The morning after...

[knapplc]

This country was divided prior to Obama. It's even more so after. He was supposed to unite the country, but instead his presidency drove a much larger wedge in the divide.

 

Remember hope and change?

This is a lesson that's very tough to learn, apparently. But it's a matter of history, and should not be ignored.

 

 

The Republicans’ Plan for the New President

 

On the night of Barack Obama’s inauguration, a group of top GOP luminaries quietly gathered in a Washington steakhouse to lick their wounds and ultimately create the outline of a plan for how to deal with the incoming administration.

 

“The room was filled. It was a who’s who of ranking members who had at one point been committee chairmen, or in the majority, who now wondered out loud whether they were in the permanent minority,” Frank Luntz, who organized the event, told FRONTLINE.

 

Among them were Senate power brokers Jim DeMint, Jon Kyl and Tom Coburn, and conservative congressmen Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan.

 

After three hours of strategizing, they decided they needed to fight Obama on everything. The new president had no idea what the Republicans were planning.

 

 

Obama could not unite the country. Political rivals united against him before he ever took office and vowed to obstruct everything he did.

 

That is not Obama's fault. He hadn't even been sworn into office.

 

If you want to blame anyone for the greater divide in this country during Obama's term, blame the Republicans. Obama tried to work with them. They conspired against him.

[cornstar]

Now...I happen to agree with much of the original post as far as liberal's elite attitudes. But, that's always going to be there along with (as Knapp pointed out) rural conservatives thinking city people are clueless.

I agree with some of what you say, but I want to touch upon this. I don't know where you all watched the coverage, but I did on ABC. They pretty much said that the stupid uneducated rural white male vote is what won the election for Trump.

 

Pretty deplorable.

[cornstar]

 

 

 

 

And people wonder why this country is divided.

Thanks, Obama.

 

(Not kidding)

Obama didn't divide this country. People upset that a Black man was elected president divided this country.

 

Not kidding.

I don't think the reason the country is divided has anything to do with Obama one way or the other. I think it's divided because there is nothing called "honest disagreement" in politics anymore. Political opponents aren't considered to be honorable, decent people having honest, differing opinions; they are considered horrible human beings who must be destroyed. In my opinion this started during the 92 Bush/Clinton campaign and hasn't stopped since.

Great point.

[zoogs]

I think that's a good post, saunders. There's a reckoning coming to the left, and it's not clear how it will be settled. Yours is as good an argument as any, at this point.

 

I can only hope that they will do this productively -- and sanely. We are worse for the wear without it.

 

At the same time, I do agree with all the counterpoints knapp has been making. The way forward is unclear to me.

[cornstar]

 

This country was divided prior to Obama. It's even more so after. He was supposed to unite the country, but instead his presidency drove a much larger wedge in the divide.

 

Remember hope and change?

This is a lesson that's very tough to learn, apparently. But it's a matter of history, and should not be ignored.

 

The Republicans Plan for the New President

 

On the night of Barack Obamas inauguration, a group of top GOP luminaries quietly gathered in a Washington steakhouse to lick their wounds and ultimately create the outline of a plan for how to deal with the incoming administration.

 

The room was filled. It was a whos who of ranking members who had at one point been committee chairmen, or in the majority, who now wondered out loud whether they were in the permanent minority, Frank Luntz, who organized the event, told FRONTLINE.

 

Among them were Senate power brokers Jim DeMint, Jon Kyl and Tom Coburn, and conservative congressmen Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan.

 

After three hours of strategizing, they decided they needed to fight Obama on everything. The new president had no idea what the Republicans were planning.

 

Obama could not unite the country. Political rivals united against him before he ever took office and vowed to obstruct everything he did.

 

That is not Obama's fault. He hadn't even been sworn into office.

 

If you want to blame anyone for the greater divide in this country during Obama's term, blame the Republicans. Obama tried to work with them. They conspired against him.

Hypocritical nonsense.

 

When the Rs don't break from their core beliefs they're being obstructionists, but when the Ds won't, they are sticking to their guns and fighting for what they believe in. <rolls eyes>

 

That's not what I was referring to, I was referring to Obama saying that Tray von Martin looked like his son if he had one, or him and his DOJ speaking out against Ferguson without having all the facts which just incited more violence.

[Landlord]

or him and his DOJ speaking out against Ferguson without having all the facts which just incited more violence.

 

 

The Ferguson that was found to have a super racist police culture after they did have all the facts? That Ferguson?

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

or him and his DOJ speaking out against Ferguson without having all the facts which just incited more violence.

 

 

The Ferguson that was found to have a super racist police culture after they did have all the facts? That Ferguson?

 

Here we go again.............while that was found out which was a good thing Darren Wilson, who acted correctly by the way, had his career ended and his life ruined due to the response to that whole situation.

[Landlord]

 

 

or him and his DOJ speaking out against Ferguson without having all the facts which just incited more violence.

 

 

The Ferguson that was found to have a super racist police culture after they did have all the facts? That Ferguson?

 

Here we go again.............while that was found out which was a good thing Darren Wilson, who acted correctly by the way, had his career ended and his life ruined due to the response to that whole situation.

 

 

 

I agree.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

 

 

or him and his DOJ speaking out against Ferguson without having all the facts which just incited more violence.

 

 

The Ferguson that was found to have a super racist police culture after they did have all the facts? That Ferguson?

 

Here we go again.............while that was found out which was a good thing Darren Wilson, who acted correctly by the way, had his career ended and his life ruined due to the response to that whole situation.

 

 

 

I agree.

 

Good god the world has ended!!!???

[TGHusker]

 

 

 

And people wonder why this country is divided.

Thanks, Obama.

 

(Not kidding)

 

Obama didn't divide this country. People upset that a Black man was elected president divided this country.

 

Not kidding.

 

I don't think the reason the country is divided has anything to do with Obama one way or the other. I think it's divided because there is nothing called "honest disagreement" in politics anymore. Political opponents aren't considered to be honorable, decent people having honest, differing opinions; they are considered horrible human beings who must be destroyed. In my opinion this started during the 92 Bush/Clinton campaign and hasn't stopped since.

 

I agree. We demonize the other side instead of trying to understand. I think most want to solve the same difficult problems but have different means of doing so. Those different methods are necessarily the problem, but when tied to money and power, then they become a problem. In other words, If I happen to agree as a conservative wt someone's liberal idea to fix a problem, I then empower that liberal position - that is seen as dangerous. And it is the money and the associate power that is the problem. Esp when good people, with good motives find themselves on each side of the partisan divide. A lot more could be accomplished if law makers and presidents could check their need for power (personal or party) at the front door before going into the conference room.

[Saunders]

 

There's a lesson to be learned for every stunned liberal out there. And that's that you can't change someone's opinion by insulting and shaming them.

I mean... wow.

 

The term "liberal" has been used as an epithet for the past 20 years. Right here on this board. It's accusatory, a blame, intended as an insult, even to people who are not liberal in their views.

 

The only way a person can't see that is if they don't want to.

 

And this... olive branch? I guess...? is started off with an I-told-you-so to "every stunned liberal out there."

 

 

 

And people wonder why this country is divided.

 

This isn't an olive branch. I did not vote for Trump. Nobody really expected this outcome (except Michael Moore I guess).

 

Maybe I should have said "democrat" instead, but regardless the point stands. Liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, whatever. They're all used as insults by people when discussing politics because too many people are more interested in winning than understanding.

[knapplc]

It is possible I completely missed the point.

[zoogs]

If you're comfortable sharing, saunders, for whom did you vote?

[Saunders]

I think that's a good post, saunders. There's a reckoning coming to the left, and it's not clear how it will be settled. Yours is as good an argument as any, at this point.

 

I can only hope that they will do this productively -- and sanely. We are worse for the wear without it.

 

At the same time, I do agree with all the counterpoints knapp has been making. The way forward is unclear to me.

 

Honestly, I don't even care about a reckoning, or comeuppance.

 

I think way to many people simply dismissed anyone who supported Trump as "insert label here" instead of understanding why they were voting for him in the first place. And no, not because they're all racists. I've seen way too many people I know on Facebook dismiss those voters because they "lack empathy" and "only cared for themselves" go on a complete tirade against anyone who voted for him. And the Trump supporters are way too smug in their victory, including many of my own family members (don't even get me started).

 

I'm still stunned at what transpired, and unsure of what's to come.

[Saunders]

If you're comfortable sharing, saunders, for whom did you vote?

No prob. My ideal election was Bernie v Rand Paul. TBH, I was so disheartened after the primaries, that I considered not voting at all. But the local elections and ballot initiatives were too important to me. I went with a mix of R & D candidates for local elections, and voted to retain a few judges, and release a few others.

 

I wasn't voting for Trump under any circumstances (thanks RNC), so I went back and forth before ultimately deciding to vote for Gary Johnson. I was under no illusions that he would win anything, it I was hoping for the 5% number to be hit so that we could begin a viable third party.

 

Honestly, based on polling and projections, I expected a fairly comfortable Clinton win.