Thanks, Watson...

[zoogs]

Production is certainly a big problem, Hercules, I am talking about the stipulation that the offense is multiple and that is a bad thing.

 

It's like back in the day when 'stubborn offensive approach' and 'square peg round hole' were the bad keywords. Today it is flexibility and lack of 'identity.' That's the perception, not reality issue I am talking about. Even if I were to agree that Watson needed to go, the next guy we bring in has still got to be flexible and multiple, regardless of what the core principles he thrives on are.

 

For production, I would point to BIG liabilities on the staff at the OL and WR spots. I don't think it's a coincidence that OL has shown little ability to deal with blows to its depth, and that we have had so many hyped up WR recruits come in...and go out...fizzling. When you have nothing here, it is a problem. Barney had our OL going ok at the start of the year, because of some outside help IIRC and a change in approach, but we're seeing more struggles lately and depth lacking there.

 

This is where our problems lie.

 

Although if you're going to look at any game from '09 to include there, I would say sweeping and unusual injury problems were a culprit to, such as ridiculous injuries to key cogs throughout the entire OL, a bad injury to our only viable QB, and lingering issues severely hampering our RB and TE (as well as true freshman RB3 turned RB2 out with that broken foot).

 

One last note, conservative approaches that rely on defense to wins games, to an extent, is hurting our production numbers as well, but not our chance to win. That was not the case with this last game, but it certainly was last year and at times this year (Missouri after Helu's last TD).

[mmmtodd]

i see what youre saying zoogies, really do...

 

but the obvious answer is that shawn watson is not bo pelini's yang. its not working.

[JTrain]

The top OCs in the game today: what are their core identities? I thought after Callahan what we wanted was a guy who was adaptive to the roster and flexible, rather than square peg, round hole, WCO or bust.

 

But anyway. I think you basically have a few glitzy offenses that have some "face guys" associated with them: Rich Rod, Paul Johnson, Air Leach...aside from that, your top OCs like the Malzahn, or the guys at OU and Texas, or even Urban Meyer who is going with Brantley now, they don't have that, and it's not a bad thing. We had a very knowledgeable user on here, brophog I think was the username, who explained in great detail why any offense NEEDS to be multiple and complex to combat any modern day defense that can also give you so many different looks and hit you so many different ways. And while multiple is some of the bad lingo of the day among our fanbase, the reality is that even the guys with core "identities" are extremely multiple and that is why they succeed.

 

Fans tend to think of them as "they do one core thing and do it well" when in reality, they run a lot of different looks and attack defenses a lot of different ways, using certain principles. But for simplicity sake, fans will choose to just identify say, RichRod as the 'spread offense' attack, when in truth that means so many different things it can hardly really be called a core identity.

 

We are similar. Watson's core principles are still rooted in the WCO, I believe, but we use those principles and are able to adapt them based on our personnel. We saw maybe a tiny bit of zone read with Joe Ganz (he scored a TD off of it against CU in '08 I believe), but that wasn't going to be our bread and butter. It is pretty much our core offense now though. And TO's offenses evolved a lot over the many years he coached as well, from more open passing attacks to a power-based game that was adapted to his personnel.

 

I think this is another case where we are targeting an area that is deficient in perception only, because we are trying to target something. JMHO.

 

I didn't say offenses shouldn't be multiple or have the ability to adapt to the defense. Of course they should. But you have to have some basic vision about what you want to do well and build off that. I don't think it's a perception issue. Paul Johnson may have 15000 different option plays, but the fundamentals do not change, regardless of opponent or personnel. Playcalling can be adjusted to beat different defenses or cater to certain talents, but the core remains in tact. This was true for Osborne and Spurrier, and is true today with Johnson, Meyer, Kelly, etc. I don't think Watson has enough of a core to build on. (Not that this is his only problem.)

 

Regardless of all of this, though, we have this fact: Watson's offensive production (which is what he ultimately must be judged on), has been average at best his entire career. We can argue the details till the cows come home, but it doesn't change the results.

[zoogs]

Fair enough, JTrain, but I think the "multiple, but with fundamentals" applies here too. It's just a lot less recognizable without some buzzwords like "WCO" (being a bad word with us these days) or "Triple Option", you know? The only real changes we see with the offense is simplification from the Callahan days. Then again I am no expert

 

i see what youre saying zoogies, really do...

 

but the obvious answer is that shawn watson is not bo pelini's yang. its not working.

 

Actuall, I have it on good authority that Bo sings sweetly to Shawn every morning in practice, "O Wats, you are my yang, I'll be your ying..." It is quite a beautiful pairing.

[Hercules]

Production is certainly a big problem, Hercules, I am talking about the stipulation that the offense is multiple and that is a bad thing.

 

It's like back in the day when 'stubborn offensive approach' and 'square peg round hole' were the bad keywords. Today it is flexibility and lack of 'identity.' That's the perception, not reality issue I am talking about. Even if I were to agree that Watson needed to go, the next guy we bring in has still got to be flexible and multiple, regardless of what the core principles he thrives on are.

 

For production, I would point to BIG liabilities on the staff at the OL and WR spots. I don't think it's a coincidence that OL has shown little ability to deal with blows to its depth, and that we have had so many hyped up WR recruits come in...and go out...fizzling. When you have nothing here, it is a problem. Barney had our OL going ok at the start of the year, because of some outside help IIRC and a change in approach, but we're seeing more struggles lately and depth lacking there.

 

This is where our problems lie.

 

Although if you're going to look at any game from '09 to include there, I would say sweeping and unusual injury problems were a culprit to, such as ridiculous injuries to key cogs throughout the entire OL, a bad injury to our only viable QB, and lingering issues severely hampering our RB and TE (as well as true freshman RB3 turned RB2 out with that broken foot).

 

One last note, conservative approaches that rely on defense to wins games, to an extent, is hurting our production numbers as well, but not our chance to win. That was not the case with this last game, but it certainly was last year and at times this year (Missouri after Helu's last TD).

 

Everybody has to be flexible and multiple. Osborne's teams were flexible and multiple. I don't think those terms conflict with having an "identity." Problem is, right now, our offense's identity is Martinez. Without him, there is no identity.

 

OL, WR have to get better. But I think across the board, the offensive staff has to either simplify schemes or get better at teaching execution. Frankly, I think it's the latter. Pelini's defense is plenty complex - but right now, they're miles and miles and miles ahead at teaching their kids execution.

 

We need teachers like that on the offensive side of the ball, at every position. I mean, the growth on the defensive side of the ball throughout each season has been staggering, just incredible. Our offense, without Martinez, is at exactly the same place as last year.

 

Anyways, it's year 3 of Pelini's tenure. The staff has been together for that entire time, but the discrepancy between the defensive staff and the offensive staff is huge. I think it's time for changes.

 

And I think Bo's gotta be pretty close to that point too. As loyal as he is to his assistants, I just can't imagine he's going to keep putting up with these ridiculous losses where the defense does everything anybody could possibly expect of them, and the offense underperforms. He needs to go find teachers that are the offensive counterpoint to his defensive staff. I don't think Watson is that. If he were, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

[kansas husker]

I've exhaustd myself defending Wats, but I'm ging to give it one last shot. This season he has consistantly drawn up good game plans, and has put the players in a position to win when they exicute. That is the OC's job, is to call plays and draw up plans that put the players in a position to win. I just feel so lucky that I am on a board that is so full of people who can evalutate and OC better than Tom Osborne.

[Hercules]

I've exhaustd myself defending Wats, but I'm ging to give it one last shot. This season he has consistantly drawn up good game plans, and has put the players in a position to win when they exicute. That is the OC's job, is to call plays and draw up plans that put the players in a position to win. I just feel so lucky that I am on a board that is so full of people who can evalutate and OC better than Tom Osborne.

 

If Tom Osborne was our offensive coordinator this year, we'd have won every game by at least 3 touchdowns.

[mmmtodd]

I've exhaustd myself defending Wats, but I'm ging to give it one last shot. This season he has consistantly drawn up good game plans, and has put the players in a position to win when they exicute. That is the OC's job, is to call plays and draw up plans that put the players in a position to win. I just feel so lucky that I am on a board that is so full of people who can evalutate and OC better than Tom Osborne.

 

 

and conversely, it might be a tad more complicated than that.

[bshirt]

I've exhaustd myself defending Wats, but I'm ging to give it one last shot. This season he has consistantly drawn up good game plans, and has put the players in a position to win when they exicute. That is the OC's job, is to call plays and draw up plans that put the players in a position to win. I just feel so lucky that I am on a board that is so full of people who can evalutate and OC better than Tom Osborne.

 

 

TO will forget more about being a successful OC in any random five minutes than SW will ever learn.

 

You have no freakin clue what TO "really" thinks about SW. I highly, highly doubt TO thinks SW is great with the dismal results he's had (FAR worse results than TO ever did for 25 years). SW/Gilmore were kept to keep some kind of offensive continuity as the defense was horrible. Ok, the defense is fixed now.

 

It's 100% Bo's call and if he wants the change TO isn't going to step in his way one iota.

[zoogs]

Yes, we all like to believe that TO is on our side of any debate.

 

Problem is, right now, our offense's identity is Martinez. Without him, there is no identity.

 

I disagree with this point, Hercules. Our offense was built around Martinez, but he was by no means the identity. Lee would take the offense in a different direction, but it would still be our offense. Obviously the #3 guy is not really counted on to have any semblance of our offensive identity after this last game. You could say that of most schools and their #3 guys, though.

[TheCheshireCat]

Watson has no clue what to do when Martinez can't score 5 rushing TDs a game.

[95huskers]

Thanks Shawn Watson. Thank you so much for fooling us into believing that we would have an explosive offense this year. Thank you for not developing quality depth behind Taylor. Thanks for predicating every single damn part of your offense off the zone read. Enough shotgun bullsh#t. Line up and maul somebody.

 

This isnt watson's offense. He did not want to run the zone read all the time. bo was so enamored with tmarts legs against his defense, he though tmart would be unstoppable. this is why we are running this offense

[wilber24]

Thanks Shawn Watson. Thank you so much for fooling us into believing that we would have an explosive offense this year. Thank you for not developing quality depth behind Taylor. Thanks for predicating every single damn part of your offense off the zone read. Enough shotgun bullsh#t. Line up and maul somebody.

 

This isnt watson's offense. He did not want to run the zone read all the time. bo was so enamored with tmarts legs against his defense, he though tmart would be unstoppable. this is why we are running this offense

Well, guess what, Martinezs legs are gone for the year. Now what!!

[Enhance]

For the longest time, I didn't want to get on Watson's case. In 2008, he had a pretty good go around running HIS offense. That said, his offenses' performances have been so fickle and inconsistent that I really don't know what to do about it.

 

Bo is too good of a defensive coach to be let go. With him at the helm, we will be in almost every game. He just needs to find an offensive staff more apt to the task of creating a strong offensive unit. Our offensive line issues are the prime example as to why our offense struggles. This unit returned all but one starter from last year and really only lost one player for the season in Smith. Why have the struggled the last three weeks? They haven't had a good performance since Missouri.

[gobiggergoredder]

To reiterate: QB development has actually been pretty impressive...from Ganz's jump in Year 3, to his even bigger jump in Year 4 (both with Watson as OC)...then Lee, who faded last year but he had a throwing arm injury and has been known to be a smart player making all the right reads...then Taylor, talk about impressive, getting some passing development there.

 

 

 

If I was Joe Ganz I would kick anyone in the nuts that said they developed me. He was left to rot on the bench so that one guy could stink out loud. By the way, the offense was horrid too! He was only put in because they had to.

 

The one thing I will give him credit for is that unlike Cam Newton's dad, Watson was able to use Ganz to get a solid gig.