"Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays"

[zoogs]

Profiling?

 

For goodness sake, it's everyone's holiday season -- including, but not exclusive to Christmas. Why refuse to recognize that?

 

It'd be like having everyone around you knowing that it's Christmas and that you're celebrating Christmas, but saying "Happy Chairman Mao's Birthday" instead -- or something.

 

It is not hard to recognize that this is a holiday for everybody. It is not the 'highest well-wishing' you can think of to recognize that, ignore it, and only share the celebration of your own. Is that valuing their being, or only to the extent that they will recognize the preeminence of your religion in this shared season of happiness?

 

When "Merry Christmas" carries with it a "I insist on not saying anything else, and you're fragile if you don't cheerfully oblige this", it ceases to be well intended at all. I don't think it applies to the vast majority of Christmas wishes, but for sure there's a small segment of these that are veiled challenges, however unintended. I can see why some people would not react well to that, especially if they celebrate something very different instead.

[TAKODA]

Profiling?For goodness sake, it's everyone's holiday season -- including, but not exclusive to Christmas. Why refuse to recognize that?It'd be like having everyone around you knowing that it's Christmas and that you're celebrating Christmas, but saying "Happy Chairman Mao's Birthday" instead -- or something.It is not hard to recognize that this is a holiday for everybody. It is not the 'highest well-wishing' you can think of to recognize that, ignore it, and only share the celebration of your own. Is that valuing their being, or only to the extent that they will recognize the preeminence of your religion in this shared season of happiness?When "Merry Christmas" carries with it a "I insist on not saying anything else, and you're fragile if you don't cheerfully oblige this", it ceases to be well intended at all. I don't think it applies to the vast majority of Christmas wishes, but for sure there's a small segment of these that are veiled challenges, however unintended. I can see why some people would not react well to that, especially if they celebrate something very different instead.

Zoogs, it is Christmas season for everyone, you are right! I am not asking anyone to get down on their knees and pray, give thanks to the Lord. I am not telling them how to celebrate, when to celebrate, or even to celebrate, what they can eat or should eat, I am making a gesture that I believe is proper from my perspective. Why is it, that I would have to change my wording, when dealing with some people or groups, that celebrate in some other fashion? Can you or they not recognize that by me saying what I feel, is not done to mock them, but just the opposite, because it comes from the heart of doing what I believe is just. Can't you or they recognize, that by me wishing a Merry Christmas, that I am not looking at them/you, with a differnt lens. Yes, it's my perceived value, but take it for what it means coming from me, rather than an offensive assault on your/someone's rights.

 

Jeezus!

 

Edit ~ by the way, "Happy Chairman Mao's Birthday"

[zoogs]

It's not Christmas season for everyone, it's the biggest holiday season in the U.S. for everyone. For some people, it is centered around Christmas. For others, it's not. You can accommodate those others, or refuse to, in your choice of wording.

 

I suppose that depends on whether you want to wish those who might be observing the holiday season in other ways warm celebrations -- or not.

 

I can see where you're coming from. Only, don't confuse such a stance for being inclusive. Again, I have zero problem with Merry Christmas and I use it quite often myself. I just can't see how being inclusive also is something that some Christians find impossible to do.

[JJ Husker]

It's not Christmas season for everyone, it's the biggest holiday season in the U.S. for everyone. For some people, it is centered around Christmas. For others, it's not. You can accommodate those others, or refuse to, in your choice of wording.I suppose that depends on whether you want to wish those who might be observing the holiday season in other ways warm celebrations -- or not.I can see where you're coming from. Only, don't confuse such a stance for being inclusive. Again, I have zero problem with Merry Christmas and I use it quite often myself. I just can't see how being inclusive also is something that some Christians find impossible to do.

So, to be clear, is preferring to say "Merry Christmas" somehow not accommodating others? How is it not inclusive?

 

You're sending a mixed message. You say you use Merry Christmas quite often yourself but you have also been insinuating that people who say that are trying to project some religious connotation or that they are not accommodating others or that they are hijacking the season for Christians only or some such things. I'm really confused what the point is or why some here seem to have a problem with those of us who usually use Merry Christmas. Seems you and a few others are advocating for Happy Holidays.

[zoogs]

Refusing to say happy holidays is very plainly not inclusive, right?

 

This should not be confusing, except to those really intent on playing up the look at how outrageously byzantine modern-day PC demands are angle. Or those keen on seeing everything as an attack.

 

This is a holiday season, of which Christmas is one part. Celebrating Christmas is a normal part of the season. So is celebrating the fact that many holidays are occurring, and it's a national holiday for everybody. It is possible to do both, and choosing not to recognize the latter at all is worthy of criticism, IMO. Doing so while claiming only to embody the warmest, kindest of holiday spirits ... that's probably what gets the most argument from me.

[JJ Husker]

Refusing to say happy holidays is very plainly not inclusive, right?This should not be confusing, except to those really intent on playing up the look at how outrageously byzantine modern-day PC demands are angle. Or those keen on seeing everything as an attack.This is a holiday season, of which Christmas is one part. Celebrating Christmas is a normal part of the season. So is celebrating the fact that many holidays are occurring, and it's a national holiday for everybody. It is possible to do both, and choosing not to recognize the latter at all is worthy of criticism, IMO. Doing so while claiming only to embody the warmest, kindest of holiday spirits ... that's probably what gets the most argument from me.

Who's refusing to say Happy Holidays? I've said that, I just prefer to and usually say Merry Christmas.

 

Seems you're reading way more into some of these comments than is healthy.

Is there something wrong with some of us preferring to say Merry Christmas?

Are there times I should not say Merry Christmas and instead should use Happy Holidays?

 

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to figure out if I'm somehow doing it wrong in your opinion.

[Landlord]

So, to be clear, is preferring to say "Merry Christmas" somehow not accommodating others?

 

 

NO. Dear God. No. That is not what is being said.

 

Preferring to say Merry Christmas is perfectly fine.

 

Refusing to say anything other than Merry Christmas as a sort of passive-aggressive protest is being an a-hole.

 

Why is this thread 2 pages?

[zoogs]

Let's not simply erase all the posts railing on these oversensitive strawpeople who didn't get the Christmas gifts they wanted so now they're living oversensitive, profiling, fragile lives with one sweep of the hand. That was the reason for this discussion, right?

 

I think I've covered several times over why I see these arguments, or the complaints about what businesses do, etc, as flawed. If you do, also, then clearly we agree!

[JJ Husker]

 

So, to be clear, is preferring to say "Merry Christmas" somehow not accommodating others?

 

 

NO. Dear God. No. That is not what is being said.

 

Preferring to say Merry Christmas is perfectly fine.

 

Refusing to say anything other than Merry Christmas as a sort of passive-aggressive protest is being an a-hole.

 

Why is this thread 2 pages?

Because nobody wants to talk about our upcoming bowl game???

 

Sorry if I'm being dense but it seemed to me like a few people were trying to say I was being that ahole because I usually say Merry Christmas. I was just trying to determine if I should be doing something different to be more accomodating or inclusive. I figured those accusations were being leveled at somebody actually participating here and not just at some faceless others. It kind of felt like it might be me since I'm one of the few who has admitted to primarily using Merry Christmas and have stated that Happy Holidays doesn't feel right for me to use. How's a guy supposed to know if he's being perceived as an ahole or not if people dance around the subject?

 

Zoogs won't come out and say it and he's apparently had enough, so I guess I'll never know.

[Landlord]

You're 100% fine to primarily say Merry Christmas.

 

 

All of the accusations about this debate are said towards faceless others. None of us have ever experienced any of these imaginary scenarios. Others have (non-white, non-christian, maybe non-americans), but we're all just talking about make believe issues for us personally.

[cornstar]

You're 100% fine to primarily say Merry Christmas.

 

 

All of the accusations about this debate are said towards faceless others. None of us have ever experienced any of these imaginary scenarios. Others have (non-white, non-christian, maybe non-americans), but we're all just talking about make believe issues for us personally.

Oh how rich.

 

L

 

F@#$ing

 

O

 

L

[TAKODA]

I guess I am the a-hole mentioned above, not because I refuse to say Happy Holidays, because I do this in my position of vocation, but because my sincere good tidings of saying "Merry Christmas" to those I really do wish a Merry Christmas to, is obviously causing some people irrefutable mental anguish.

 

I wonder how productive the people of the US would be if they took all the energy they spend finding something to complain about, and do something that makes a difference?

 

Merry Christmas to all those who will accept it as it is, and Happy Holidays to the balance of you!

[Moiraine]

I wonder how productive the people of the US would be if they took all the energy they spend finding something to complain about, and do something that makes a difference?

 

Almost no one complains about this.

[Moiraine]

I had another thought when thinking about this topic and hopefully people have an open mind to hear me out. Again - I don't give a crap about any of this stuff. But I also don't mind discussing it.

 

 

Swear words. I'm gonna be referring to the F word, but I grew up in a conservative town with a Christian mom so some other offensive words were: suck, pissed off, sh#t, crap, ass.

 

Ok, so I was thinking about the F word and how it offends people. Logically, to me the F word is just a sound our mouth makes, and sometimes it's not used with ill intent. For instance if someone sees a flying saucer, they might say "What the f*** is that?"

 

They're not saying it to be mean to anyone. It's just a sound to let people know something crazy is going on.

 

However, I almost never use the F word. Even when my intent is completely good/innocent, I don't use it because I don't want to offend anyone. I don't even use it in casual harmless ways. I'm keeping everyone else's feelings in mind, even though f*** is just a f***ing sound, people. Growing up I didn't use any of the other above words either. I still don't say sh#t or ass very often in real life. I probably use them online a little more often.

 

The point I'm trying to make with this f***ing sh#t is people generally refrain from swearing so as not to offend people, even if their intent with the word is not negative in any way. We take that as a completely normal part of life.

 

So it's not in any f***ing way weird or wrong or an attack on Christmas for businesses to do something similar for people of other religions by having their employees say Happy F***ing Holidays instead of Merry Sh*tting Christmas.

 

People get offended over the words sh#t f#*k crap and ass and that's equally as silly as getting offended over people saying Merry Christmas.

[zoogs]

We're seeing variations of the same specious arguments being offered:

 

1) "It's so complicated to figure out what to say." No, it's not. Feel free to celebrate Christmas. Happy Holidays covers all the holidays.

 

2) "I will only say Merry Christmas, but that is to wish people well in general." No. You're saying Merry Christmas to wish people Merry Christmas. It's about as offensive as saying "Happy Easter", which is to say, not at all. It's the ignoring everything else going on this time of year part that is the issue. When your stated policy is to greet people as if the non-Christian elements of the holiday season are not extant, then at least see that this is what it is -- and ask for purpose this policy is necessary.

 

3) "People who object have this ridiculous mental anguish over this". No. They don't. They get along fine.

 

4) "This season is all about the birth of the son of Christ." That's the thing. It's this way for some people, but it's not true in general for all Americans. And I think it's very reasonable to have a conversation about how our language and culture can reflect that, rather than sticking to customs that reinforce one aspect of it only. It's not a zero sum game, and Christianity is not lost if it does not dominate cultural practice.

 

I don't believe most of the people here on this board actually believe in all this gobbledegook, but these are the same arguments used to spin up the "War Against Christmas" agitations, and as such I think the arguments deserve all the critical attention they're getting.