Homosexuality, Culture, and Theology

[Junior]

 

Maybe, just maybe, I can do my part to fight for their acceptance and rights so that they can live the same quality of life that I do.

 

Trying to do exactly the same thing from the exact same motivation in my life dude

 

 

 

 

By spreading horribly inaccurate, bigoted misinformation about homosexuals and their lifestyles?

[Landlord]

 

 

Maybe, just maybe, I can do my part to fight for their acceptance and rights so that they can live the same quality of life that I do.

 

Trying to do exactly the same thing from the exact same motivation in my life dude

 

 

 

 

By spreading horribly inaccurate, bigoted misinformation about homosexuals and their lifestyles?

 

 

 

Do you know what bigoted means? I'll throw out a few varying definitions just to approach this at all angles.

 

 

big·ot·ed

ˈbigətid/Submit

adjective

having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others.

I guess I think that I'm right about stuff (like every human ever), but I don't really consider my thoughts superior to anyone else's, and I don't have any problem with anyone else's opinion at all.

big·ot noun \ˈbi-gət\

: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

There's no people that I dislike, nor do I hate or not accept any people groups.

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust or hatred on the basis of a person's ethnicity, evaluative orientation, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

Again, I don't have any fear, distrust or hatred towards any person or people. I've had gay roommates, I've shared beds with gay friends, etc. There's no basis for that.

big·ot·ed [big-uh-tid] Show IPA

adjective

utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

I'm not intolerant of anything or anyone. I'm in support of people doing whatever they want - I vote for and support same-sex marriage - I have no problem with people's actions. Disagreement and intolerance are not the same thing.

Now take a look at those definitions and then look back through this thread and see some of the comments directed back at me and see if they're applicable.

I'm done here.

[EbylHusker]

There's one final thing making this really disturbing. The desire to have sex is a primal, basic instinct. While it's tied into the act of procreation and thus species survival, the instinct that we feel is just to have sex. Now there is also an instinct to have children, but in today's society with longer lives, more than enough people, birth control, etc, we've separated the instincts to have sex and to procreate into two separate things.

 

Because the instinct to have sex is a such a primal thing, you can't separate it from human beings when you judge them. If you are judging the overall act of sex between people of the same gender, then you are judging those people and their sexual orientation. Period. Whethere you want to believe it or not, that's what you're doing.

 

And that's why it bothers people and why I hope someday your views change.

[JJ Husker]

There's one final thing making this really disturbing. The desire to have sex is a primal, basic instinct. While it's tied into the act of procreation and thus species survival, the instinct that we feel is just to have sex. Now there is also an instinct to have children, but in today's society with longer lives, more than enough people, birth control, etc, we've separated the instincts to have sex and to procreate into two separate things.

 

Because the instinct to have sex is a such a primal thing, you can't separate it from human beings when you judge them. If you are judging the overall act of sex between people of the same gender, then you are judging those people and their sexual orientation. Period. Whethere you want to believe it or not, that's what you're doing.

 

And that's why it bothers people and why I hope someday your views change.

Do you have any sources to cite for the bolded?

 

Who has separated instincts? How has our species separated instincts?

 

Is there a study or any proof, other than your opinion, that says judging the act of sex is the same as judging people?

[knapplc]

I'd just like to know if Landlord has ever brought that list up there to his gay friends and had a real, honest, loving, open conversation about it. I wonder how that went.

I talked to one of the guys in my coffee hooligan group this morning about this. He confirms there's a higher instance of drug use amongst gays, and says it's likely due to the fact that until recently the culture in America was so firmly against them that there was a ton of despair in the gay community. He basically said a lot of that was self-medication to deal with shaming. Made a lot of sense.

Couldn't confirm most any other part of Landlord's List of Very Bad Things. He laughed at the "it does devastating things to the body" thing, saying if it did, he's never experienced it. He's in his 60s and he's been "in the scene" for like 40 years, and he hasn't had any issues yet. He also laughed at the "promiscuity & homosexual behavior go hand in hand." He said he's seen people in relationships for dozens of years and he's seen players, and it all depends on the person, not the preference. "Gay guys" don't have a lot of sex, "PEOPLE" have a lot of sex.

---

 

 

Moving on, what don't I adhere to in the Bible?

 

 

 

This is by no means a comprehensive list, but in the past few months you've:

 

Violated the Ninth Commandment - Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor

Violated the Seventh Commandment - Thou shalt not commit adultery

 

This was in the Fat Toad status update and thread which you started and perpetuated, including this gem: "I say we get another HB member to take her out. You know, wine and dine her a little. Show her a good time. Then said person gives us updated throughout the night on how things are going. Then when the night is winding down we inform her that Landlord "don't take no sh#t" and berate her."

 

To which you replied, "Totally cool with this but I need to pick the member because otherwise I am scared that whoever does it will do so under the pretense of sticking it to her as you described, but will actually end up sticking it to her the naughty way and rubbing my face in it thus casting me into eternal huskerboard shame and sadness."

 

You weren't concerned with the girl, there wasn't any kind of love shown for her, just selfish rage and angst and a desire for vengeance. Turn the other cheek? Heck no, let's double down on an already huge mistake of a Status Update and post a whole thread about it

 

Violated the Eighth Commandment - Thou shalt not steal

 

This one comes from the "I got into the game without a ticket" thread, where you openly gloat about going to a Husker game for free.

 

I don't know how this happened, but I just wanted to gloat a little. I was trying to work my way around the stadium to the North side around 5:15 or so, and before I knew it I was faced with the option of going through the East stadium concourse or trying to exit through a gate on the East/South corner, so I went through East stadium and realized I was in without a ticket, so there I stayed in the student section.

 

#YOLO

 

I'm not sure there's a commandment against "YOLO" but there probably should be. We'll let that one pass for the moment.

 

Violated the Sixth Commandment - Thou shalt not kill

 

From another status update, this time about the kid killed by the cop:

 

Landlord of Memorial Stadium
WHo wants to take a road trip to go murder this sumbitch
May 02 2014 04:19 PM

 

 

I could go on and on. There's a few other commandments I didn't touch on, I didn't mention the whole "love thy neighbor as thyself" mantra, nor did I get into the self-aggrandizing bumps for your various art projects, but I think there's enough here. Let's not pretend you adhere to "the Bible." You, like every other Christian, follow what's convenient when it's convenient, and cloak yourself in holiness and the right to denounce when that's convenient. *

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Source: I was a Christian for 40 years. Still know plenty today. Saw it in myself, see it in others to this day.

[killer cacti]

I'm pretty discouraged with our society after reading this thread.

 

That's all I got to say about that.

[NUance]

 

There's one final thing making this really disturbing. The desire to have sex is a primal, basic instinct. While it's tied into the act of procreation and thus species survival, the instinct that we feel is just to have sex. Now there is also an instinct to have children, but in today's society with longer lives, more than enough people, birth control, etc, we've separated the instincts to have sex and to procreate into two separate things.

 

Because the instinct to have sex is a such a primal thing, you can't separate it from human beings when you judge them. If you are judging the overall act of sex between people of the same gender, then you are judging those people and their sexual orientation. Period. Whethere you want to believe it or not, that's what you're doing.

 

And that's why it bothers people and why I hope someday your views change.

Do you have any sources to cite for the bolded?

 

Who has separated instincts? How has our species separated instincts?

 

Is there a study or any proof, other than your opinion, that says judging the act of sex is the same as judging people?

 

 

If I understand JJ's and LLoMS's position correctly, it's love the sinner, not the sin. But Ebyl and others in this thread seem to insist that if someone does not approve of homosexuality then they are bigoted and hate gays. Or maybe that's not what you're implying by this, Ebyl? And others?

[knapplc]

Now take a look at those definitions and then look back through this thread and see some of the comments directed back at me and see if they're applicable.

 

 

Wait - what? You're saying YOU are the victim of bigotry in this thread?

 

Was Rosa Parks a bigot because she protested segregation? Was Lilly Ledbetter a bigot because she protested against pay inequality? Was MLK a bigot for protesting rampant discrimination in the South? Was LBJ a bigot for instituting the Civil Rights Acts, condemning bigotry across the country?

 

You don't get to claim you're a victim when you're the one doing the discriminating. Doesn't work that way.

[NUance]

I'm pretty discouraged with our society after reading this thread.

 

That's all I got to say about that.

 

If you want to feel *really* bad about society just go read ShaggyBevo for about 20 minutes. The civility and exchange of ideas here on HB is worlds better than that place. And better than most other message boards as well. I think.

[tschu]

If I understand JJ's and LLoMS's position correctly, it's love the sinner, not the sin. But Ebyl and others in this thread seem to insist that if someone does not approve of homosexuality then they are bigoted and hate gays. Or maybe that's not what you're implying by this, Ebyl? And others?

 

Calling it a sin implies that it is wrong and breeds intolerance and hatred. There is nothing wrong about homosexuality.

[knapplc]

 

 

There's one final thing making this really disturbing. The desire to have sex is a primal, basic instinct. While it's tied into the act of procreation and thus species survival, the instinct that we feel is just to have sex. Now there is also an instinct to have children, but in today's society with longer lives, more than enough people, birth control, etc, we've separated the instincts to have sex and to procreate into two separate things.

 

Because the instinct to have sex is a such a primal thing, you can't separate it from human beings when you judge them. If you are judging the overall act of sex between people of the same gender, then you are judging those people and their sexual orientation. Period. Whethere you want to believe it or not, that's what you're doing.

 

And that's why it bothers people and why I hope someday your views change.

Do you have any sources to cite for the bolded?

 

Who has separated instincts? How has our species separated instincts?

 

Is there a study or any proof, other than your opinion, that says judging the act of sex is the same as judging people?

 

 

If I understand JJ's and LLoMS's position correctly, it's love the sinner, not the sin. But Ebyl and others in this thread seem to insist that if someone does not approve of homosexuality then they are bigoted and hate gays. Or maybe that's not what you're implying by this, Ebyl? And others?

 

 

The greatest problem in this thread is that we're not just denouncing "sin," we're denouncing a very specific sin. We're spending an awful lot of time & energy trying to prove that something is a sin (it isn't), and that it's OK to focus on that one thing as much as we are here (it isn't).

 

If this thread were simply saying, "Hey, there's a lot of sin out there and we as Christians should work on that" there'd be a ton less blowback. But the hypocrisy of self-identified sinners going three pages deep defending calling someone else sinful is more than many of us can bear, and you have this thread.

 

That's the most hilarious thing here - it's not about "sin." It's about homosexuality, and the Pope himself said it's time to stop harping on that one thing.

 

If Christians want to do something about "sin" in this world (or this country, as we're pretty much all Americans) they can work on the Seventh Commandment, right inside the walls of their own churches, where divorce is rampant.

[killer cacti]

 

[NUance]

The greatest problem in this thread is that we're not just denouncing "sin," we're denouncing a very specific sin. We're spending an awful lot of time & energy trying to prove that something is a sin (it isn't), and that it's OK to focus on that one thing as much as we are here (it isn't).

 

If this thread were simply saying, "Hey, there's a lot of sin out there and we as Christians should work on that" there'd be a ton less blowback. But the hypocrisy of self-identified sinners going three pages deep defending calling someone else sinful is more than many of us can bear, and you have this thread.

 

That's the most hilarious thing here - it's not about "sin." It's about homosexuality, and the Pope himself said it's time to stop harping on that one thing.

 

If Christians want to do something about "sin" in this world (or this country, as we're pretty much all Americans) they can work on the Seventh Commandment, right inside the walls of their own churches, where divorce is rampant.

Yes, it very true that there's a LOT of sin in the world. And most Christians--no, all Christians--would do well to cut sin out of their lives. (Me included. lol)

[NUance]

 

If I understand JJ's and LLoMS's position correctly, it's love the sinner, not the sin. But Ebyl and others in this thread seem to insist that if someone does not approve of homosexuality then they are bigoted and hate gays. Or maybe that's not what you're implying by this, Ebyl? And others?

Calling it a sin implies that it is wrong and breeds intolerance and hatred. There is nothing wrong about homosexuality.

 

And that, sir, is the crux of the debate.

[Ulty]

 

I'd just like to know if Landlord has ever brought that list up there to his gay friends and had a real, honest, loving, open conversation about it. I wonder how that went.

 

I talked to one of the guys in my coffee hooligan group this morning about this. He confirms there's a higher instance of drug use amongst gays, and says it's likely due to the fact that until recently the culture in America was so firmly against them that there was a ton of despair in the gay community. He basically said a lot of that was self-medication to deal with shaming. Made a lot of sense.

 

Couldn't confirm most any other part of Landlord's List of Very Bad Things. He laughed at the "it does devastating things to the body" thing, saying if it did, he's never experienced it. He's in his 60s and he's been "in the scene" for like 40 years, and he hasn't had any issues yet. He also laughed at the "promiscuity & homosexual behavior go hand in hand." He said he's seen people in relationships for dozens of years and he's seen players, and it all depends on the person, not the preference. "Gay guys" don't have a lot of sex, "PEOPLE" have a lot of sex.

 

---

 

 

 

Moving on, what don't I adhere to in the Bible?

 

 

 

This is by no means a comprehensive list, but in the past few months you've:

 

Violated the Ninth Commandment - Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor

Violated the Seventh Commandment - Thou shalt not commit adultery

 

This was in the Fat Toad status update and thread which you started and perpetuated, including this gem: "I say we get another HB member to take her out. You know, wine and dine her a little. Show her a good time. Then said person gives us updated throughout the night on how things are going. Then when the night is winding down we inform her that Landlord "don't take no sh#t" and berate her."

 

To which you replied, "Totally cool with this but I need to pick the member because otherwise I am scared that whoever does it will do so under the pretense of sticking it to her as you described, but will actually end up sticking it to her the naughty way and rubbing my face in it thus casting me into eternal huskerboard shame and sadness."

 

You weren't concerned with the girl, there wasn't any kind of love shown for her, just selfish rage and angst and a desire for vengeance. Turn the other cheek? Heck no, let's double down on an already huge mistake of a Status Update and post a whole thread about it

 

Violated the Eighth Commandment - Thou shalt not steal

 

This one comes from the "I got into the game without a ticket" thread, where you openly gloat about going to a Husker game for free.

 

I don't know how this happened, but I just wanted to gloat a little. I was trying to work my way around the stadium to the North side around 5:15 or so, and before I knew it I was faced with the option of going through the East stadium concourse or trying to exit through a gate on the East/South corner, so I went through East stadium and realized I was in without a ticket, so there I stayed in the student section.

 

#YOLO

 

I'm not sure there's a commandment against "YOLO" but there probably should be. We'll let that one pass for the moment.

 

Violated the Sixth Commandment - Thou shalt not kill

 

From another status update, this time about the kid killed by the cop:

 

Landlord of Memorial Stadium

WHo wants to take a road trip to go murder this sumbitch

May 02 2014 04:19 PM

 

 

I could go on and on. There's a few other commandments I didn't touch on, I didn't mention the whole "love thy neighbor as thyself" mantra, nor did I get into the self-aggrandizing bumps for your various art projects, but I think there's enough here. Let's not pretend you adhere to "the Bible." You, like every other Christian, follow what's convenient when it's convenient, and cloak yourself in holiness and the right to denounce when that's convenient. *

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Source: I was a Christian for 40 years. Still know plenty today. Saw it in myself, see it in others to this day.

 

 

There aren't enough negative points for me to award to this post. It is the single dumbest post I have ever seen on this board EVER. Including my dumb posts. If ever there was an EXACT example for Ad Hominem attack...it's what you said right here. Go after the person instead of the issue.

 

No offense, meant to you as a person, but dude, you just swept all your argument with Landlord right out the window by going after him.

 

And oddly enough, it's Landlord that has remained civil and on point this entire time. Gotta give him props for not letting it get personal.

 

 

Knapplc and Tschu just brilliantly tore apart some of the most bigoted and hypocritical statements ever made on this baord, and they used evidence and logic to do so. Landlord attempted to remain polite, but nothing about that mess up there was civil.