'm disagreeing with you (in fact I called your statement ridiculous) - am I repressing you? Of course not.

 

 

Dismissing opinions in opposition of yours with a negative word to label that person is wrong no matter what situation it takes place in.

 

If I had a buzzword with tons of negative connotation seeping from it and I just slapped that word onto your opinion and all those who shared it...I'd be repressing (or oppressing as I try to correct below) your opinion.

 

So let's stop pretending that stuff like this doesn't exist since it is a well known fallacy in logic.

 

 

CORRECTION: I might change the word repression since everyone is piling on top of me for saying it and since I think is mostly associated with a political stance and instead say oppression...social oppression fits well there though it is a wide sociological concept and has multiple definitions...I still think it fits...though I'm not sure they've updated the definition for the interwebs.

 

 

 

Look, my grandmother, may she rest in peace, was a horrible racist. She just was. One time we found an old family picture with a black man in it and she refused to talk about it. To this day, we have no idea who that person was or what relation to our family he was. She would make absurdly racist comments, particularly about blacks. They were "dirty and lazy", and "all they want to do was sit around on food stamps".

 

And I would say "Good lord, Grandma, that's insanely racist and you can't say things like that." But I guess I was supposed to say "well, that's your opinion and it would be wrong of me to tell you that you are behaving like a KKK member."

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Everyone has a right to feel about something however they so choose. That is perfectly fine for them to have those feelings up until they negatively affect the other person in a discriminatory way. It isn't discrimination or bigotry to simply to say gay sex is disgusting or tattoos are disgusting.

 

I'm sure someone in the world would think something I do in the bedroom is disgusting. They are perfectly free to have those feelings and I really don't care until that person tries to outlaw or discriminate against me for what I want to do.

 

I think sometimes these discussions get out of whack because one side or the other just throws up their arms and starts throwing around names/labels and accusations that don't fit with certain situations.

 

 

+1 - but with a couple of reservations.

 

First, I'd totally agree that there are things people do in the bedroom are disgusting. There's a reason no threads exist wherein we all explain our particular fetishes or kinks - it's nobody's business, and I guarantee there's something(s) I do that someone would find objectionable. Those are things it's best we keep to ourselves.

 

And I also totally agree that we all have the right to feel about things however we all choose. You like what you like, I like what I like, and that's the way life works.

 

The bold word there is the only place I'm going to disagree with you. Like gays, hate gays, whatever a person wants to do in the privacy of their own mind is just fine. But when it leaves your skin, either via your mouth or your fingers (typing), that's where I draw the line.

 

I'm free to hate Blacks. I can think the worst things about them, have incorrigible angst and anger regarding them, and that's within my rights inside my own skin. But when I speak , write, or in any way act on that, I'm a bigot, and I'm wrong.

 

The thinking is bad enough. The acting is unsupportable.

 

 

So, do you have freedom of speech only until you might offend someone? When I say the gun carrying jack asses out in Nevada protecting the rancher and his cattle are some of the most idiotic disgusting individuals I have seen in the news lately, that may offend those people if they read that on this board. So, because I might offend them, should I not have the right to say that?

 

(NO....I'm not comparing gay people to idiots who don't like our government)

 

Now, I admire you because you obviously personally have made the decision to not say anything that offends gay people. I try my best at that and I hope I am successful. However, someone else has the right to type on a board that they find gay sex disgusting. You have the right to disagree with them. In my eyes, that's how the world works.

[BigRedBuster]

And you can go with her statement all you want, however there is nothing in her nature that can be "fixed," which was your entire point. To explain, her trauma is supressing part of her baseline sexuality. While you can fix the trauma, you can't "fix" the sexuality beneath it.

 

 

Not really...but, that's OK if you don't understand it.

[EbylHusker]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm the one who understands it. It's OK if you don't. See what I did there? I suppose we can agree to disagree.

[zoogs]

 

The goal is to get to the point where there is no such thing as "normal"

Really? That's kind of odd.

 

Tschu actually said exactly what I was going to. (Not the first time, either!)

 

There was a time when I felt the same way, BRB. But there's statistical normal (the opposite of which is uncommon) and social normal (the opposite of which is weird) -- and these carry vastly different meanings. Social norms are manufactured and exclude those on the outside. There are legitimate and important social norms, but the take-home message for me has been that whomever someone chooses to be intimate with isn't one of them. Whether it's a man and a woman, man and a man, woman and woman, transgendered, ... we're all people in the same way, sharing in the common experience of the same love.

 

Not Voldemort, though. That guy could never understand love and it was the utter ruin of his soul.