knapplc Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 So, if simply asking a Muslim to condemn terrorism is Islamophobic I don't think it is Islamophobic. I think it's simple human responsibility. But segregating the denunciation of Muslims from non-Muslims misses the mark. HUMANS should denounce terrorism, and the overwhelming world response, from every corner of the globe, every race & religion, is condemnation. I thought the op-ed piece was raking muck that wasn't there. So conversely, we should expect Christians to consistently condemn the acts of Christian extremists when they happen, otherwise we can go ahead and assume that all Christians are in support of said Christian extremists? That's the opposite of what I wrote. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 So, if simply asking a Muslim to condemn terrorism is Islamophobic I don't think it is Islamophobic. I think it's simple human responsibility. But segregating the denunciation of Muslims from non-Muslims misses the mark. HUMANS should denounce terrorism, and the overwhelming world response, from every corner of the globe, every race & religion, is condemnation. I thought the op-ed piece was raking muck that wasn't there. So conversely, we should expect Christians to consistently condemn the acts of Christian extremists when they happen, otherwise we can go ahead and assume that all Christians are in support of said Christian extremists? For which I've seen many times in the media. AND, that's not what he said. Link to comment
Dr. Mantis Toboggan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The old testament isn't followed by Christians? I have only been out of the faith for a little over a year now. That's news to me. I'm going to let the Christians on this board answer this more fully, but surely you were taught about the Covenants God entered into with Israel throughout the Old Testament, and how the humans kept breaking those Covenants because they were sinful and incapable of keeping them, so God sent Jesus to be the ultimate Covenant, the last Covenant, between God & Man... right? Yes, that is in the good book. But, just going off of some conservative christians, they tend to throw out scripture from the old testament when it comes to abortion or homosexuality but neglect to mention all of the bad stuff in the bible. Really, if more christians started acting more like Christ I might consider giving the religion another go at it. Don't you think it's possible to be Christian in the view that you believe it should be? Do you have to relate to those other people who claim to be Christian? Shouldn't someone who is considering being a Christian simply ask "Is this what Christ asked me to do" and read Christ's teachings to find out? To be a Christian, you don't have to follow what humans are doing while trying to act like a Christian. Well, with me it goes deeper than just that. I have a hard time believing in the virgin birth, the resurrection, and all of the other magical stuff. I just simply believe that if you are a good person then it doesn't matter what you believe in. This is my whole take on religion as a whole... People thrive on believing that there is life after death, and without that belief people would panic. People become so obsessed with death that they think that they must devote their whole life to that religion and follow every word in the book they follow so they can have a wonderful afterlife. Thus why you see crazies in every religion, and right now the Muslim religion is getting the most attention. If people would actually stop, and just be good to others instead of worrying about pleasing their god then does it really matter what you believe in? If you are a good person, and if there is a heaven why wouldn't you get through those pearly gates regardless of what you believe in? In most books it states that God is a jealous God, that is a human flaw, why would God have such a horrible flaw as jealousy? that would make god not perfect. So, instead of worrying about what is going to happen when you die and which god to follow, why not just enjoy this trip we call life, because it is a short life and I am not going to spend my short days on this planet worrying about making an all powerful being jealous who may or may not be there. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Those views are fine, but that's a whole 'nuther conversation than the one we're having here. It also seems to be the same conversation anything about religion devolves into, much like every conversation about football from 2010 - 2013 devolved into a debate over Taylor Martinez as a QB. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 The old testament isn't followed by Christians? I have only been out of the faith for a little over a year now. That's news to me. I'm going to let the Christians on this board answer this more fully, but surely you were taught about the Covenants God entered into with Israel throughout the Old Testament, and how the humans kept breaking those Covenants because they were sinful and incapable of keeping them, so God sent Jesus to be the ultimate Covenant, the last Covenant, between God & Man... right? Yes, that is in the good book. But, just going off of some conservative christians, they tend to throw out scripture from the old testament when it comes to abortion or homosexuality but neglect to mention all of the bad stuff in the bible. Really, if more christians started acting more like Christ I might consider giving the religion another go at it. Don't you think it's possible to be Christian in the view that you believe it should be? Do you have to relate to those other people who claim to be Christian? Shouldn't someone who is considering being a Christian simply ask "Is this what Christ asked me to do" and read Christ's teachings to find out? To be a Christian, you don't have to follow what humans are doing while trying to act like a Christian. Well, with me it goes deeper than just that. I have a hard time believing in the virgin birth, the resurrection, and all of the other magical stuff. I just simply believe that if you are a good person then it doesn't matter what you believe in. This is my whole take on religion as a whole... People thrive on believing that there is life after death, and without that belief people would panic. People become so obsessed with death that they think that they must devote their whole life to that religion and follow every word in the book they follow so they can have a wonderful afterlife. Thus why you see crazies in every religion, and right now the Muslim religion is getting the most attention. If people would actually stop, and just be good to others instead of worrying about pleasing their god then does it really matter what you believe in? If you are a good person, and if there is a heaven why wouldn't you get through those pearly gates regardless of what you believe in? In most books it states that God is a jealous God, that is a human flaw, why would God have such a horrible flaw as jealousy? that would make god not perfect. So, instead of worrying about what is going to happen when you die and which god to follow, why not just enjoy this trip we call life, because it is a short life and I am not going to spend my short days on this planet worrying about making an all powerful being jealous who may or may not be there. I'm fine with those views. Those aren't my views and I'm not a Christian based on what you spelled out there but that's fine. My questions were simply based on your comments above. I'll leave this part of the conversation at that. I would prefer to get back to discussing the actual article and the views pointed out in that article. Link to comment
Dr. Mantis Toboggan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 My bad, didn't mean to go off topic. Link to comment
tschu Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Christians: Christ followers. Read his teachings and this is what most Christians follow and believe. Stop looking at the political version (the Moral Majority type on the right or the Liberal Religious ones on the left - both use faith as a political tool). Christ's teachings were about compassion, love, and faith and not about jihad Maybe ~2000 years ago. Now Christ's teachings are about fiscal responsibility at the expense of social welfare, the poor pulling themselves up by bootstraps, privatization of education, exclusion of other religions, and making sure that big business gets their necessary earmarks. God dammit. +1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Have you actually read the bible? Or do you just listen to some guy on sundays? Have you? Because the below is probably the most ignorant question I've ever heard someone that used to be in the faith ask: The old testament isn't followed by Christians? I have only been out of the faith for a little over a year now. That's news to me. You claim that Christianity is a violent religion based off of OT quotations without context. Erroneously, I might add. No, the Old Testament is not "followed" by Christians, so news for you! Studied? Yes. Learned from? Yes. Inspired? Yes. Followed? No. That is what Jesus is for. Jesus was non-violent. He was tenaciously peaceful. He was the one who taught his followers peaceful but opposing methods of combatting injustice (turning the other cheek wasn't just to get hit again, but to make the person who struck you strike you again with the palm of his hand rather than the back of it, which was seen as a statement of equality in that time, as one example.) Jesus is who we follow. Further, Yes, that is in the good book. But, just going off of some conservative christians, they tend to throw out scripture from the old testament when it comes to abortion or homosexuality but neglect to mention all of the bad stuff in the bible. Really, if more christians started acting more like Christ I might consider giving the religion another go at it. Well, with me it goes deeper than just that. I have a hard time believing in the virgin birth, the resurrection, and all of the other magical stuff. I just simply believe that if you are a good person then it doesn't matter what you believe in. You are allllll kinds of inconsistent here, friend. First you make a few posts about how you left Christianity because of the people (which is sad, but also poor logic, because people don't define Christianity and every people group are hypocrites - that's not exclusive to Christianity), and then you say if people actually acted like Christ you might give it another shot, but then you backtrack and say you don't believe it because of all the magic fairy tale stuff. Which is it? If it's the former, my response would be to let Christ represent Himself and stop attaching humans to your image of God, because we are helplessly out of our depths. If it's the latter, I would say stop spewing b.s. about what Christianity actually teaches and also stop picking one ugly subsection of "Christian" followers as the representative whole. Maybe ~2000 years ago. Now Christ's teachings are about fiscal responsibility at the expense of social welfare, the poor pulling themselves up by bootstraps, privatization of education, exclusion of other religions, and making sure that big business gets their necessary earmarks. See above. People have been perverting Christ's teaching since the very start, so if Christianity means in 2015 what misguided masses twist it to means, then 2000 years ago it still meant what the misguided masses decided. Or, if 2000 years ago Christ taught peace and justice, then He still does today. I know I strive to follow Jesus, yet I don't follow a single one of the things you just listed, and living south of the Mason-Dixon line, in the heart of the Bible belt for the last 7 months, I can point to a whole bunch of others that reject those things as well. 4 Link to comment
Abdullah the Butcher Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpobTX4u24k Link to comment
knapplc Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Let's leave the idiot extremist opinion out of the conversation. Lemon's a moron. Link to comment
Dr. Mantis Toboggan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Have you actually read the bible? Or do you just listen to some guy on sundays? Have you? Because the below is probably the most ignorant question I've ever heard someone that used to be in the faith ask: The old testament isn't followed by Christians? I have only been out of the faith for a little over a year now. That's news to me. You claim that Christianity is a violent religion based off of OT quotations without context. Erroneously, I might add. No, the Old Testament is not "followed" by Christians, so news for you! Studied? Yes. Learned from? Yes. Inspired? Yes. Followed? No. That is what Jesus is for. Jesus was non-violent. He was tenaciously peaceful. He was the one who taught his followers peaceful but opposing methods of combatting injustice (turning the other cheek wasn't just to get hit again, but to make the person who struck you strike you again with the palm of his hand rather than the back of it, which was seen as a statement of equality in that time, as one example.) Jesus is who we follow. Further, Yes, that is in the good book. But, just going off of some conservative christians, they tend to throw out scripture from the old testament when it comes to abortion or homosexuality but neglect to mention all of the bad stuff in the bible. Really, if more christians started acting more like Christ I might consider giving the religion another go at it. Well, with me it goes deeper than just that. I have a hard time believing in the virgin birth, the resurrection, and all of the other magical stuff. I just simply believe that if you are a good person then it doesn't matter what you believe in. You are allllll kinds of inconsistent here, friend. First you make a few posts about how you left Christianity because of the people (which is sad, but also poor logic, because people don't define Christianity and every people group are hypocrites - that's not exclusive to Christianity), and then you say if people actually acted like Christ you might give it another shot, but then you backtrack and say you don't believe it because of all the magic fairy tale stuff. Which is it? If it's the former, my response would be to let Christ represent Himself and stop attaching humans to your image of God, because we are helplessly out of our depths. If it's the latter, I would say stop spewing b.s. about what Christianity actually teaches and also stop picking one ugly subsection of "Christian" followers as the representative whole. Maybe ~2000 years ago. Now Christ's teachings are about fiscal responsibility at the expense of social welfare, the poor pulling themselves up by bootstraps, privatization of education, exclusion of other religions, and making sure that big business gets their necessary earmarks. See above. People have been perverting Christ's teaching since the very start, so if Christianity means in 2015 what misguided masses twist it to means, then 2000 years ago it still meant what the misguided masses decided. Or, if 2000 years ago Christ taught peace and justice, then He still does today. I know I strive to follow Jesus, yet I don't follow a single one of the things you just listed, and living south of the Mason-Dixon line, in the heart of the Bible belt for the last 7 months, I can point to a whole bunch of others that reject those things as well. I don't know what is worst. The incoherent trash you just spewed or someone actually +1 what you said. Whatever dude, get off your soap box. Your faith is far from perfect my friend. 2 Link to comment
Landlord Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't know what is worst. The incoherent trash you just spewed or someone actually +1 what you said. Whatever dude, get off your soap box. Your faith is far from perfect my friend. I'd like to make it coherent for you. I'm sorry for coming across poorly - I think your reasoning for yourself is inconsistent and am curious what actually lies at the heart of it. Link to comment
NUpolo8 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I do love debating with you knapp. I always learn something new. I'm like an onion. Round, layered and best when translucent? Link to comment
Abdullah the Butcher Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I do love debating with you knapp. I always learn something new. I'm like an onion. Round, layered and best when translucent? You forgot the tear inducing odor. 1 Link to comment
NUpolo8 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I do love debating with you knapp. I always learn something new. I'm like an onion. Round, layered and best when translucent? You forgot the tear inducing odor. No one forgets that, kimosabe. Link to comment
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