"Not a true Christian"

[Peoriahusker]

Now dont' get me wrong, faith does enter in at some point, like we have faith that the air exist even though we don't actually see it(childish example, but anyway.)

 

actually, we don't have "faith" that the air exists. Faith is believing something without evidence. Pure and simple. So why would you believe anything on faith? We have verifiable, repeatable evidence (and proof) that air (or breathable atmospheric gasses), does in fact exist. We can measure how much nitrogen, oxygen, argon, carbon dioxide and other gasses exist in our air. We can see the ramification when we remove air from a room that has people standing in it. They die. And when we blow air on an feather, we can observe it moving.

I don't necessarily need to see visually to know something exists. There are other ways of observing things. But unfortunately, no evidence has come forth that a god does exist. Same with Bigfoot, the Lochness monster, tooth fairy, etc. I don't accept any of them, so why would I accept a claim about a god existing? I prefer to live in the natural world that exists around me and not speculate about things I can't provide evidence for.

 

looks like we will need to agree to disagree for now..

[knapplc]

I think I've read this conversation before.

[Peoriahusker]

I do believe the bible is an accurate document

This reminds me of one particular morning when I was waiting on the school bus. It was December 1992, the night before we were bombarded with a terrible ice storm and I was shocked that school wasn't canceled. As I stood on the corner of an intersection that sat atop a steep hill I thought the bus must have gotten stuck somewhere, because it was several minutes late. Although it seemed like an eternity because the howling wind was bitterly cold. I was just about to give up on the bus and go back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day, right when I noticed the bus at the bottom of the icy hill. So I waited and watched as the bus struggled up the hill. As it almost reached the top it began to skid backwards down the hill. The bus driver locked his brakes, but there was nothig he could do. The bus was out of control and careening down the hill. There was nothing the bus driver could do. The bus driver knew there was nothing he could do. I knew the bus driver knew there was nothing he could do, I could tell by the look in his eye that he knew there was nothing he could do. But, being a man that took pride in his work, he desparately tried to stop that bus.

 

Just as it looked like the bus was about to crash into a house at the bottom of the hill, it came to an abrupt stop. It got high-centered on a boulder that the homeowner kept in his yard as a part of his landscaping. I just kind of smiled a crooked smile and went back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day.

 

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

 

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

oh, and GO BIG RED

I guess your only downside is that you sound a little crazy when you say things like the bible is an accurate document, when in fact that's complete nonsense. My downside would be I burn in hell for the rest of enternity if I don't believe in an invisible, magical sky fairy. Seems like a pretty heavy punishment for something very trivial. Some all-loving god. If a god does exist, and is responsible for all the death, destruction, pain, suffering, starvation, disease, child molestation, ect. ect. in the world, then he certainly doesn't deserve praise. also..fuggin' magnets..how do they work?

 

The chart below lists some documents, how many known original manuscripts, and the time span from the first known manuscript and when the document was authored.

Author No. of Copies Time Span Caesar 10 1.000 years Plato (Tetralogies) 7 1,200 years Tacitus (Annals) 20 1,000 years Pliny the Younger (History) 7 750 years Suetonius (De Vita Caesarum) 8 800 years Homer (Iliad) 643 500 years New Testament Over 24,000 25 years

After looking at the chart above, which document do you believe is the most trustworthy in being accurate regarding being closest to the original? Homer's Iliad does not even come close to the New Testament. Time span is critical when determining if the manuscript is close to the original. The longer the time span, the more of a chance of error. The first New Testament manuscript has only a 25 year span compared to 500 years for Iliad. Yet many of our readers would read Iliad as the gospel before the Bible.

We should also mention that of the 24,000 New Testament manuscripts they are 15 different languages and they all are accurate in their translation.

Let's look at one more point regarding the accuracy of manuscripts. It is the concept of textual variations and textual corruption. We will compare Iliad with the New Testament. The Iliad has about 15,600 textual line variations compared to the New Testament which has about 20,000 textual line variations. Not bad considering there are over 23,000 more manuscripts of the New Testament than the Iliad.

The Iliad has 764 lines of textual corruption whereas the New Testament only has 40 lines of textual corruption. So, which is the more accurate document?

*This data is from "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell 1979. There is a newer edition of this book which probably has even more powerful proof of the validity of scripture. As time allows we will update this page, better yet, why not get the book and read it yourself.

[The Dude]

I do believe the bible is an accurate document

This reminds me of one particular morning when I was waiting on the school bus. It was December 1992, the night before we were bombarded with a terrible ice storm and I was shocked that school wasn't canceled. As I stood on the corner of an intersection that sat atop a steep hill I thought the bus must have gotten stuck somewhere, because it was several minutes late. Although it seemed like an eternity because the howling wind was bitterly cold. I was just about to give up on the bus and go back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day, right when I noticed the bus at the bottom of the icy hill. So I waited and watched as the bus struggled up the hill. As it almost reached the top it began to skid backwards down the hill. The bus driver locked his brakes, but there was nothig he could do. The bus was out of control and careening down the hill. There was nothing the bus driver could do. The bus driver knew there was nothing he could do. I knew the bus driver knew there was nothing he could do, I could tell by the look in his eye that he knew there was nothing he could do. But, being a man that took pride in his work, he desparately tried to stop that bus.

 

Just as it looked like the bus was about to crash into a house at the bottom of the hill, it came to an abrupt stop. It got high-centered on a boulder that the homeowner kept in his yard as a part of his landscaping. I just kind of smiled a crooked smile and went back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day.

 

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

 

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

oh, and GO BIG RED

I guess your only downside is that you sound a little crazy when you say things like the bible is an accurate document, when in fact that's complete nonsense. My downside would be I burn in hell for the rest of enternity if I don't believe in an invisible, magical sky fairy. Seems like a pretty heavy punishment for something very trivial. Some all-loving god. If a god does exist, and is responsible for all the death, destruction, pain, suffering, starvation, disease, child molestation, ect. ect. in the world, then he certainly doesn't deserve praise.

 

well, can you prove it isn't accurate? not on this thread obviously, but can you? and make no mistake about it, he's nota sky fairy!

Well yeah, there's tons of evidence pointing to the fact that it isn't a historically accurate document. There are things in it that are accurate I'm sure, but suggesting it's an accurate account of how we came about is absurd.

[The Dude]

I do believe the bible is an accurate document

This reminds me of one particular morning when I was waiting on the school bus. It was December 1992, the night before we were bombarded with a terrible ice storm and I was shocked that school wasn't canceled. As I stood on the corner of an intersection that sat atop a steep hill I thought the bus must have gotten stuck somewhere, because it was several minutes late. Although it seemed like an eternity because the howling wind was bitterly cold. I was just about to give up on the bus and go back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day, right when I noticed the bus at the bottom of the icy hill. So I waited and watched as the bus struggled up the hill. As it almost reached the top it began to skid backwards down the hill. The bus driver locked his brakes, but there was nothig he could do. The bus was out of control and careening down the hill. There was nothing the bus driver could do. The bus driver knew there was nothing he could do. I knew the bus driver knew there was nothing he could do, I could tell by the look in his eye that he knew there was nothing he could do. But, being a man that took pride in his work, he desparately tried to stop that bus.

 

Just as it looked like the bus was about to crash into a house at the bottom of the hill, it came to an abrupt stop. It got high-centered on a boulder that the homeowner kept in his yard as a part of his landscaping. I just kind of smiled a crooked smile and went back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day.

 

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

 

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

oh, and GO BIG RED

I guess your only downside is that you sound a little crazy when you say things like the bible is an accurate document, when in fact that's complete nonsense. My downside would be I burn in hell for the rest of enternity if I don't believe in an invisible, magical sky fairy. Seems like a pretty heavy punishment for something very trivial. Some all-loving god. If a god does exist, and is responsible for all the death, destruction, pain, suffering, starvation, disease, child molestation, ect. ect. in the world, then he certainly doesn't deserve praise. also..fuggin' magnets..how do they work?

 

The chart below lists some documents, how many known original manuscripts, and the time span from the first known manuscript and when the document was authored.

Author No. of Copies Time Span Caesar 10 1.000 years Plato (Tetralogies) 7 1,200 years Tacitus (Annals) 20 1,000 years Pliny the Younger (History) 7 750 years Suetonius (De Vita Caesarum) 8 800 years Homer (Iliad) 643 500 years New Testament Over 24,000 25 years

 

After looking at the chart above, which document do you believe is the most trustworthy in being accurate regarding being closest to the original? Homer's Iliad does not even come close to the New Testament. Time span is critical when determining if the manuscript is close to the original. The longer the time span, the more of a chance of error. The first New Testament manuscript has only a 25 year span compared to 500 years for Iliad. Yet many of our readers would read Iliad as the gospel before the Bible.

We should also mention that of the 24,000 New Testament manuscripts they are 15 different languages and they all are accurate in their translation.

Let's look at one more point regarding the accuracy of manuscripts. It is the concept of textual variations and textual corruption. We will compare Iliad with the New Testament. The Iliad has about 15,600 textual line variations compared to the New Testament which has about 20,000 textual line variations. Not bad considering there are over 23,000 more manuscripts of the New Testament than the Iliad.

The Iliad has 764 lines of textual corruption whereas the New Testament only has 40 lines of textual corruption. So, which is the more accurate document?

*This data is from "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell 1979. There is a newer edition of this book which probably has even more powerful proof of the validity of scripture. As time allows we will update this page, better yet, why not get the book and read it yourself.

It looks like I completely misunderstood what you meant by accurate document. Carry on.

[Ratt Mhule]

I think I've read this conversation before.

 

Yes, every religion topic ever created on huskerboard. Peoriahusker, trust me, this will be the last time you engage in a religion debate on huskerboard. You can create a title that says for believers only please and it will turn into an atheist vs. believers pissing match.

 

I have my faith, you have your faith, Landlord has his faith and many others on this board have their faith. That is all we need.

[bennychico11]

looks like we will need to agree to disagree for now..

 

Unfortunately that's the issue. I can't. Because faith, spirituality and religion affects the world around me. It's used by people of our government to decide the laws which I live by. It gets instituted in the classrooms as fact without any evidence. Members of congress decide to waste time, insisting on having a re-vote to keep the US motto "In god we trust"...instead of solving real problems. I drive by billboard after billboard telling me how I'm going to hell for eternity unless I accept Jesus in my life. I see people around me being persecuted and ridiculed just because they love someone of the same gender. I'm told I'll be prayed for because my life is somehow worthless unless I accept god....and all I'm expected to do in response is just nod and smile. It pains me to see people in my life that I care about act so delusional.

[PuegotDaddy]

Didnt Noahs ark land on a rock ?

 

I do believe the bible is an accurate document

This reminds me of one particular morning when I was waiting on the school bus. It was December 1992, the night before we were bombarded with a terrible ice storm and I was shocked that school wasn't canceled. As I stood on the corner of an intersection that sat atop a steep hill I thought the bus must have gotten stuck somewhere, because it was several minutes late. Although it seemed like an eternity because the howling wind was bitterly cold. I was just about to give up on the bus and go back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day, right when I noticed the bus at the bottom of the icy hill. So I waited and watched as the bus struggled up the hill. As it almost reached the top it began to skid backwards down the hill. The bus driver locked his brakes, but there was nothig he could do. The bus was out of control and careening down the hill. There was nothing the bus driver could do. The bus driver knew there was nothing he could do. I knew the bus driver knew there was nothing he could do, I could tell by the look in his eye that he knew there was nothing he could do. But, being a man that took pride in his work, he desparately tried to stop that bus.

 

Just as it looked like the bus was about to crash into a house at the bottom of the hill, it came to an abrupt stop. It got high-centered on a boulder that the homeowner kept in his yard as a part of his landscaping. I just kind of smiled a crooked smile and went back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day.

 

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

[bennychico11]

I think I've read this conversation before.

 

Yes, every religion topic ever created on huskerboard. Peoriahusker, trust me, this will be the last time you engage in a religion debate on huskerboard. You can create a title that says for believers only please and it will turn into an atheist vs. believers pissing match.

 

I have my faith, you have your faith, Landlord has his faith and many others on this board have their faith. That is all we need.

 

lol, I tried so hard to stay out of this discussion. Lately I've just been wanting to sit back and read these types of discussions more than anything. I was actually interested in hearing everyone's take on what the definition of "Christian" is

[PuegotDaddy]

Its not about science when you talk of your Maker ; science is mans trying to understand what you Maker made ... You were given free will and choice ; actually man took it when Adam and Eve ate what they were told not to ...so your Maker said , "OK , have it your way , see where it gets you ..." Then he sent directions

( Bible ) and some on here even screw that up ....

 

Most who knock it havent read it , and you just proved that ...however you were given FREE CHOICE ...so carry on ...

Nope, but I have read enough to know that many Christians don't understand the book they claim to live by. Either that or they willfully discard the parts that don't fit in with their perception of their religion. Like I said before, believe what you wish to believe, but understand why you believe it and where that belief originated - if it is not yours.

 

All too often the most knowledgeable people on the Bible are ex-Christians.

 

Here's an article to back that up. http://articles.lati...survey-20100928

 

Although I wonder if it has more to do with Christians who actually get into the composition and history of the Bible tend to either be liberal Christians or ex-Christians.

 

It's like the old joke. Question: How do you stop believing in the bible? Answer: Read it.

'Free Choice' really is not part of the Christian concepts. Free will can not coexist with a 'divine plan.' It can't really be a choice if the outcome is already known to someone. Unless you want to get into the theories that every choice made by each person splits off into another parallel universe and there really is a 'multiverse instead, and thats really getting out into fringe science.

[PuegotDaddy]

Big nose ? Actually there are native Jewish people as a race ; funny that they would share Palestinian traits ; and also a religion of many different nationalities . Funny that those who tried to sound so brainy talking of the Jewish folks not having their own race , must not be reading the Bible ? The Jewish folks history is in there , who BEGAT who ..

 

How do you "look' jewish?

 

It's a religion... not a race? I hate when people say that. Can i look athiest somehow?

[PuegotDaddy]

Yes I went to a Lutheren church with an old girlfriend because her family went there , and they denied me communion because I wasnt a member . Wonder how they would explain that to Jesus , that they THE CHURCH had denied me remembering what Christ did for me . And you are right , it is up to our Maker to judge , not us ..However many of you stereotype (what your own mind or experience) tells you a bad Christian is , and dont take the time to meet a good one ...because there are good Christians ...Do you judge generally , lets say Black folks or White folks because you met one or two bad ones ?

 

According to my future mother in law, unless your a part of her church, you are not christian.

Even though I'm lutheran, and was raised lutheran all through school.

 

Christians can be some of the meanest, most judgmental people in the world, all because some regard themselves as being superior because of their faith.

[The Dude]

I think I've read this conversation before.

 

Yes, every religion topic ever created on huskerboard. Peoriahusker, trust me, this will be the last time you engage in a religion debate on huskerboard. You can create a title that says for believers only please and it will turn into an atheist vs. believers pissing match.

 

 

You say that like it's a bad thing. Society evolves through information, and religion is by far the biggest form of misinformation in society. Debunking misinformation is paramount in the advancement of the human condition.

[PuegotDaddy]

Please explain to me then , that Jesus , while on earth , prayed to the Father ? I believe in the Trinity , perhaps you can enlighten this old dumb ass , but I am curious when folks say Jesus is Lord , isnt he supposed to sit on the right side ? I am listening , not telling you that you are wrong ...just trying to understand

 

Jesus wasn't a Christian; Jesus is God. The term Christian refers specifically to His followers. God isn't a Christian

 

 

The people that don't know what is in the Bible, don't live by it and etc. probably aren't Christians.

[strigori]

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

That's Pascal's Wager. Unfortunately Pascal's Wager is flawed in every way. To start it's a false dichotomy. It only takes into account one god. What if the Muslims or Hindu's or Vikings are right? Then you're screwed. What if none of the options are true? It's not necessarily an either/or proposition. How do we determine which religion to believe in?

It also makes the assumption that all your god cares about is getting enough people on his side. That all you have to do is cover your ass by choosing to believe. If this is an all powerful god, he should know you're faking it just to get an "in" to heaven.

 

Physics is a natural science. It's the study of matter and it's motion through spacetime along with energy and force. You're leading the question with an assumption that it was created instead of always existed. The same thing could be asked about your god. How did your god come about?

Or you could get crazy and say that it works like the book "American God's" where anything people worship develops an avatar....