I Don't Care About Riley's "System" - It will never work!

[ajt1970]

So, as I'm reading correctly from this thread, OP essentially wants us to go back to 1995 because throwing the football is "wussy."

 

Give me a break. There are several things in OP that make the argument drivel, but one of the most egregious is the idea that outstanding coaches find ways to win regardless of their circumstances. Many of the "outstanding" or even very successful coaches in division one football right now had average teams at lower tier schools. Saban is one of them. You're pumping poison into other posters here by suggesting great coaches have been great forever and that's fundamentally false.

 

And those "sissy" offenses from the coasts have been working our defenses raw for years. Does that still make them sissy? Pretty sure most of those athletes would've destroyed you and most of this board in our prime so don't sit there and spout off about how they're somehow lesser football players because they don't meet some vision in your mind.

 

I actually agree that I think Nebraska should be more of a run-based program. And if you want to argue a different type of scheme is better for Nebraska that's fine, but you can do better than that.

 

Enhance89 -

 

I will clarify again....I said my PREFERENCE is 80/20 (or higher to run the ball) because i love the running game. I did NOT say that my OPINION of passing the ball to be wussy football as the REASON why NU needs to be a running team. There are many reasons why i feel Nebraska's best chance to return to NATIONAL prominence is to run the ball (and a solid defense and special teams), namely weather conditions, recruiting, the walk on program, identity, tradition, etc.

 

Coaches - Saban, Meyer, Devaney, Osborne, they figured it out and WON in the middle and latter stages of their careers. Sure, guys like Saban had a few rough years in the beginning of their head coaching careers, but later on they figured things out and rolled. Guys like Osborne and Meyer (just to name a few) never really had any bad years. My whole point being, Riley, In the last 20 years, has never figured it out. He's never won ANYTHING substantial. I mean, we're talking about a guy who just last year went 5-7 with HIS PLAYERS and his own "SYSTEM". He's been a head coach for a couple decades and been in coaching overall for close to 40 years. That is plenty of time to figure out how to WIN at the highest level. Now if, let's say, he had a few bad years in the beginning but then developed a solid winning career at Oregon State after that, fine. But he hasn't. Not even close. He's been mediocre his entire coaching career, college and NFL.

 

Schemes - sure, we can talk that. Start with inside zone and outside zone blocking, add in Power runs with pulling linemen, traps, isos, counters, options, etc. I could talk all day on running plays. You can have the schemes but you also need to get the horses, which NU could do.

 

I will say this.....in re-watching the Wisconsin game again earlier, it does look like Riley's TRYING to incorporate more running schemes/plays into his arsenal and also allowing Armstrong to run more and even some of the QB-designed runs looked good.

[74Hunter]

I wonder what Kansas thought about Baylors will when they went up 40+ points on them in the first half? Wussies? Successfully throwing the ball benefits the run game and vice versa. This isn't rocket science. I think it's safe to say Baylor imposed their will all over Kansas' face. And they got a little in their belly button, and some in their eye. And there was even enough will that some got in their hair too.

Sounds like the perfect end to a classy date.

[Jim Hammer]

It's not the system, its the talent within that system.

[VectorVictor]

You can pass the ball half the time and win half the time, Husker Fan.

 

Fixed for accuracy.

[VectorVictor]

 

I wonder what Kansas thought about Baylors will when they went up 40+ points on them in the first half? Wussies? Successfully throwing the ball benefits the run game and vice versa. This isn't rocket science. I think it's safe to say Baylor imposed their will all over Kansas' face. And they got a little in their belly button, and some in their eye. And there was even enough will that some got in their hair too.

Sounds like the perfect end to a classy date.

 

 

Those Southern Baptists and their fetishes...

[neepster]

"Three things can happen when you pass and two of them are bad" -Tom Osborne

 

😀

[Kiyoat Husker]

Maybe OK St. could've won without the 3 PICKS. Name an Air Raid squad that's won it all. Oklahoma in 2000, maybe, but as mentioned, they won with defense more than anything. Besides, do you honestly think we're going to get back throwing half the time? We've TRIED this before, and it led to 2 losing seasons. Why is this going to be any different?

 

I also never said ISU ran all over them. OSU, a passing squad, was upset by a mediocre ISU team in Jack Trice.

 

Ok, so you basically asked 3 questions, and followed it up with a statement that needs more clarification.

 

1. No, I don't think an Air Raid offense has won it all, but is that your only definition of a successful offense? I know USC has won with a WCO. Several times.

 

2. Yes, I think we might pass half the time if our passing game is our strength that year. Riley has had seasons in which he has passed more or less, based on personnel.

 

Do you think that throwing it half the time is a bad thing? I guess I would call that balance. Half of the national champions in the last 15 years have won the game passing half or more than half the time:

 

2000 Oklahoma 39/36

2001 Miami 35/26

2004 USC 35/28

2005 Texas 40/36

2006 Florida 37/43

2011 Alabama 34/35

2013 Florida State 35/31

 

3. No, we haven't tried Riley's system before. We tried Callahan's. despite both being Pro Style/WCO, there were not as many similarities as you might think. Besides, a lot of programs run pro-style offenses. Like Michigan and Michigan State, for example.

 

4. you said that OSU, a passing squad, got beat by a Mediocre ISU team. What you left out was that ISU was also a passing squad, which is the whole point of this thread. Tom Herman was ISU's OC at the time. If you are not familiar with him, google him. His offenses are very pass-oriented and productive.

 

Any other questions I can answer for you?

[Kiyoat Husker]

"Three things can happen when you pass and two of them are bad" -Tom Osborne

 

 

 

That's actually a quote from the early 60's credited to both Darrel Royal and Woody Hayes. I'm sure TO has said it, though.

[Guy Chamberlin]

"Three things can happen when you pass and two of them are bad" -Tom Osborne

 

 

 

You can run the ball for a gain, run the ball for no gain, run the ball for a loss, or run the ball and fumble.

 

And none of them will stop the clock when you need it.

 

It's a cute saying, but it think it was retired about 20 years ago.

[Jeremy]

 

Maybe OK St. could've won without the 3 PICKS. Name an Air Raid squad that's won it all. Oklahoma in 2000, maybe, but as mentioned, they won with defense more than anything. Besides, do you honestly think we're going to get back throwing half the time? We've TRIED this before, and it led to 2 losing seasons. Why is this going to be any different?

 

I also never said ISU ran all over them. OSU, a passing squad, was upset by a mediocre ISU team in Jack Trice.

 

Ok, so you basically asked 3 questions, and followed it up with a statement that needs more clarification.

 

1. No, I don't think an Air Raid offense has won it all, but is that your only definition of a successful offense? I know USC has won with a WCO. Several times.

 

2. Yes, I think we might pass half the time if our passing game is our strength that year. Riley has had seasons in which he has passed more or less, based on personnel.

 

Do you think that throwing it half the time is a bad thing? I guess I would call that balance. Half of the national champions in the last 15 years have won the game passing half or more than half the time:

 

2000 Oklahoma 39/36

2001 Miami 35/26

2004 USC 35/28

2005 Texas 40/36

2006 Florida 37/43

2011 Alabama 34/35

2013 Florida State 35/31

 

3. No, we haven't tried Riley's system before. We tried Callahan's. despite both being Pro Style/WCO, there were not as many similarities as you might think. Besides, a lot of programs run pro-style offenses. Like Michigan and Michigan State, for example.

 

4. you said that OSU, a passing squad, got beat by a Mediocre ISU team. What you left out was that ISU was also a passing squad, which is the whole point of this thread. Tom Herman was ISU's OC at the time. If you are not familiar with him, google him. His offenses are very pass-oriented and productive.

 

Any other questions I can answer for you?

 

How much stock would you put in the statement 'Nebraska can't be like everyone else.'? We aren't going to win enough battles vs the sandy beaches, warm weather, and party schools for Elite 11 QB's, receivers, and pass blocking OL.

 

For instance, there's the old saying that coaches at USC, Miami, and Alabama drive past more D1 recruits on the way to work than UNL coaches see in a whole year. Probably some truth to that. I just don't see how Riley is going to beat out Harbaugh, Sumlin, Mcelwain, Fisher, Mora, Miles, etc, for the top talent he would need to win a B1G title.

 

You made the point that Riley's offense is different than Callahan's. A fair point. But then you bring up Tom Herman, and all the success he has with his offense. So, it seems to me you'd rather have Herman than Riley/Langsdorf, because their offense is entirely different, too, right?

[Kiyoat Husker]

How much stock would you put in the statement 'Nebraska can't be like everyone else.'? We aren't going to win enough battles vs the sandy beaches, warm weather, and party schools for Elite 11 QB's, receivers, and pass blocking OL.

For instance, there's the old saying that coaches at USC, Miami, and Alabama drive past more D1 recruits on the way to work than UNL coaches see in a whole year. Probably some truth to that. I just don't see how Riley is going to beat out Harbaugh, Sumlin, Mcelwain, Fisher, Mora, Miles, etc, for the top talent he would need to win a B1G title.

You made the point that Riley's offense is different than Callahan's. A fair point. But then you bring up Tom Herman, and all the success he has with his offense. So, it seems to me you'd rather have Herman than Riley/Langsdorf, because their offense is entirely different, too, right?

 

So the OP stated that HCMR's "system" will never work at Nebraska because:

1. he likes power running better

2. passing is wussy, and can't win

3. Riley should be able to win right away, regardless of the talent on the current roster.

4. We will never be able to recruit the type of athletes he needs.

I am guessing you agree with most of this, despite the fact that 3&4 contradict each other.

I'm pretty sure MR walks by more offensive line talent on the way to work than many of the coaches you mentioned. Most successful power running teams from northern teams still have skill position players from Cal/Texas/Florida/Georgia/Louisiana. I know TO did. Do you think offensive linemen from the midwest are incapable of pass-blocking? Besides, while getting an elite 11 QB would be great, I would settle for a 3-star or 4-star that has been hand-selected by Riley to run his offense. Zac Taylor was a pretty good JUCO QB for us in a pro-style. Pretty sure we can land the talent we need to be competitive.

Would I rather have Tom Herman? I don't know. Would you rather have Nick Saban? since we're throwing out random coaches that aren't here.

[Scratchtown]

You know what really helps the running game?

 

A good defense.

Well ya because you won't score as many points....typically. in games where the defense is actual important toward winning.

[Undone]

I just don't see how Riley is going to beat out Harbaugh, Sumlin, Mcelwain, Fisher, Mora, Miles, etc, for the top talent he would need to win a B1G title.

 

Considering that only one of those coaches on your list actually coaches a team in the B1G, I think the answer is that he'll only have to beat out one of them.

[Jeremy]

 

How much stock would you put in the statement 'Nebraska can't be like everyone else.'? We aren't going to win enough battles vs the sandy beaches, warm weather, and party schools for Elite 11 QB's, receivers, and pass blocking OL.

For instance, there's the old saying that coaches at USC, Miami, and Alabama drive past more D1 recruits on the way to work than UNL coaches see in a whole year. Probably some truth to that. I just don't see how Riley is going to beat out Harbaugh, Sumlin, Mcelwain, Fisher, Mora, Miles, etc, for the top talent he would need to win a B1G title.

You made the point that Riley's offense is different than Callahan's. A fair point. But then you bring up Tom Herman, and all the success he has with his offense. So, it seems to me you'd rather have Herman than Riley/Langsdorf, because their offense is entirely different, too, right?

 

So the OP stated that HCMR's "system" will never work at Nebraska because:

1. he likes power running better

2. passing is wussy, and can't win

3. Riley should be able to win right away, regardless of the talent on the current roster.

4. We will never be able to recruit the type of athletes he needs.

I am guessing you agree with most of this, despite the fact that 3&4 contradict each other.

I'm pretty sure MR walks by more offensive line talent on the way to work than many of the coaches you mentioned. Most successful power running teams from northern teams still have skill position players from Cal/Texas/Florida/Georgia/Louisiana. I know TO did. Do you think offensive linemen from the midwest are incapable of pass-blocking? Besides, while getting an elite 11 QB would be great, I would settle for a 3-star or 4-star that has been hand-selected by Riley to run his offense. Zac Taylor was a pretty good JUCO QB for us in a pro-style. Pretty sure we can land the talent we need to be competitive.

Would I rather have Tom Herman? I don't know. Would you rather have Nick Saban? since we're throwing out random coaches that aren't here.

 

Offensive line talent? I haven't checked rivals and whatnot, but where? Are there Lincoln and Omaha schools pumping out 4 and 5 star offensive linemen that we don't know about?

 

I don't totally agree with the OP. We have to be able to throw the ball enough to keep defenses honest, but where I disagree with Riley/Langsdorf is that we need to run to open up the pass and not vise versa.

 

We haven't shown the capability to recruit or keep effective pass-blocking linemen. Ever.

 

If we're talking pro-style QB's, then Zac Taylor, while a great kid and good football player, is not a good example, because I don't think he played one down of pro ball.

 

You brought up Herman, not me.

[Jeremy]

 

I just don't see how Riley is going to beat out Harbaugh, Sumlin, Mcelwain, Fisher, Mora, Miles, etc, for the top talent he would need to win a B1G title.

 

Considering that only one of those coaches on your list actually coaches a team in the B1G, I think the answer is that he'll only have to beat out one of them.

 

For the areas we're recruiting (B1G states, Texas, Cali, Florida, Louisiana, etc), he'll be competing with all these coaches and more for top talent, and we won't win there enough going after pro-style players.