"Not a true Christian"

[Peoriahusker]

I left the church after Ron Brown came to speak to us at my former church. He spent a good 30 minutes on how homosexuality was evil, blah blah blah.

 

Left and never looked back. That was one of that many reasons.

 

I sure hope you re-consider..did he explain why he believes that? As a Christian I do understand his point but would hope you are told where that thought process comes from.

 

As for the op's original question, True Christian is kind of a week set of words. I do believe the bible is an accurate document and as a Christian I must live via that book. Doesn't mean I do a great job but that's one of the great things about being saved. God has forgiven us and gave his son to pay the price. He's the only one who knows who is a true Christian outside of that individual. I do disagree withthe thought that no one knows if they truly are a Christian. The bible tells us if we believe and ask him to come into our heart and forgive us then we are saved. However, there should be a transformation and you should have the holy spirit tugging at you when you are sinning or drifting away otherwise maybe it wasn't a true conversion ie your heart wasn't in the right place....this is a really tough concept and difficult to talk through in a post....if anyone truly wants to do some research on the bibles accuracy etc you should check out either evidence that demands a verdict by josh mcdowell or case for christ by strobel...both were written by men who set out to prove the bible was not an accurate document. Sorry for any mis spellings as I type this on my phone..

[epocSoN]

I left the church after Ron Brown came to speak to us at my former church. He spent a good 30 minutes on how homosexuality was evil, blah blah blah.

 

Left and never looked back. That was one of that many reasons.

 

I sure hope you re-consider..did he explain why he believes that? As a Christian I do understand his point but would hope you are told where that thought process comes from.

 

You understand his point? Please clarify this statement...

 

I didn't leave the church solely due to the hate surrounding those that don't live the traditional christian lifestyle, it just got my foot out the door. Once I got out the door I allowed myself to finally examine the religion without bias, and have been an agnostic atheist ever since.

[The Dude]

I do believe the bible is an accurate document

This reminds me of one particular morning when I was waiting on the school bus. It was December 1992, the night before we were bombarded with a terrible ice storm and I was shocked that school wasn't canceled. As I stood on the corner of an intersection that sat atop a steep hill I thought the bus must have gotten stuck somewhere, because it was several minutes late. Although it seemed like an eternity because the howling wind was bitterly cold. I was just about to give up on the bus and go back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day, right when I noticed the bus at the bottom of the icy hill. So I waited and watched as the bus struggled up the hill. As it almost reached the top it began to skid backwards down the hill. The bus driver locked his brakes, but there was nothig he could do. The bus was out of control and careening down the hill. There was nothing the bus driver could do. The bus driver knew there was nothing he could do. I knew the bus driver knew there was nothing he could do, I could tell by the look in his eye that he knew there was nothing he could do. But, being a man that took pride in his work, he desparately tried to stop that bus.

 

Just as it looked like the bus was about to crash into a house at the bottom of the hill, it came to an abrupt stop. It got high-centered on a boulder that the homeowner kept in his yard as a part of his landscaping. I just kind of smiled a crooked smile and went back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day.

 

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

[Sub-Husker]

I wasn't criticizing you or claiming anything against you, just pointing out the inaccuracy of the theology surrounding the Pope; you never made clear whether or not you believed it was accurate.

 

I do not believe it... but the Catholic dogma is that he is god's rep here on earth.

[Sub-Husker]

I can't even express how irresponsible it is to form such weighty and impactful areas of doctrine based on one small area of scripture -- this is what cults do. I always find it humerous that the Catholics decided to focus so much on Matthew 16:13-19 where Jesus calls Peter the "rock on which to build his church", yet ignore Matthew 16:23 where Jesus calls Peter Satan

 

Saint Augustine made some really obscure grasps from scripture.

[Peoriahusker]

I do believe the bible is an accurate document

This reminds me of one particular morning when I was waiting on the school bus. It was December 1992, the night before we were bombarded with a terrible ice storm and I was shocked that school wasn't canceled. As I stood on the corner of an intersection that sat atop a steep hill I thought the bus must have gotten stuck somewhere, because it was several minutes late. Although it seemed like an eternity because the howling wind was bitterly cold. I was just about to give up on the bus and go back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day, right when I noticed the bus at the bottom of the icy hill. So I waited and watched as the bus struggled up the hill. As it almost reached the top it began to skid backwards down the hill. The bus driver locked his brakes, but there was nothig he could do. The bus was out of control and careening down the hill. There was nothing the bus driver could do. The bus driver knew there was nothing he could do. I knew the bus driver knew there was nothing he could do, I could tell by the look in his eye that he knew there was nothing he could do. But, being a man that took pride in his work, he desparately tried to stop that bus.

 

Just as it looked like the bus was about to crash into a house at the bottom of the hill, it came to an abrupt stop. It got high-centered on a boulder that the homeowner kept in his yard as a part of his landscaping. I just kind of smiled a crooked smile and went back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day.

 

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

 

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

oh, and GO BIG RED

[Peoriahusker]

I left the church after Ron Brown came to speak to us at my former church. He spent a good 30 minutes on how homosexuality was evil, blah blah blah.

 

Left and never looked back. That was one of that many reasons.

 

I sure hope you re-consider..did he explain why he believes that? As a Christian I do understand his point but would hope you are told where that thought process comes from.

 

You understand his point? Please clarify this statement...

 

I didn't leave the church solely due to the hate surrounding those that don't live the traditional christian lifestyle, it just got my foot out the door. Once I got out the door I allowed myself to finally examine the religion without bias, and have been an agnostic atheist ever since.

 

so, this is why i mentioned that the belief that the Bible is an accurate God breathed document is important. If this isn't true, then Ron and the rest of us have nothing to stand on..if you do believe that, then verses like Leviticus 18:22 stear us away from this practice. It's important to note, this doesn't mean that that sin is worse than another..cheating on my wife with another person is just as bad..

 

I would love to know the information you used(without bias) to determine you were going to be an atheist...ping me sometime on that..doesn't have to be on here.

 

GO BIG RED

[bennychico11]

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

That's Pascal's Wager. Unfortunately Pascal's Wager is flawed in every way. To start it's a false dichotomy. It only takes into account one god. What if the Muslims or Hindu's or Vikings are right? Then you're screwed. What if none of the options are true? It's not necessarily an either/or proposition. How do we determine which religion to believe in?

It also makes the assumption that all your god cares about is getting enough people on his side. That all you have to do is cover your ass by choosing to believe. If this is an all powerful god, he should know you're faking it just to get an "in" to heaven.

 

Physics is a natural science. It's the study of matter and it's motion through spacetime along with energy and force. You're leading the question with an assumption that it was created instead of always existed. The same thing could be asked about your god. How did your god come about?

[bennychico11]

I would love to know the information you used(without bias) to determine you were going to be an atheist...ping me sometime on that..doesn't have to be on here.

 

I personally choose to believe no god exists purely because I see no reason or evidence to do otherwise. Belief in the supernatural world is at odds with the natural world we live in. We have no evidence of magic. No evidence of a spiritual deity. We use reason and evidence in our lives every day, but then we're supposed to just take on faith that a god exists purely because a book says so? Nah, don't think so.

[Peoriahusker]

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

That's Pascal's Wager. Unfortunately Pascal's Wager is flawed in every way. To start it's a false dichotomy. It only takes into account one god. What if the Muslims or Hindu's or Vikings are right? Then you're screwed. What if none of the options are true? It's not necessarily an either/or proposition. How do we determine which religion to believe in?

It also makes the assumption that all your god cares about is getting enough people on his side. That all you have to do is cover your ass by choosing to believe. If this is an all powerful god, he should know you're faking it just to get an "in" to heaven.

 

Physics is a natural science. It's the study of matter and it's motion through spacetime along with energy and force. You're leading the question with an assumption that it was created instead of always existed. The same thing could be asked about your god. How did your god come about?

 

ah..all great questions...and points..first, I don't disagree with you at all that My God knows who's faking it..I said as much earlier. I was also just making a hypothetical statement...wasn't trying to say that you come to be a Christian simply to make sure that if it is for real you get to enter Heaven as well...that goes back to the true conversion comment earlier...

[Peoriahusker]

I would love to know the information you used(without bias) to determine you were going to be an atheist...ping me sometime on that..doesn't have to be on here.

 

I personally choose to believe no god exists purely because I see no reason or evidence to do otherwise. Belief in the supernatural world is at odds with the natural world we live in. We have no evidence of magic. No evidence of a spiritual deity. We use reason and evidence in our lives every day, but then we're supposed to just take on faith that a god exists purely because a book says so? Nah, don't think so.

 

ah, another great point and one I'm very interested in..see i agree with you on one point, many of us Christians can't back our faith up..we believe just because we've been tought that's the way to be..instead, we should be able to articulate why we believe and why the Bible is the book that it is..many Christians that only believe and rely on faith alone run into someone like you and you chew them up and spit them out..cuz they have no foundation. I'm working on that currently with my Kids..don't believe in this because I do, or i'm telling you to, but believe it based on the facts that exist...many are highlighted in the books i mentioned earlier. Now dont' get me wrong, faith does enter in at some point, like we have faith that the air exist even though we don't actually see it(childish example, but anyway.)

[bennychico11]

Now dont' get me wrong, faith does enter in at some point, like we have faith that the air exist even though we don't actually see it(childish example, but anyway.)

 

actually, we don't have "faith" that the air exists. Faith is believing something without evidence. Pure and simple. So why would you believe anything on faith? We have verifiable, repeatable evidence (and proof) that air (or breathable atmospheric gasses), does in fact exist. We can measure how much nitrogen, oxygen, argon, carbon dioxide and other gasses exist in our air. We can see the ramification when we remove air from a room that has people standing in it. They die. And when we blow air on an feather, we can observe it moving.

I don't necessarily need to see visually to know something exists. There are other ways of observing things. But unfortunately, no evidence has come forth that a god does exist. Same with Bigfoot, the Lochness monster, tooth fairy, etc. I don't accept any of them, so why would I accept a claim about a god existing? I prefer to live in the natural world that exists around me and not speculate about things I can't provide evidence for.

[bennychico11]

I was also just making a hypothetical statement...wasn't trying to say that you come to be a Christian simply to make sure that if it is for real you get to enter Heaven as well...that goes back to the true conversion comment earlier...

 

Except that's what Pascal's Wager is. You're saying that you don't have anything to lose by believing in your god. That you'll be the saved one and all the atheists are screwed. What if you're wrong? What if it's the reverse? What if that same god decided it was all a trick and that he instead decides to reward those who were skeptical and didn't just take things on faith?

Again, you're not only presuming a god exists, you seem to know his character and his rational. Which always seems to get to me. Because Christians will say in one breath "We'll never understand god's mysterious ways" and then in the other say "Well, god hates all sin!"

"god's will be done!"....."god gave us free will"

 

Which is it!!!? Is his will imposed on us...or does he give us free will? And if both, how do you determine what's god's decision and what's our own? If an old person dies in his sleep we say "god decided it was his time"...but if a child dies in a horrific accident, "it's not god's fault. these things just happen."

[The Dude]

I do believe the bible is an accurate document

This reminds me of one particular morning when I was waiting on the school bus. It was December 1992, the night before we were bombarded with a terrible ice storm and I was shocked that school wasn't canceled. As I stood on the corner of an intersection that sat atop a steep hill I thought the bus must have gotten stuck somewhere, because it was several minutes late. Although it seemed like an eternity because the howling wind was bitterly cold. I was just about to give up on the bus and go back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day, right when I noticed the bus at the bottom of the icy hill. So I waited and watched as the bus struggled up the hill. As it almost reached the top it began to skid backwards down the hill. The bus driver locked his brakes, but there was nothig he could do. The bus was out of control and careening down the hill. There was nothing the bus driver could do. The bus driver knew there was nothing he could do. I knew the bus driver knew there was nothing he could do, I could tell by the look in his eye that he knew there was nothing he could do. But, being a man that took pride in his work, he desparately tried to stop that bus.

 

Just as it looked like the bus was about to crash into a house at the bottom of the hill, it came to an abrupt stop. It got high-centered on a boulder that the homeowner kept in his yard as a part of his landscaping. I just kind of smiled a crooked smile and went back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day.

 

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

 

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

oh, and GO BIG RED

I guess your only downside is that you sound a little crazy when you say things like the bible is an accurate document, when in fact that's complete nonsense. My downside would be I burn in hell for the rest of enternity if I don't believe in an invisible, magical sky fairy. Seems like a pretty heavy punishment for something very trivial. Some all-loving god. If a god does exist, and is responsible for all the death, destruction, pain, suffering, starvation, disease, child molestation, ect. ect. in the world, then he certainly doesn't deserve praise. also..fuggin' magnets..how do they work?

[Peoriahusker]

I do believe the bible is an accurate document

This reminds me of one particular morning when I was waiting on the school bus. It was December 1992, the night before we were bombarded with a terrible ice storm and I was shocked that school wasn't canceled. As I stood on the corner of an intersection that sat atop a steep hill I thought the bus must have gotten stuck somewhere, because it was several minutes late. Although it seemed like an eternity because the howling wind was bitterly cold. I was just about to give up on the bus and go back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day, right when I noticed the bus at the bottom of the icy hill. So I waited and watched as the bus struggled up the hill. As it almost reached the top it began to skid backwards down the hill. The bus driver locked his brakes, but there was nothig he could do. The bus was out of control and careening down the hill. There was nothing the bus driver could do. The bus driver knew there was nothing he could do. I knew the bus driver knew there was nothing he could do, I could tell by the look in his eye that he knew there was nothing he could do. But, being a man that took pride in his work, he desparately tried to stop that bus.

 

Just as it looked like the bus was about to crash into a house at the bottom of the hill, it came to an abrupt stop. It got high-centered on a boulder that the homeowner kept in his yard as a part of his landscaping. I just kind of smiled a crooked smile and went back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day.

 

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

 

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

oh, and GO BIG RED

I guess your only downside is that you sound a little crazy when you say things like the bible is an accurate document, when in fact that's complete nonsense. My downside would be I burn in hell for the rest of enternity if I don't believe in an invisible, magical sky fairy. Seems like a pretty heavy punishment for something very trivial. Some all-loving god. If a god does exist, and is responsible for all the death, destruction, pain, suffering, starvation, disease, child molestation, ect. ect. in the world, then he certainly doesn't deserve praise.

 

well, can you prove it isn't accurate? not on this thread obviously, but can you? and make no mistake about it, he's nota sky fairy!