"Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays"

[BigRedBuster]

But I don't understand what the argument is.

[zoogs]

I mean, read the thread. From Enhance:

 

Actually, my intent for creating this thread was not because I had seen people get upset about being told "Merry Christmas." I created it because of the following quote -

 

"I'm a good Christian," the Republican presidential front-runner said. "If I become president, we're gonna be saying Merry Christmas at every store ... You can leave happy holidays at the corner." - Donald Trump

This is about the victim complex spurring on the 'war on Christmas' narrative, and the weak arguments that feed into it. It's about the obstinate suspicion that surrounds the usage of "happy holidays" and how the superciliousness towards those who consider that important is justified.

 

Perhaps this is the best way to understand it for those who don't: Christmas, the religious holiday, isn't under attack. But the non-religious celebration of this time of year, that's no less special to people like me than Christmas is to you. This celebration is under attack, IMO, with every insistence that it's not part of the season at all, and every expression of hostility towards stores or schools or whatever that make an effort to be inclusive.

 

Again, I don't believe most posters here actually share in any of that. But a number do seem to buy into all the arguments that are used to prop it up, and those are certainly worth dissecting, IMO.

[JJ Husker]

I mean, read the thread. From Enhance:

Actually, my intent for creating this thread was not because I had seen people get upset about being told "Merry Christmas." I created it because of the following quote -"I'm a good Christian," the Republican presidential front-runner said. "If I become president, we're gonna be saying Merry Christmas at every store ... You can leave happy holidays at the corner." - Donald Trump

This is about the victim complex spurring on the 'war on Christmas' narrative, and the weak arguments that feed into it. It's about the obstinate suspicion that surrounds the usage of "happy holidays" and how the superciliousness towards those who consider that important is justified.Perhaps this is the best way to understand it for those who don't: Christmas, the religious holiday, isn't under attack. But the non-religious celebration of this time of year, that's no less special to people like me than Christmas is to you. This celebration is under attack, IMO, with every insistence that it's not part of the season at all, and every expression of hostility towards stores or schools or whatever that make an effort to be inclusive.Again, I don't believe most posters here actually share in any of that. But a number do seem to buy into all the arguments that are used to prop it up, and those are certainly worth dissecting, IMO.

Now we may be getting somewhere.

 

I certainly don't want to take anything from you or others and I feel you have as much right to enjoy the season as anyone does. But I am struggling to understand exactly what it is you feel is under attack. There is Christmas (Christian-religous), Hannakuh (Jewish-religious), Kwanzaa (African American-secular) and New Years (secular). I apologize if I have left any off the list. I understand celebrating one or more of these individual holidays but I don't quite understand not observing any of the individual holidays but wanting to instead claim "Happy Holidays" as an all inclusive greeting that somehow transcends any of the individual holidays.

 

If we eliminate the 4 holidays mentioned, is there still a "Happy Holidays" to be concerned about?

 

I really, really, really don't care what stores do or what people choose to say as a greeting. But how does "Happy Holidays" exist if not on the basis of these other 4 holidays? Can or would it even exist without Christmas.....without Hannakuh? I'm trying to see this from a secular viewpoint and I'm struggling with it.

[zoogs]

It's the holidays because the government has decided it is the holidays. Sure, that has basis in these major holidays already falling on this time of year, but that makes it no less a celebration for the folk who don't explicitly observe one of the religious holidays.

 

but I don't quite understand not observing any of the individual holidays

Again, this has never been suggested. What has been suggested is that treating this as a holiday season is inclusive to everything. Treating this as Christmas season is not. What you observe privately is one thing.

 

I'm trying to speak a language of victimhood that I think is likely to be understood. When you look at the rather militant insistence on the public expression of Christmas only -- again, examples abound -- how is that not going on the offensive, with the aim of achieving cultural dominance at the exclusion of everything else?

 

This is my holiday season, too; I've always felt just as much a part of it as anyone who celebrated either Xmas, or Hannukah, in whatever way. I'm not a guest in your religion's special season, and I'd push back against any attempt to view it that way. I do think this time of year presents a great opportunity to transcend any individual holiday in the name of a really common, kind, sharing holiday spirit.

 

And honestly, I'm starting to have to watch myself a little when I do say Merry Christmas to people. It's been appropriated in an ugly and threatening way by a few folks on the fringe, and I want to always make sure I'm clear that I'm not giving even a hint of "...and if you don't like it, screw your fragility because this is OUR season" subtext.

[JJ Husker]

Thank you. That helps me understand it from a secular viewpoint. It's just always been plain old Christmas to me and, from my viewpoint anyway, Happy Holidays was added or adopted to help make it more inclusive of all the various celebrations around the same time.

 

BTW, I do acknowledge that there is that element that says Merry Christmas in a snide, this is only our holiday sort of way. I detest that attitude. Maybe I was slow on the uptake in this thread. If that is the people we have been talking past each other about, then I agree with you.

[zoogs]

I'm very happy to find agreement, JJ!

 

Yeah, if it's not that...and I feel like the whole 'war on Xmas' apparatus has only sprung up relatively recently. I'm not religious, but to me anyway this has always been known as 'Christmastime.' And I celebrate it as such, Santa hats and gifts exchanges and so on

[Enhance]

But I don't understand what the argument is.

zoogs did a pretty incredible job relaying some of the major parts of the discussion. I'd read through his recent posts with JJ.

 

I don't mean any disrespect by the following statement, but it's all in the first two pages. If you have specific questions or points to debate about what's been said then I would be more than happy to engage, but otherwise, I think most of your questions can be answered in the earlier parts of the thread.

[Enhance]

Well folks, because we all know Huskerboard is a perfect depiction of the world around us, 90% of you say you don't care whether people say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays.

 

I'll mail this out to Trump right away and inform him that nobody really gives a f*** so stop worrying about it.