Black Lives Matter Coalition Makes Demands as Campaign Heats Up.

[NM11046]

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/black-lives-matter-campaign.html?_r=1

 

 

 

More than 60 organizations associated with the Black Lives Matter movement have released a series of demands on Monday, including for reparations.

The list of six platform demands is aimed at furthering their goals as the presidential campaign heads into the homestretch.

The release of the six demands comes a few days before the second anniversary of the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., which set off months of protests and led to a national conversation about police killings of blacks.

As part of the effort, the groups are demanding, among other things, reparations for what they say are past and continuing harms to African-Americans, an end to the death penalty, legislation to acknowledge the effects of slavery, as well as investments in education initiatives, mental health services and jobs programs.

 

 

just in case anyone forgot what Brown was really like, as opposed to the kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nguoNxwycc

So to be clear huskerfan2000, because he had a shady past you feel he deserved to be killed by those who are sworn to protect the public?

 

 

How the hell did you draw that parallel, no seriously, how the hell?

 

Ummm based on your comment, "just in case anyone forgot what Brown was really like, as opposed to the kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media."

[zoogs]

It's literally the death penalty that is responsible for an innocent person getting killed by the death penalty.

[JJ Husker]

It's literally the death penalty that is responsible for an innocent person getting killed by the death penalty.

Okay, so what is at fault for an innocently jailed person who was convicted of arson or armed robbery or breaking and entering or auto theft? Is it the jails fault or the law that they broke or what?

[zoogs]

Right, the point of this political demand is that we don't sponsor the state to actually kill people. There will always be mistakes in the justice system, but killing is a rather permanent move. It is one among many arguments against the death penalty.

 

There are a lot of other issues to talk about when it comes to criminal justice, and over-eagerness to jail to begin with is another one of them (actually, wasn't that covered in the demands as well?). These are all 'everybody' issues, but of course as with many of the ills that do exist, they're felt in disproportion by minorities. And progress tends to reach minority groups last, if at all.

[JJ Husker]

So, if we abolish the death penalty because the penalty is what's responsible for killing innocent people, what do we abolish to prevent innocent people from being wrongly incarcerated?

 

If this is just a straight up "death penalty is bad" thing, what does it have to do with BLM specifically? I understand that black people are disproportionately convicted of crimes, including death penalty crimes, but I'm failing to see why the death penalty is specifically being targeted. Surely, if the concern is that innocent blacks are being disproportionately killed by the death penalty, then there must also be an inordinate amount of blacks wrongly jailed. So, I ask again, what penalty do we abolish to correct that?

 

My point should be clear, the failure is not with the penalty but with something else. I think the more important thing to fix is that something else. Also, I must point out that I am not convinced that an innocent person dying is really any worse than an innocent person being jailed for 20 or more years. If I was wrongly jailed for that amount if time, I would prefer that they killed me.

[Moiraine]

So, if we abolish the death penalty because the penalty is what's responsible for killing innocent people, what do we abolish to prevent innocent people from being wrongly incarcerated?

 

If this is just a straight up "death penalty is bad" thing, what does it have to do with BLM specifically? I understand that black people are disproportionately convicted of crimes, including death penalty crimes, but I'm failing to see why the death penalty is specifically being targeted. Surely, if the concern is that innocent blacks are being disproportionately killed by the death penalty, then there must also be an inordinate amount of blacks wrongly jailed. So, I ask again, what penalty do we abolish to correct that?

 

My point should be clear, the failure is not with the penalty but with something else. I think the more important thing to fix is that something else. Also, I must point out that I am not convinced that an innocent person dying is really any worse than an innocent person being jailed for 20 or more years. If I was wrongly jailed for that amount if time, I would prefer that they killed me.

If what Landlord said is true, that Blacks are disproportionately on Death Row, then I think that explains it. That would mean (I'm guessing) that, of the people who have been convicted of murder, a higher proportion of Blacks are sentenced to death than are other races, for committing the same crimes. This is above and beyond just being convicted of murder. It's about Blacks receiving the death penalty more often.

 

I understand your point though, that lowering the convictions would lower the number of Blacks on death row. But let's say the number of convictions does lessen. The proportion of those convicted who got sent to Death Row might still stay the same and would still be considered a problem.

[huskerfan2000]

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/black-lives-matter-campaign.html?_r=1

 

 

 

More than 60 organizations associated with the Black Lives Matter movement have released a series of demands on Monday, including for reparations.

The list of six platform demands is aimed at furthering their goals as the presidential campaign heads into the homestretch.

The release of the six demands comes a few days before the second anniversary of the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., which set off months of protests and led to a national conversation about police killings of blacks.

As part of the effort, the groups are demanding, among other things, reparations for what they say are past and continuing harms to African-Americans, an end to the death penalty, legislation to acknowledge the effects of slavery, as well as investments in education initiatives, mental health services and jobs programs.

 

 

just in case anyone forgot what Brown was really like, as opposed to the kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nguoNxwycc

So to be clear huskerfan2000, because he had a shady past you feel he deserved to be killed by those who are sworn to protect the public?

 

 

How the hell did you draw that parallel, no seriously, how the hell?

 

Ummm based on your comment, "just in case anyone forgot what Brown was really like, as opposed to the kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media."

 

 

I will ask again, how the hell did you get that out of what I said? It doesn't suggest anything of the sort.

 

It DOES mean he wasn't the, and I quote myself, "kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media"

 

Do you still not understand why I said it like I did? I can explain further if you need me to.

[NM11046]

 

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/black-lives-matter-campaign.html?_r=1

 

 

 

More than 60 organizations associated with the Black Lives Matter movement have released a series of demands on Monday, including for reparations.

The list of six platform demands is aimed at furthering their goals as the presidential campaign heads into the homestretch.

The release of the six demands comes a few days before the second anniversary of the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., which set off months of protests and led to a national conversation about police killings of blacks.

As part of the effort, the groups are demanding, among other things, reparations for what they say are past and continuing harms to African-Americans, an end to the death penalty, legislation to acknowledge the effects of slavery, as well as investments in education initiatives, mental health services and jobs programs.

 

 

just in case anyone forgot what Brown was really like, as opposed to the kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nguoNxwycc

So to be clear huskerfan2000, because he had a shady past you feel he deserved to be killed by those who are sworn to protect the public?

 

 

How the hell did you draw that parallel, no seriously, how the hell?

 

Ummm based on your comment, "just in case anyone forgot what Brown was really like, as opposed to the kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media."

 

 

I will ask again, how the hell did you get that out of what I said? It doesn't suggest anything of the sort.

 

It DOES mean he wasn't the, and I quote myself, "kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media"

 

Do you still not understand why I said it like I did? I can explain further if you need me to.

 

Perhaps I was totally off base on the tone of your text-my apologies if so. To me it read that you felt the BLM movement used this man as a motivator but we should remember that this man was a bad guy.

[huskerfan2000]

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/black-lives-matter-campaign.html?_r=1

 

 

 

More than 60 organizations associated with the Black Lives Matter movement have released a series of demands on Monday, including for reparations.

The list of six platform demands is aimed at furthering their goals as the presidential campaign heads into the homestretch.

The release of the six demands comes a few days before the second anniversary of the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., which set off months of protests and led to a national conversation about police killings of blacks.

As part of the effort, the groups are demanding, among other things, reparations for what they say are past and continuing harms to African-Americans, an end to the death penalty, legislation to acknowledge the effects of slavery, as well as investments in education initiatives, mental health services and jobs programs.

 

 

just in case anyone forgot what Brown was really like, as opposed to the kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nguoNxwycc

So to be clear huskerfan2000, because he had a shady past you feel he deserved to be killed by those who are sworn to protect the public?

 

 

How the hell did you draw that parallel, no seriously, how the hell?

 

Ummm based on your comment, "just in case anyone forgot what Brown was really like, as opposed to the kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media."

 

 

I will ask again, how the hell did you get that out of what I said? It doesn't suggest anything of the sort.

 

It DOES mean he wasn't the, and I quote myself, "kind and wonderful human being, as he was portrayed in the media"

 

Do you still not understand why I said it like I did? I can explain further if you need me to.

 

Perhaps I was totally off base on the tone of your text-my apologies if so. To me it read that you felt the BLM movement used this man as a motivator but we should remember that this man was a bad guy.

 

 

 

That is exactly what I meant.. that doesn't mean I was also saying he should have been killed because of being that way. I didn't add this, but I will now, when you try to take the gun from an officer THEN you can expect the worst outcome... not because he was a wrongly portrayed as kind wonderful human being when in reality he was a thug!

 

Now I will apologize, I was being kind of a smart arse in my responses to you.

[huskerfan2000]

 

So, if we abolish the death penalty because the penalty is what's responsible for killing innocent people, what do we abolish to prevent innocent people from being wrongly incarcerated?

 

If this is just a straight up "death penalty is bad" thing, what does it have to do with BLM specifically? I understand that black people are disproportionately convicted of crimes, including death penalty crimes, but I'm failing to see why the death penalty is specifically being targeted. Surely, if the concern is that innocent blacks are being disproportionately killed by the death penalty, then there must also be an inordinate amount of blacks wrongly jailed. So, I ask again, what penalty do we abolish to correct that?

 

My point should be clear, the failure is not with the penalty but with something else. I think the more important thing to fix is that something else. Also, I must point out that I am not convinced that an innocent person dying is really any worse than an innocent person being jailed for 20 or more years. If I was wrongly jailed for that amount if time, I would prefer that they killed me.

If what Landlord said is true, that Blacks are disproportionately on Death Row, then I think that explains it. That would mean (I'm guessing) that, of the people who have been convicted of murder, a higher proportion of Blacks are sentenced to death than are other races, for committing the same crimes. This is above and beyond just being convicted of murder. It's about Blacks receiving the death penalty more often.

 

I understand your point though, that lowering the convictions would lower the number of Blacks on death row. But let's say the number of convictions does lessen. The proportion of those convicted who got sent to Death Row might still stay the same and would still be considered a problem.

 

 

 

Seems to me like a lot of speculating to try and make a point.. not a lot of facts.

[zoogs]

 

So, if we abolish the death penalty because the penalty is what's responsible for killing innocent people, what do we abolish to prevent innocent people from being wrongly incarcerated?

Well, there are other criminal justice reform pushes out there to reduce the level of incarceration in the country. Look 'em up. This isn't an either-or.

 

I understand that black people are disproportionately convicted of crimes, including death penalty crimes, but I'm failing to see why the death penalty is specifically being targeted

If you understand the bold, how do you not see why this is a hugely relevant issue to the black community?

All this said, I can understand there are differing opinions on the death penalty. I'm not suggesting it is required to have similar opinions in other areas of criminal justice reform, simply outlining the case being made here.

[Danny Bateman]

 

 

So, if we abolish the death penalty because the penalty is what's responsible for killing innocent people, what do we abolish to prevent innocent people from being wrongly incarcerated?

Well, there are other criminal justice reform pushes out there to reduce the level of incarceration in the country. Look 'em up. This isn't an either-or.

 

I understand that black people are disproportionately convicted of crimes, including death penalty crimes, but I'm failing to see why the death penalty is specifically being targeted

If you understand the bold, how do you not see why this is a hugely relevant issue to the black community?

All this said, I can understand there are differing opinions on the death penalty. I'm not suggesting it is required to have similar opinions in other areas of criminal justice reform, simply outlining the case being made here.

 

 

The death penalty is the one typical hot-button issue in which I've personally changed my own opinions during this campaign cycle.

 

I used to be pro death penalty. Now I do not see the point. One innocent life lost is too many. Of course, there are particularly heinous crimes out there that deserve the full weight of the law brought down upon the perpetrator. But I think the extent of the book thrown at them should be rotting in jail. We should also strongly focus on reforming our prison system so the low-level offenders get the chance to rehabilitate and try to become productive members of society instead of clogging up the system for the people who truly deserve to be there.

 

I say that as a white male who's never been in trouble with the law. The prospect of jail time for some petty drug or theft conviction, or death penalty for something more serious as a black American must be terrifying.

[JJ Husker]

 

So, if we abolish the death penalty because the penalty is what's responsible for killing innocent people, what do we abolish to prevent innocent people from being wrongly incarcerated?

 

Well, there are other criminal justice reform pushes out there to reduce the level of incarceration in the country. Look 'em up. This isn't an either-or.

 

 

 

I understand that black people are disproportionately convicted of crimes, including death penalty crimes, but I'm failing to see why the death penalty is specifically being targeted

 

If you understand the bold, how do you not see why this is a hugely relevant issue to the black community?

 

All this said, I can understand there are differing opinions on the death penalty. I'm not suggesting it is required to have similar opinions in other areas of criminal justice reform, simply outlining the case being made here.

Maybe it is the context in which I am looking at this. The OP article was about 6 demands that BLM will make. I took issue with 3 of them, one of those being an end to the DP. It just seems to me a group called Black Lives Matter should have a whole list of more important things before that is one of them. If it was #28 on their list, I could understand it but it is in the top of apparently only 6 plank issues. Personally, I am on the fence with the DP. I am generally opposed to killing people for any reason and I am really against killing innocent people but there are those special cases where I feel certain heinous criminals have earned that outcome. So it's not really a DP is good or bad thing for me. My point is that if BLM should focus on the issues that will truly help make a difference in the black community, and if they would do that and not support things that seem to place them at odds with a law abiding society, then I think their movement would gain much wider acceptance from all people. Some of the things they do and support sort of makes it seem like they don't want to really fix the basic problems affecting their communities. IMO, the death penalty should be way down their list.

 

I'm too lazy to look it up but exactly how many black people have been executed that have been proven to be innocent? One is too many but it certainly can't be some huge list of names. I think their focus should be on correcting the things that get black arrested disproportionately or that place them at odds with a law abiding society. The penalty isn't the problem. The problem is in the system that would execute or incarcerate any innocent person and the fact that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Let's fix those things. Then the DP won't be a problem for anyone except those who are opposed to it on principle.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Capitol punishment may be meaningful as our national moral position on crime and criminals, but we can't pretend it's a deterrent.

 

Does anyone believe that someone considering murder thinks to himself: "if I'm caught, I'll only get life in prison. Thank God they abolished the death penalty."

 

Weirdly enough, it's often more expensive to the state (and taxpayers) to execute a prisoner rather than to keep him in prison for life.

 

That and the fact that we occasionally execute innocent people makes me think the DP isn't a great or obvious solution.

 

Or to look at it another way, if the same number of innocent people (primarily black) executed by the state were to die of E-coli from tainted hamburger meat, there would likely be greater outrage.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

So, if we abolish the death penalty because the penalty is what's responsible for killing innocent people, what do we abolish to prevent innocent people from being wrongly incarcerated?

 

Well, there are other criminal justice reform pushes out there to reduce the level of incarceration in the country. Look 'em up. This isn't an either-or.

 

 

 

I understand that black people are disproportionately convicted of crimes, including death penalty crimes, but I'm failing to see why the death penalty is specifically being targeted

 

If you understand the bold, how do you not see why this is a hugely relevant issue to the black community?

 

All this said, I can understand there are differing opinions on the death penalty. I'm not suggesting it is required to have similar opinions in other areas of criminal justice reform, simply outlining the case being made here.

The death penalty is the one typical hot-button issue in which I've personally changed my own opinions during this campaign cycle.

 

I used to be pro death penalty. Now I do not see the point. One innocent life lost is too many. Of course, there are particularly heinous crimes out there that deserve the full weight of the law brought down upon the perpetrator. But I think the extent of the book thrown at them should be rotting in jail. We should also strongly focus on reforming our prison system so the low-level offenders get the chance to rehabilitate and try to become productive members of society instead of clogging up the system for the people who truly deserve to be there.

 

I say that as a white male who's never been in trouble with the law. The prospect of jail time for some petty drug or theft conviction, or death penalty for something more serious as a black American must be terrifying.

I pretty much agree with all of this except, the DP should be terrifying. It should serve as a deterrent to committing heinous crimes. And that is not a white or black issue.

 

AnD see, you just came up with another issue that should be much higher up BLM's list of things to fix. Let's reform the prison system so that petty criminals are not rotting away in there and the ones who do need to be incarcerated get rehabilitated rather than learning how to be life long habitual criminals. Much more important things for BLM, and all of us, to focus on.