Run game: striking differences between Riley and Langsdorf

[ColoradoHusk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

 

 

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

 

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

 

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

 

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

 

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

 

 

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

 

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

 

 

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

 

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

 

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

 

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

 

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

 

 

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

 

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

 

Which is much much much much harder to consistently do now days when every program has a weight and nutrition program like we had back in the day.

[ColoradoHusk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

 

 

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

 

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

 

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

 

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

 

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

 

 

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

 

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

 

Which is much much much much harder to consistently do now days when every program has a weight and nutrition program like we had back in the day.

 

I agree with that point, NU doesn't have a huge advantage in S&C anymore. I just don't think it's the easiest thing to do by saying "we are going to bring in a QB who can sling it around to 4 stud WR's" and NU is going to be unstoppable.

[olddominionhusker]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

I agree with you. I think that while both systems obviously require certain types of players, getting marquee players for Riley's type of offense is harder at a place like Nebraska. To take it one step further, I think that Bankers defensive system is also very talent dependent. The system is similar to what MSU runs and you could see their drop off defensively this year without an elite secondary.

Now, there is certainly a bigger pool to pick from as far as players who will fit Riley's system, but the competition for those players is also much stiffer. With a more power run/option focused system the competition from other programs is going to be much less and Nebraska would arguably be the biggest fish in that recruiting pond along with Ga Tech.

At the end of the day though Riley is what we have so I just hope he can find something that works for the program. Although every game this year had it's share of head scratching play calls, I do think that after Purdue the staff did a much better job calling games. Perfect? Not by a long shot. But I did see improvement and some flexibility. Enough to be at least curious about the direction next year and perhaps a little more hopeful

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

 

 

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

 

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

 

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

 

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

 

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

 

 

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

 

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

 

Which is much much much much harder to consistently do now days when every program has a weight and nutrition program like we had back in the day.

 

I agree with that point, NU doesn't have a huge advantage in S&C anymore. I just don't think it's the easiest thing to do by saying "we are going to bring in a QB who can sling it around to 4 stud WR's" and NU is going to be unstoppable.

 

You're basing this on the belief that we can't get a QB that can pass the ball really well and WRs to catch those balls.

Well. Right now we have arguably the best WR crew in the conference. I would even say they may be top 10 in the nation. This is while having QBs who aren't the best at passing.

 

We have a QB starting school on Monday that (at least in HS) has shown he can throw the ball pretty dang well.

We have a group of WRs (with one having a dang good pedigree) coming to visit the end of January and they are VERY interested in us because of our coaching staff. It's been said that possibly the best WR in the group has us as a strong favorite.

 

The QB from that same group is at least interested in us enough that he is visiting and great friends with all these others.

We have a 4* safety committed to us from this same school and he is good friends with this group. He'll sign the papers next month.

 

 

Now...is it smart to just throw up our hands and proclaim..."This will never work here" when this staff has done this kind of work on the recruiting trail?

 

Oh...and BTW.....I think we have one of the best (if not the best) WR coach in the country.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

I agree with you. I think that while both systems obviously require certain types of players, getting marquee players for Riley's type of offense is harder at a place like Nebraska. To take it one step further, I think that Bankers defensive system is also very talent dependent. The system is similar to what MSU runs and you could see their drop off defensively this year without an elite secondary.

Now, there is certainly a bigger pool to pick from as far as players who will fit Riley's system, but the competition for those players is also much stiffer. With a more power run/option focused system the competition from other programs is going to be much less and Nebraska would arguably be the biggest fish in that recruiting pond along with Ga Tech.

At the end of the day though Riley is what we have so I just hope he can find something that works for the program. Although every game this year had it's share of head scratching play calls, I do think that after Purdue the staff did a much better job calling games. Perfect? Not by a long shot. But I did see improvement and some flexibility. Enough to be at least curious about the direction next year and perhaps a little more hopeful

 

One thing that is missing from this conversation.

 

To run the power run/option attack and be extremely successful at it, you have to have a staff that isn't just committed to run it but are absolute masters at running it.

Those coaches are far and few between anymore.

[ColoradoHusk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

 

 

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

 

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

 

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

 

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

 

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

 

 

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

 

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

 

Which is much much much much harder to consistently do now days when every program has a weight and nutrition program like we had back in the day.

 

I agree with that point, NU doesn't have a huge advantage in S&C anymore. I just don't think it's the easiest thing to do by saying "we are going to bring in a QB who can sling it around to 4 stud WR's" and NU is going to be unstoppable.

 

You're basing this on the belief that we can't get a QB that can pass the ball really well and WRs to catch those balls.

Well. Right now we have arguably the best WR crew in the conference. I would even say they may be top 10 in the nation. This is while having QBs who aren't the best at passing.

 

We have a QB starting school on Monday that (at least in HS) has shown he can throw the ball pretty dang well.

We have a group of WRs (with one having a dang good pedigree) coming to visit the end of January and they are VERY interested in us because of our coaching staff. It's been said that possibly the best WR in the group has us as a strong favorite.

 

The QB from that same group is at least interested in us enough that he is visiting and great friends with all these others.

We have a 4* safety committed to us from this same school and he is good friends with this group. He'll sign the papers next month.

 

 

Now...is it smart to just throw up our hands and proclaim..."This will never work here" when this staff has done this kind of work on the recruiting trail?

 

Oh...and BTW.....I think we have one of the best (if not the best) WR coach in the country.

 

I like what Riley and his staff are doing in recruiting QB's and WR's. They appear to be doing very well. It will be interesting to see if they close on all these stud guys and get them to come to Lincoln.

 

I also liked what Riley and Langsdorf did with the bowl game. It will be interesting to see if Riley continues to stick with the running game or if it's just lip service. There are going to be games each season where the conditions don't allow for a strong passing day, and NU will need to be able to commit to running the ball and be successful doing so. It didn't happen this past season.

[olddominionhusker]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

I agree with you. I think that while both systems obviously require certain types of players, getting marquee players for Riley's type of offense is harder at a place like Nebraska. To take it one step further, I think that Bankers defensive system is also very talent dependent. The system is similar to what MSU runs and you could see their drop off defensively this year without an elite secondary.

Now, there is certainly a bigger pool to pick from as far as players who will fit Riley's system, but the competition for those players is also much stiffer. With a more power run/option focused system the competition from other programs is going to be much less and Nebraska would arguably be the biggest fish in that recruiting pond along with Ga Tech.

At the end of the day though Riley is what we have so I just hope he can find something that works for the program. Although every game this year had it's share of head scratching play calls, I do think that after Purdue the staff did a much better job calling games. Perfect? Not by a long shot. But I did see improvement and some flexibility. Enough to be at least curious about the direction next year and perhaps a little more hopeful

One thing that is missing from this conversation.

 

To run the power run/option attack and be extremely successful at it, you have to have a staff that isn't just committed to run it but are absolute masters at running it.

Those coaches are far and few between anymore.

But not extinct. The guy from Navy comes to mind. Troy Calhoun as well although his system is a bit more diverse.

 

I agree though that Riley trying to instill that system would be silly. It's not what he is good at.

Like many here, I would like to see a system like Stanford here. I think that would be a system that we could recruit for long term and be successful

[ColoradoHusk]

All this discussion about the offensive style is really moot unless the defense gets significantly better. McKewon had a pretty good rant on his podcast with Nyatawa this week in that if NU wants to be back to competing for conference and national championships, the defense has to be the one that leads the way.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

I agree with you. I think that while both systems obviously require certain types of players, getting marquee players for Riley's type of offense is harder at a place like Nebraska. To take it one step further, I think that Bankers defensive system is also very talent dependent. The system is similar to what MSU runs and you could see their drop off defensively this year without an elite secondary.

Now, there is certainly a bigger pool to pick from as far as players who will fit Riley's system, but the competition for those players is also much stiffer. With a more power run/option focused system the competition from other programs is going to be much less and Nebraska would arguably be the biggest fish in that recruiting pond along with Ga Tech.

At the end of the day though Riley is what we have so I just hope he can find something that works for the program. Although every game this year had it's share of head scratching play calls, I do think that after Purdue the staff did a much better job calling games. Perfect? Not by a long shot. But I did see improvement and some flexibility. Enough to be at least curious about the direction next year and perhaps a little more hopeful

One thing that is missing from this conversation.

 

To run the power run/option attack and be extremely successful at it, you have to have a staff that isn't just committed to run it but are absolute masters at running it.

Those coaches are far and few between anymore.

But not extinct. The guy from Navy comes to mind. Troy Calhoun as well although his system is a bit more diverse.

 

I agree though that Riley trying to instill that system would be silly. It's not what he is good at.

Like many here, I would like to see a system like Stanford here. I think that would be a system that we could recruit for long term and be successful

 

Hmmmmm....

 

Stanford has in this recruiting class, the #5 pro style QB, The #1 WR in the state of CA, The #2 TE in the nation, The #18 OT in the nation...etc.

 

How are they recruiting different types of players than we are trying to get?

[BigRedBuster]

All this discussion about the offensive style is really moot unless the defense gets significantly better. McKewon had a pretty good rant on his podcast with Nyatawa this week in that if NU wants to be back to competing for conference and national championships, the defense has to be the one that leads the way.

Don't disagree.

[olddominionhusker]

All this discussion about the offensive style is really moot unless the defense gets significantly better. McKewon had a pretty good rant on his podcast with Nyatawa this week in that if NU wants to be back to competing for conference and national championships, the defense has to be the one that leads the way.

I tend to agree. The offense has enough firepower to compete. We are going nowhere as long as pass defense continues to be this abysmal. This is also the area where I have some serious recruiting concerns particularly with respect to D line where after next year we will be paper thin unless we get some commits or transfers.

And if you think this D was bad this year imagine one that is similar but can no longer stuff the run due to a weak front 4

[olddominionhusker]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

I agree with you. I think that while both systems obviously require certain types of players, getting marquee players for Riley's type of offense is harder at a place like Nebraska. To take it one step further, I think that Bankers defensive system is also very talent dependent. The system is similar to what MSU runs and you could see their drop off defensively this year without an elite secondary.

Now, there is certainly a bigger pool to pick from as far as players who will fit Riley's system, but the competition for those players is also much stiffer. With a more power run/option focused system the competition from other programs is going to be much less and Nebraska would arguably be the biggest fish in that recruiting pond along with Ga Tech.

At the end of the day though Riley is what we have so I just hope he can find something that works for the program. Although every game this year had it's share of head scratching play calls, I do think that after Purdue the staff did a much better job calling games. Perfect? Not by a long shot. But I did see improvement and some flexibility. Enough to be at least curious about the direction next year and perhaps a little more hopeful

One thing that is missing from this conversation.

 

To run the power run/option attack and be extremely successful at it, you have to have a staff that isn't just committed to run it but are absolute masters at running it.

Those coaches are far and few between anymore.

But not extinct. The guy from Navy comes to mind. Troy Calhoun as well although his system is a bit more diverse.

 

I agree though that Riley trying to instill that system would be silly. It's not what he is good at.

Like many here, I would like to see a system like Stanford here. I think that would be a system that we could recruit for long term and be successful

Hmmmmm....

 

Stanford has in this recruiting class, the #5 pro style QB, The #1 WR in the state of CA, The #2 TE in the nation, The #18 OT in the nation...etc.

 

How are they recruiting different types of players than we are trying to get?

.

 

I never said they were. I was talking about their system not their players. You can recruit the same type of players but in a less pass happy wide open variant, the individual talent doesn't necessarily have to be as great at those positions. We have good RB right now. We have great talent at receiver. But QB is not suited to an air raid offense and OLine is mediocre all around. Commitment to a power run game with an efficient passing attack is our best offensive plan IMO. We can't put too much pressure on any one aspect of the offense with our current group. In my opinion, too often this staff placed too much pressure on our passing attack which was ill suited to deal with it. I'm not suggesting a switch to triple option, I hope that's clear. I just don't care for DL defeatist attitude with regard to the run game which is how I interpret his comments.

[Guy Chamberlin]

The kind of quarterback needed to make Riley's offense really click is a Tommy Armstrong who throws half the interceptions and makes a few better decisions in the run/pass option.

 

There are plenty of quarterbacks who can do that, and one of them might be Tommy Armstrong himself.

 

A slight upgrade in running back and OL cohesion would help. Just as they would help every team.

 

Our receivers appeared a bit more talented and dangerous than our running backs this year. An emerging Ozigbo or other RB could shift the ratio without requiring any dramatic changes. That's likely where we're headed.

 

This offense is in no way exotic or reliant on specialized talent. It's just football.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The blowouts definitely needed to get fixed. No doubt. They were unacceptable mainly because I think they ended up beating the team twice on occasion (e.g., losing to Minnesota after the wisky game).

 

I just didn't see them as inevitable if we'd stayed the course with the last staff.

 

Just like there's nothing inevitable about this staff, good or bad.

Wait....

 

Haven't you proclaimed that this staff will never be successful here?

No, I've never said that, but I have my doubts that they will ever win a championship with their current system and definitely have doubts that they will ever get back to a consistent level of .700+ seasons.

 

But it's not necessarily inevitable. They could hire a new OC for example. Or there could be a rush of elitely talented players born in Nebraska around 1998. All sorts of variables out there.

OK....understand.

 

In your first post, you implied that if we would have stayed the course with the old staff, the blow outs were not inevitable to continue.

 

In this post, you imply that changes in the staff very well could be needed to reach the success we want.

 

Now, I could have you mixed up with someone else so correct me if I'm wrong.

But, aren't you one that has said you don't like this staff because they have always been a pass happy offensive staff and coaches don't change over night what they like and understand to do?

cm can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his personal belief is that the style of offense these coaches want to run, and relied on at times this year, is not a recipe for sustained success at Nebraska.

Yes....That is how I understand his stance.

 

However, what happens if POB is as good as advertised (or we get Gebia next year and he is)and we get 3-4 really good receivers this year and next (to add to what we already have)? What if our line keeps improving in pass pro?

 

All of those things are possible. THEN, a more passing offense could work here.

This is what bothers me about Riley's offense. The team requires SO MANY good/great players at all these spots that it makes recruiting and player development the biggest thing to make the offense work.

 

Your basically saying "we need 11 great players to be great on offense". Is that realistic?

Again, the power running game of Tom Osborne and the high degree of discipline and execution option football required were probably more complicated and talent reliant than most offenses run today.

You are talking about different type of talent. The power running game of TO required o-linemen who could work as a unit and focus on run-blocking, which is generally easier than pass blocking. When I think run-blocking, it's being more physical dominant than the guy across from you. They don't require o-linemen to be tall with long arms and good feet which pass blocking requires. I'm not saying the run blocking doesn't require good footwork, but it's a different type of footwork.

 

The running back is an important position in order to gain consistent yardage and break big plays. The QB position really needs to be smart with the football, and make quick decisions in the play-action passing game.

 

Other than that, the WR position relies more on having more space to get open because there are fewer defender in pass coverage. The WR position needs to be a solid blocker and good hands, but not necessarily burner speed. The tight end position is a luxury. When there is a great tight end, that can cover up for lack of talent at WR.

I agree with you. I think that while both systems obviously require certain types of players, getting marquee players for Riley's type of offense is harder at a place like Nebraska. To take it one step further, I think that Bankers defensive system is also very talent dependent. The system is similar to what MSU runs and you could see their drop off defensively this year without an elite secondary.

Now, there is certainly a bigger pool to pick from as far as players who will fit Riley's system, but the competition for those players is also much stiffer. With a more power run/option focused system the competition from other programs is going to be much less and Nebraska would arguably be the biggest fish in that recruiting pond along with Ga Tech.

At the end of the day though Riley is what we have so I just hope he can find something that works for the program. Although every game this year had it's share of head scratching play calls, I do think that after Purdue the staff did a much better job calling games. Perfect? Not by a long shot. But I did see improvement and some flexibility. Enough to be at least curious about the direction next year and perhaps a little more hopeful

One thing that is missing from this conversation.

 

To run the power run/option attack and be extremely successful at it, you have to have a staff that isn't just committed to run it but are absolute masters at running it.

Those coaches are far and few between anymore.

But not extinct. The guy from Navy comes to mind. Troy Calhoun as well although his system is a bit more diverse.

 

I agree though that Riley trying to instill that system would be silly. It's not what he is good at.

Like many here, I would like to see a system like Stanford here. I think that would be a system that we could recruit for long term and be successful

Hmmmmm....

 

Stanford has in this recruiting class, the #5 pro style QB, The #1 WR in the state of CA, The #2 TE in the nation, The #18 OT in the nation...etc.

 

How are they recruiting different types of players than we are trying to get?

.

 

I never said they were. I was talking about their system not their players. You can recruit the same type of players but in a less pass happy wide open variant, the individual talent doesn't necessarily have to be as great at those positions. We have good RB right now. We have great talent at receiver. But QB is not suited to an air raid offense and OLine is mediocre all around. Commitment to a power run game with an efficient passing attack is our best offensive plan IMO. We can't put too much pressure on any one aspect of the offense with our current group. In my opinion, too often this staff placed too much pressure on our passing attack which was ill suited to deal with it. I'm not suggesting a switch to triple option, I hope that's clear. I just don't care for DL defeatist attitude with regard to the run game which is how I interpret his comments.

 

Ok....I was in a discussion earlier where some were claiming we can't recruit good pro style QBs and receivers so we need to scrap this system and go to a system more like what we used to run where the QB is less reliant on being able to pass accurately.

 

Well, the Stanford offense still requires a good accurate passer and good receivers. If not, why would they be recruiting that type of player?

 

What I see you saying compared to what we ran this year, is....if we had very similar plays in the play book but just ran the ball more like 60-40 instead of 50-50.....we would be more successful. (Stanford ran the ball 65.7% of the time last year) However, like in the Iowa game, most of the game they were right at about a 50-50 split.