"Not a true Christian"

[Landlord]

Please explain to me then , that Jesus , while on earth , prayed to the Father ? I believe in the Trinity , perhaps you can enlighten this old dumb ass , but I am curious when folks say Jesus is Lord , isnt he supposed to sit on the right side ? I am listening , not telling you that you are wrong ...just trying to understand

 

Jesus wasn't a Christian; Jesus is God. The term Christian refers specifically to His followers. God isn't a Christian

 

 

The people that don't know what is in the Bible, don't live by it and etc. probably aren't Christians.

 

 

Eh, in English it's hard to go about this properly, but 'God' or 'Lord' doesn't refer to God the Father, at least I didn't intend for it to - it refers to all, or refers to the divinity associated with the Trinity. An easy point of confusion, for sure, and I should be more careful with my words, because you're quite right, God the Son (Jesus) is not God the Father, nor God the Holy Spirit, and to say so would be heretical.

 

 

Yes, every religion topic ever created on huskerboard. Peoriahusker, trust me, this will be the last time you engage in a religion debate on huskerboard. You can create a title that says for believers only please and it will turn into an atheist vs. believers pissing match.

 

I have my faith, you have your faith, Landlord has his faith and many others on this board have their faith. That is all we need.

 

 

All we need is Jesus I am not nor will ever be one to shove something down someone's throat, but I will certainly always be vocal and consistent about what I deeply believe to be true, and I won't make concessions if people don't like it. If the world decided to stop believing in gravity and everyone was going to jump out of a skyscraper, you better believe I'm going to do everything I possibly can to try and make them understand what will happen, even if they accuse me of being intolerant, narrow-minded or anything else. Similarly, if I believe that a life without repentance and acceptance of Jesus as savior will lead to damnation, suffering, and either eternity in hell or annihilation, I'll let you know.

[knapplc]

lol, I tried so hard to stay out of this discussion. Lately I've just been wanting to sit back and read these types of discussions more than anything. I was actually interested in hearing everyone's take on what the definition of "Christian" is

 

I've just decided that what I believe isn't worth arguing about with someone. My opinion on the subject has actually changed over the year, but that's my opinion and doesn't really affect anyone else. I just figured out what I believe, and that's good enough for me.

[PuegotDaddy]

Well I will try .. A Christian is a human sinner who realizes that through Jesus's sacrfices on the cross (to remove our sinful nature) ; and the belief and FAITH that Jesus rose from the dead to sit by the throne of his Father , our maker ; and by the teachings left to us by Christ , and TRYING to live our lives according to these teachings ( though Jesus's sacrfice "only" paid for our saving ) will make us worthy for our maker to take us to heaven to meet our deceased loved ones and live with all in peace and love . A Christian believes that since our Maker GAVE US LIFE ONCE that our MAKER can give us life once again , as he did for his own Son ...

That is the best I can do , there may be others who do better than myself.

[Ratt Mhule]

I think I've read this conversation before.

 

Yes, every religion topic ever created on huskerboard. Peoriahusker, trust me, this will be the last time you engage in a religion debate on huskerboard. You can create a title that says for believers only please and it will turn into an atheist vs. believers pissing match.

 

 

You say that like it's a bad thing. Society evolves through information, and religion is by far the biggest form of misinformation in society. Debunking misinformation is paramount in the advancement of the human condition.

 

That is your opinion, nothing else. If you don't believe in the "sky fairy" that's fine. It's your choice.

[Husker_x]

I do believe the bible is an accurate document

This reminds me of one particular morning when I was waiting on the school bus. It was December 1992, the night before we were bombarded with a terrible ice storm and I was shocked that school wasn't canceled. As I stood on the corner of an intersection that sat atop a steep hill I thought the bus must have gotten stuck somewhere, because it was several minutes late. Although it seemed like an eternity because the howling wind was bitterly cold. I was just about to give up on the bus and go back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day, right when I noticed the bus at the bottom of the icy hill. So I waited and watched as the bus struggled up the hill. As it almost reached the top it began to skid backwards down the hill. The bus driver locked his brakes, but there was nothig he could do. The bus was out of control and careening down the hill. There was nothing the bus driver could do. The bus driver knew there was nothing he could do. I knew the bus driver knew there was nothing he could do, I could tell by the look in his eye that he knew there was nothing he could do. But, being a man that took pride in his work, he desparately tried to stop that bus.

 

Just as it looked like the bus was about to crash into a house at the bottom of the hill, it came to an abrupt stop. It got high-centered on a boulder that the homeowner kept in his yard as a part of his landscaping. I just kind of smiled a crooked smile and went back inside to read Calvin and Hobbes books for the rest of the day.

 

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

 

Never was a Calvin and Hobbes fan...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside? now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

oh, and GO BIG RED

I guess your only downside is that you sound a little crazy when you say things like the bible is an accurate document, when in fact that's complete nonsense. My downside would be I burn in hell for the rest of enternity if I don't believe in an invisible, magical sky fairy. Seems like a pretty heavy punishment for something very trivial. Some all-loving god. If a god does exist, and is responsible for all the death, destruction, pain, suffering, starvation, disease, child molestation, ect. ect. in the world, then he certainly doesn't deserve praise. also..fuggin' magnets..how do they work?

 

The chart below lists some documents, how many known original manuscripts, and the time span from the first known manuscript and when the document was authored.

Author No. of Copies Time Span Caesar 10 1.000 years Plato (Tetralogies) 7 1,200 years Tacitus (Annals) 20 1,000 years Pliny the Younger (History) 7 750 years Suetonius (De Vita Caesarum) 8 800 years Homer (Iliad) 643 500 years New Testament Over 24,000 25 years

 

After looking at the chart above, which document do you believe is the most trustworthy in being accurate regarding being closest to the original? Homer's Iliad does not even come close to the New Testament. Time span is critical when determining if the manuscript is close to the original. The longer the time span, the more of a chance of error. The first New Testament manuscript has only a 25 year span compared to 500 years for Iliad. Yet many of our readers would read Iliad as the gospel before the Bible.

We should also mention that of the 24,000 New Testament manuscripts they are 15 different languages and they all are accurate in their translation.

Let's look at one more point regarding the accuracy of manuscripts. It is the concept of textual variations and textual corruption. We will compare Iliad with the New Testament. The Iliad has about 15,600 textual line variations compared to the New Testament which has about 20,000 textual line variations. Not bad considering there are over 23,000 more manuscripts of the New Testament than the Iliad.

The Iliad has 764 lines of textual corruption whereas the New Testament only has 40 lines of textual corruption. So, which is the more accurate document?

*This data is from "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell 1979. There is a newer edition of this book which probably has even more powerful proof of the validity of scripture. As time allows we will update this page, better yet, why not get the book and read it yourself.

 

Sir, with all due respect, I would take anything Josh McDowell says or writes with a cinderblock of salt. He is not a textual scholar. I would actually seek out critiques of his work because the arguments that you're re-presenting here are not helpful on any level in determining anythingabout the authenticity of the gospels. They're error-riddled and fallacious. I'll just point out a few.

 

1. Generally speaking, no two existing manuscripts are identical and we have no autographs of any text to compare them against. I suppose this was a part of the divine plan.

 

2. The relative similarity of divergent texts says nothing at all about whether or not they are accurate representations of the world. They remain anonymous reports far removed from the events they describe.

 

3. The first NT manscript we have is not dated 25 years after its composition. The earliest fragment--a business card-sized scrap of the Gospel of John--is dated somewhere around the first half of the second century. Full manuscripts of any book come later.

 

4. The gospels themselves are already divergent from each other as they stand.

 

5. Even if we had a photograph taken by a time traveller of the first manuscript of Homer's Iliad, it would still remain what it is--a work of fantastical fiction not to be taken as historical fact. "Trustworthy" is probably the wrong word for this discussion. I could go out tomorrow and scrounge you up a living first-hand account of a UFO abduction. Would that make you believe intelligent beings crossed deep space to suck a human into a spacecraft?

 

6. The quantity of manuscripts has nothing to do with quality. I could copy "knapplc rarely posts on Huskberboard" a trillion times and it wouldn't make it so.

 

Whatever you do, don't take my word for it, or McDowell's. Seek out some actual biblical scholars--not apologists who are paid to reaffirm fundamentalism at the expense of the truth--and see what they have to say. It's quite stunning.

[The Dude]

I think I've read this conversation before.

 

Yes, every religion topic ever created on huskerboard. Peoriahusker, trust me, this will be the last time you engage in a religion debate on huskerboard. You can create a title that says for believers only please and it will turn into an atheist vs. believers pissing match.

 

 

You say that like it's a bad thing. Society evolves through information, and religion is by far the biggest form of misinformation in society. Debunking misinformation is paramount in the advancement of the human condition.

 

That is your opinion, nothing else. If you don't believe in the "sky fairy" that's fine. It's your choice.

Yes, it's my opinion based on the *fact* that religion is the biggest form of misinformation in society. Isn't expressing our opinions kind of the point of message boards? We do ourselves and our future generations no favors by remaining ignorant to reality. It's called progress.

[Peoriahusker]

lol, I tried so hard to stay out of this discussion. Lately I've just been wanting to sit back and read these types of discussions more than anything. I was actually interested in hearing everyone's take on what the definition of "Christian" is

 

I've just decided that what I believe isn't worth arguing about with someone. My opinion on the subject has actually changed over the year, but that's my opinion and doesn't really affect anyone else. I just figured out what I believe, and that's good enough for me.

__

 

That's where some go wrong..there's no reason to argue..its a discussion. And as a christian to not share your faith and just keep it for yourself is a mistake. That doesn't mean ram it down someones throat. But sitting there not sharing is taking the easy way out.

..

[Peoriahusker]

I think I've read this conversation before.

 

Yes, every religion topic ever created on huskerboard. Peoriahusker, trust me, this will be the last time you engage in a religion debate on huskerboard. You can create a title that says for believers only please and it will turn into an atheist vs. believers pissing match.

 

I have my faith, you have your faith, Landlord has his faith and many others on this board have their faith. That is all we need.

 

Really?

[NEWICOsker]

Yes I went to a Lutheren church with an old girlfriend because her family went there , and they denied me communion because I wasnt a member . Wonder how they would explain that to Jesus , that they THE CHURCH had denied me remembering what Christ did for me . And you are right , it is up to our Maker to judge , not us ..However many of you stereotype (what your own mind or experience) tells you a bad Christian is , and dont take the time to meet a good one ...because there are good Christians ...Do you judge generally , lets say Black folks or White folks because you met one or two bad ones ?

 

According to my future mother in law, unless your a part of her church, you are not christian.

Even though I'm lutheran, and was raised lutheran all through school.

 

Christians can be some of the meanest, most judgmental people in the world, all because some regard themselves as being superior because of their faith.

 

I once posted on a Husker message board and this Christian on there damned me to hell several times. Wonder how you would explain that to Jesus?

[NEWICOsker]

Please explain to me then , that Jesus , while on earth , prayed to the Father ? I believe in the Trinity , perhaps you can enlighten this old dumb ass , but I am curious when folks say Jesus is Lord , isnt he supposed to sit on the right side ? I am listening , not telling you that you are wrong ...just trying to understand

 

Jesus wasn't a Christian; Jesus is God. The term Christian refers specifically to His followers. God isn't a Christian

 

 

The people that don't know what is in the Bible, don't live by it and etc. probably aren't Christians.

 

I think he's just saying that the definition of a Christian is "one who follows Christ". Which, by definition, rules out Christ himself.

 

One of the tenets of the Christian religion is certainly the trinity, but I think he's just talking about the definition.

[Ratt Mhule]

I think I've read this conversation before.

 

Yes, every religion topic ever created on huskerboard. Peoriahusker, trust me, this will be the last time you engage in a religion debate on huskerboard. You can create a title that says for believers only please and it will turn into an atheist vs. believers pissing match.

 

I have my faith, you have your faith, Landlord has his faith and many others on this board have their faith. That is all we need.

 

Really?

 

Just go through every topic about religion in this forum and it will be this EXACT thread in every single one like knapplc has said. Pascall's wager, The Dude saying something about a magical sky fairy, and everything else in this thread.

[The Dude]

I think I've read this conversation before.

 

Yes, every religion topic ever created on huskerboard. Peoriahusker, trust me, this will be the last time you engage in a religion debate on huskerboard. You can create a title that says for believers only please and it will turn into an atheist vs. believers pissing match.

 

I have my faith, you have your faith, Landlord has his faith and many others on this board have their faith. That is all we need.

 

Really?

 

Just go through every topic about religion in this forum and it will be this EXACT thread in every single one like knapplc has said. Pascall's wager, The Dude saying something about a magical sky fairy, and everything else in this thread.

I believe this is only the second thread I've mentioned the magical sky fairy. Which is an accurate description of the monotheistic god of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, ect. It's a description that perfectly captures the absurdity of the concept. I'm glad my first usage of it struck a chord with you. Just goes to show our opinions can have an affect on people, and shouldn't be censored.

[Sub-Husker]

Anyways, the point of the story is physics exist, and Noah's Ark is bullsh#t.

 

God is the universe, and physics is one of the sciences that describe god.

[Sub-Husker]

...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside?

 

No downside, we are all here for a purpose.

 

now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

If the entire Bible is correct, I will go to hell for all the seafood that I have eaten and mixed fabrics I have worn.

 

I do believe that parts of it are correct though.

[strigori]

...on a serious note, let me ask you a question..hypothetically...what if i'm wrong, there is not true one God, the Bible isn't accurate and its all crap...what happens to me? whats my downside?

 

No downside, we are all here for a purpose.

 

now, let me ask this, if you're the one who is wrong, there actually is one true God, the Bible is accurate and there is a Heaven and Hell...whats your downside? also..how does physics exist..how did it come about?

 

If the entire Bible is correct, I will go to hell for all the seafood that I have eaten and mixed fabrics I have worn.

 

I do believe that parts of it are correct though.

If everyone and everything is part of some master plan created at the moment the universe was created, then there is no good, no evil, you can't have them without choice. And no, if 'God' knows what my 'choice' will be, then its not really a choice, just an illusion of a choice.

 

And if part of the Bible are incorrect, like the examples you have mentioned right here, then how could you tell what parts are 'correct' vs 'incorrect?'

 

The fact is the books have been edited for various reasons by men with various motivations of the centuries. The Catholic church spent many, many centuries as the most corrupt institution on the face of the earth. And I think anyone who would say that there were not edits made for reasons of wealth and power, is simply naive.