The Top Fifth

[RedDenver]

Here's an academic paper from 2003 examining what the optimal estate tax limit and rate would be. I've only skimmed through the paper, so I'm not entirely clear on what they mean by "optimal".

[zoogs]

Thomas Piketty! He’s a well-known economics Professor who has written a lot on capital and inherence; here's another one: http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/PikettyZucman2014HID.pdf

 

His work is focused on wealth concentration and distribution. Perhaps best known for “Capital in the Twenty-First Century” (2013), which likely draws on the work you linked.

 

Well-known Communist rag The Economist has some cogent summaries of his work: http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2014/03/inequality

 

The key point is that if wealth is concentrated (as it is increasingly becoming) and if the return on capital is high enough, then the wealth becomes self-perpetuating. […]

 

Finally, what should we think about all this? Many people pay lip service to meritocracy but get very het up about inheritance taxes, or death taxes as they like to call them. It is often said that inheritance taxes represent double taxation but in many cases that isn't true; for middle-class people, their biggest asset is usually their home on which capital gains tax is not paid. Similarly, business owners only pay capital gains tax when they sell; by definition, if they are passing a company on to their heirs, they have not sold. […]

 

If one assumes that an economy functions best if the most talented people rise to the top, then inherited wealth rigs the deck.

 

[RedDenver]

This is more about the minimum wage, but I didn't find a thread about that, so I'm putting this here.

 

Rent Is Affordable to Low-Wage Workers in Exactly 12 U.S. Counties

[zoogs]

Rigged: https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/news/rigged-forced-into-debt-worked-past-exhaustion-left-with-nothing/

 

Extensive investigative reporting from USA Today. Wow. (Also not completely related)

 

Talavera was a modern-day indentured servant. And there are hundreds, likely thousands more, still on the road, hauling containers for trucking companies that move goods for America’s most beloved retailers, from Costco to Target to Home Depot.

[RedDenver]

I didn't see a better thread, so I'll put this here. More research into the growing wealth inequality and how the wealthy are getting wealthier. From the article:

 

This is not just another chart. The data it uses directly answers conservative attempts to claim that middle-class incomes really have grown substantially, and that the rich aren’t taking all the economic gains. The conservatives argued that the standard data used to illustrate inequality is incomplete; Saez, Piketty, and Zucman have completed it, and demonstrated that income growth has been quite low for the middle class and very unequally distributed between them and the wealthy.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

It's not true for many.

 

But with money comes power. And if 5% of the wealthy are a$$hole$, they stand out. They stand out more than other people who are a$$hole$ because they have the means to negatively affect a lot more people than do the non-wealthy a$$hole$.

 

Why are they a$$hole$? Because they don't want to part with their money? Hell, I wouldn't want to neither....

 

 

Wealth redistribution is a joke, and taxation is theft (turns into a bald eagle and flies away).

[teachercd]

Gene Simmons of KISS had a great quote...he was asked about musicians today...he said something like "It amuses me when musicians today say they are not doing it for the money and that they are embarrassed by the amount of money they make...those those musicians I want to offer my help...for every dollar you are embarrassed about please send a check, to Gene Simmons, because I like money and I want more of it...and I want to help you not feel embarrassed."

[Landlord]

It's not so much that they're a$$hole$, but they're unequipped to deal with their standing in the world.

 

 

 

Money is power. Sometimes people know how to wield it well, through training and earning and time and experience. But that's not even close to all of the time. Imagine a kid that goes through driver's ed and has their parents with them as they drive the family minivan, versus a 13 year old who all of the sudden gets behind the wheel of a Ferrari.

[teachercd]

I have been around some very very wealthy families for a very very long time. I can tell you this

 

Kids of rich parents are a$$hole$ as often as kids with middle class parents and poor parents.

 

Also, most of the really rich families I have known have been nothing but kind, caring and giving. Not all, but most.

[B.B. Hemingway]

It's not so much that they're a$$hole$, but they're unequipped to deal with their standing in the world.

 

 

 

Money is power. Sometimes people know how to wield it well, through training and earning and time and experience. But that's not even close to all of the time. Imagine a kid that goes through driver's ed and has their parents with them as they drive the family minivan, versus a 13 year old who all of the sudden gets behind the wheel of a Ferrari.

 

 

Explain unequipped. What's expected of them?

 

Philanthropy is not required.

[RedDenver]

 

It's not true for many.

 

But with money comes power. And if 5% of the wealthy are a$$hole$, they stand out. They stand out more than other people who are a$$hole$ because they have the means to negatively affect a lot more people than do the non-wealthy a$$hole$.

 

Why are they a$$hole$? Because they don't want to part with their money? Hell, I wouldn't want to neither....

 

 

Wealth redistribution is a joke, and taxation is theft (turns into a bald eagle and flies away).

 

You think less than 5% of the wealth are a$$hole$? Or less than 5% of any group?

[B.B. Hemingway]

 

 

It's not true for many.

 

But with money comes power. And if 5% of the wealthy are a$$hole$, they stand out. They stand out more than other people who are a$$hole$ because they have the means to negatively affect a lot more people than do the non-wealthy a$$hole$.

 

Why are they a$$hole$? Because they don't want to part with their money? Hell, I wouldn't want to neither....

 

 

Wealth redistribution is a joke, and taxation is theft (turns into a bald eagle and flies away).

 

You think less than 5% of the wealth are a$$hole$? Or less than 5% of any group?

 

 

I know some rich a$$hole$, and some bitter/poor a$$hole$....

[zoogs]

Give this a read, guys. I thought it was quite insightful and reflected the tenor of our competing arguments pretty well: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/10/liberals-are-terrible-at-arguing-with-conservatives-heres-how-they-can-get-better/

[B.B. Hemingway]

^ Interesting stuff. Though, no matter which angle it's argued from, the death tax is indefensible

[zoogs]

Well, actually, it's mentioned as an example here. It's one thing to look at it purely as a matter of principle and say "the results are how things must be." From an outcomes-based perspective, it's an important policy instrument.