How has the Marine Urination fiasco missed Huskerboard?

[zoogs]

Hey, just because this topic is about urination doesn't mean it's OK or on-topic to get into a pissing match.

 

[removed some posts - just keep that stuff in the shed]

[redblooded]

All just trying to hide from accountability of actions. Again...why can many/most not do these things if they are so natural to do in war? Why don't all boxers bite ears in fights? Can it just be that they are crazy/low lifes/undisciplined? No, no, lets makes excuses for them because they are on our side...

 

and it's not just a photo...it's a 40 sec or so video.

 

I'm not hiding from accountability and I don't think they should not be held accountable. I don't believe these things can ever be referred to as "natural" whether or not in war. But the fact remains that people pushed to their limits will sometimes react in various disturbing ways. My only point is that we should not be so judgemental of the action that we fail to imagine how it could have evolved to happen. You haven't ever been pushed that far and neither have I. You cannot say with 100% accuracy that it could never happen to you. If you think you can say that, you are lying to yourself. I think as a whole, our servicemen do an outstanding job of behaving appropriately in extreme circumstances and typically much better than most of our enemies. But, like all walks of life, there will be people who have extraordinary reactions to the horrors of war. Instead of continuing to beat that dog with a stick maybe you should try to be a little more understanding. I'm not making excuses for it or condoning it. I'm just being realistic of the fact that it can and does happen and I believe, if you remove those people from the war situation, it probably would never happen. I am fully able to leave that level of judgement up to a greater power than you or I, and one who really knows what is in their heart.

 

 

I would more slack if it happend in the heat of the battle...but not in a situation like this. AGAIN...If so many others can stop themselves from doing things like this...why can't it be a very rare thing?

 

 

How do you know this isn't happening all the time? I have no idea is this is common or not. The only reason we found out about this one was because someone was dumb enough to record it. You seem to assume a lot.

 

to be more clear w/ my point. why doesn't everyone in the military do it when they are over there?

 

Your point was clear awhile ago, you are outraged, everyone else tried to explain why that might happen in a time of war... and you jumped to "why doesn't everyone do that." as if everyone thought it was acceptable or something.

 

You don't need anyone to explain that to you if you have any common sense. Any more then I need you to explain to me why everyone doesn't eat chinese food on sunday.

[Cactusboy]

 

Your point was clear awhile ago, you are outraged, everyone else tried to explain why that might happen in a time of war... and you jumped to "why doesn't everyone do that." as if everyone thought it was acceptable or something.

 

You don't need anyone to explain that to you if you have any common sense. Any more then I need you to explain to me why everyone doesn't eat chinese food on sunday.

 

 

many here say it's wrong, but act like it's not a big deal...a boys will be boys thing and you for sure can't judgde them w/out having been in their shoes. It's a white washing.

 

If these people want to be consistent and not hypocrites they should use that logic/rationale across the board. USC cheated...oh that's common in college sports...why all the uproar. Women are beaten in Muslim countries...that's a common thing there, what's all the uproar about? The KKK used to lynch blacks....oh that wasn't uncommon back in the day. Why do people act like it's a big deal they did that?

 

I mean...of course all of the above is wrong...by let's not make a big deal of it...and for sure don't judge. Afterall we weren't in the KKK's, Muslim men, or USC's shoes.

[knapplc]

many here say it's wrong, but act like it's not a big deal...a boys will be boys thing and you for sure can't judgde them w/out having been in their shoes. It's a white washing.

 

If these people want to be consistent and not hypocrites they should use that logic/rationale across the board. USC cheated...oh that's common in college sports...why all the uproar. Women are beaten in Muslim countries...that's a common thing there, what's all the uproar about? The KKK used to lynch blacks....oh that wasn't uncommon back in the day. Why do people act like it's a big deal they did that?

 

I mean...of course all of the above is wrong...by let's not make a big deal of it...and for sure don't judge. Afterall we weren't in the KKK's, Muslim men, or USC's shoes.

 

Do you seriously not understand the concept of context? Or are you just trolling here? I'm beginning to think your inability to understand where everyone else is coming from is a put-on. You cannot purport to be reasonable and yet have no ability to grasp where the other side of this conversation is coming from, and your examples are becoming more and more extreme - to the point of absurdity.

[HeyBurke]

 

Your point was clear awhile ago, you are outraged, everyone else tried to explain why that might happen in a time of war... and you jumped to "why doesn't everyone do that." as if everyone thought it was acceptable or something.

 

You don't need anyone to explain that to you if you have any common sense. Any more then I need you to explain to me why everyone doesn't eat chinese food on sunday.

 

 

many here say it's wrong, but act like it's not a big deal...a boys will be boys thing and you for sure can't judgde them w/out having been in their shoes. It's a white washing.

 

If these people want to be consistent and not hypocrites they should use that logic/rationale across the board. USC cheated...oh that's common in college sports...why all the uproar. Women are beaten in Muslim countries...that's a common thing there, what's all the uproar about? The KKK used to lynch blacks....oh that wasn't uncommon back in the day. Why do people act like it's a big deal they did that?

 

I mean...of course all of the above is wrong...by let's not make a big deal of it...and for sure don't judge. Afterall we weren't in the KKK's, Muslim men, or USC's shoes.

 

Are you actually reading everyone's posts, or are you just skimming them? From what I can tell, everyone here wants these Marines to be reprimanded pretty harshly. They're not trying to make the situation less of what it is, they're just trying to explain why stuff like this happens.

[Cactusboy]

many here say it's wrong, but act like it's not a big deal...a boys will be boys thing and you for sure can't judgde them w/out having been in their shoes. It's a white washing.

 

If these people want to be consistent and not hypocrites they should use that logic/rationale across the board. USC cheated...oh that's common in college sports...why all the uproar. Women are beaten in Muslim countries...that's a common thing there, what's all the uproar about? The KKK used to lynch blacks....oh that wasn't uncommon back in the day. Why do people act like it's a big deal they did that?

 

I mean...of course all of the above is wrong...by let's not make a big deal of it...and for sure don't judge. Afterall we weren't in the KKK's, Muslim men, or USC's shoes.

 

Do you seriously not understand the concept of context? Or are you just trolling here? I'm beginning to think your inability to understand where everyone else is coming from is a put-on. You cannot purport to be reasonable and yet have no ability to grasp where the other side of this conversation is coming from, and your examples are becoming more and more extreme - to the point of absurdity.

 

I've said there is context more than once. I understand that...but many here seem to think that context far more important than it should be. They give a token, "it's wrong..punish them" but then seem to virtually totally excuse them. I'm the one w/ the reasonable view on this incident. If I use extreme analogies it's because others keep trying to go to the other extreme w/ their whitewashing.

 

Here's how it should be - They were caught. Give them a dishonorable discharge. Expect backlash from the media and critics and other countries...face the music. They hurt the rep of our miliary and country. Don't be mad at the outrage...be mad at who did the "crime" and better yet be mad at who allowed such an event take place through bad "coaching". It just makes it worse when you try to make excuses for someone. You can point out context but don't use that card to the point where it seems you are excusing the bahavior and that is what is being done. w/ some here...the marine recruiter. When you do the "oh this happens all the time...boys will be boys...war is hell" stuff you make it that much easier/likely to happen again.

 

I realize critisizing the military is the 3rd rail...but I don't shy away from 3rd rails. I appreciate the military, but they aren't above the law or criticism.

[knapplc]

At this point you're arguing just to argue. Nobody is saying what you're putting out there.

[Cactusboy]

At this point you're arguing just to argue. Nobody is saying what you're putting out there.

 

 

you can't judge them...it happens all the time, etc? yes, that's been said more than once... You may not be able to fairly judge them as you would an exact peer, but you can still judge them w/ a grain of salt which is what I'm doing. I think this is a bigger deal than some or many and I'm explaining why.

[knapplc]

You're arguing shades of gray.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

many here say it's wrong, but act like it's not a big deal...a boys will be boys thing and you for sure can't judgde them w/out having been in their shoes. It's a white washing.

 

If these people want to be consistent and not hypocrites they should use that logic/rationale across the board. USC cheated...oh that's common in college sports...why all the uproar. Women are beaten in Muslim countries...that's a common thing there, what's all the uproar about? The KKK used to lynch blacks....oh that wasn't uncommon back in the day. Why do people act like it's a big deal they did that?

 

I mean...of course all of the above is wrong...by let's not make a big deal of it...and for sure don't judge. Afterall we weren't in the KKK's, Muslim men, or USC's shoes.

 

Do you seriously not understand the concept of context? Or are you just trolling here? I'm beginning to think your inability to understand where everyone else is coming from is a put-on. You cannot purport to be reasonable and yet have no ability to grasp where the other side of this conversation is coming from, and your examples are becoming more and more extreme - to the point of absurdity.

 

I've said there is context more than once. I understand that...but many here seem to think that context far more important than it should be. They give a token, "it's wrong..punish them" but then seem to virtually totally excuse them. I'm the one w/ the reasonable view on this incident. If I use extreme analogies it's because others keep trying to go to the other extreme w/ their whitewashing.

 

 

No one, and I'll repeat no one on this thread who has stated their opinion which magically happen to be different from yours [i know, impossible to fathom, because everyone should be reasonable like you] has said they condoned these actions. No one has said they are excusable. Everyone thinks that what those Marines did was wrong.

 

What we're trying to argue is that these instances are common in times of war, hence the whole concept of context, which behaviors seem to attach too [if you missed it, look up a couple of posts where I give an explanation] Contexts drive a whole lot of our behaviors wether you would like to believe it or not. Does it make any action excusable? NO! But that's not the point. The point is is that it makes their actions understandable.

 

You're confusing understandability with condoning.

[Green Lantern]

However I will not call Bill Clinton a hypocrite since he never cliamed to have "family values", while Newt Gingrinch is a hypocrite because he has championed those values.

"You vote for me and I'll give you family values." Bill Clinton Portland Oregonian (26 July 1992)

What Bill Clinton said, with the part Green Lanten omitted...

You live in a country that makes it harder to raise children than any other country in the world. You vote for me and I'll give you family values.

.

Nice catch!

Not really, once you realize he was talking about children rather than marriage.

 

So you think family values as it relates to children doesn't involve examples parents set? Sorry, but that thought process is amazingly stupid. Families extend beyond just children. Family values probably do not include getting a beejer from your lardass intern while your daughter watches your complete self-destruction on TV.

[Cactusboy]

many here say it's wrong, but act like it's not a big deal...a boys will be boys thing and you for sure can't judgde them w/out having been in their shoes. It's a white washing.

 

If these people want to be consistent and not hypocrites they should use that logic/rationale across the board. USC cheated...oh that's common in college sports...why all the uproar. Women are beaten in Muslim countries...that's a common thing there, what's all the uproar about? The KKK used to lynch blacks....oh that wasn't uncommon back in the day. Why do people act like it's a big deal they did that?

 

I mean...of course all of the above is wrong...by let's not make a big deal of it...and for sure don't judge. Afterall we weren't in the KKK's, Muslim men, or USC's shoes.

 

Do you seriously not understand the concept of context? Or are you just trolling here? I'm beginning to think your inability to understand where everyone else is coming from is a put-on. You cannot purport to be reasonable and yet have no ability to grasp where the other side of this conversation is coming from, and your examples are becoming more and more extreme - to the point of absurdity.

 

I've said there is context more than once. I understand that...but many here seem to think that context far more important than it should be. They give a token, "it's wrong..punish them" but then seem to virtually totally excuse them. I'm the one w/ the reasonable view on this incident. If I use extreme analogies it's because others keep trying to go to the other extreme w/ their whitewashing.

 

 

No one, and I'll repeat no one on this thread who has stated their opinion which magically happen to be different from yours [i know, impossible to fathom, because everyone should be reasonable like you] has said they condoned these actions. No one has said they are excusable. Everyone thinks that what those Marines did was wrong.

 

What we're trying to argue is that these instances are common in times of war, hence the whole concept of context, which behaviors seem to attach too [if you missed it, look up a couple of posts where I give an explanation] Contexts drive a whole lot of our behaviors wether you would like to believe it or not. Does it make any action excusable? NO! But that's not the point. The point is is that it makes their actions understandable.

 

You're confusing understandability with condoning.

 

no, there is just a fine line between understanding and excusing and I saw some crossing this line. and yes there are shades of gray in these things.

 

and back to the OP and others' point. How exactly has the media overreacted on this story? If some on here aren't trying to dimish what they did how much should the media reported on it? Was it in the new for more than even 2 days? I think the media gives them about the right amount of coverage, if not enough. How many are familar w/ the story where our military went and premeditarily raped a little girl and then murdered her and her family? I bet only vaguely know the story and probabl not because they heard about it in the media. I don't think they need to make these things front page stories for days or anything, but they should report on them at least at the level they have been.

 

 

Anyway, I think we've discussed this as much as we can.

[knapplc]

The only overreacting I'm seeing in this thread is in your posts, OG.

[Sub-Husker]

So you think family values as it relates to children doesn't involve examples parents set? Sorry, but that thought process is amazingly stupid. Families extend beyond just children. Family values probably do not include getting a beejer from your lardass intern while your daughter watches your complete self-destruction on TV.

 

Bill Clinton's point was that we should invest in our children (education, school lunches, etc), not bring them up in Christian housholds with "newtonian" values.

 

Being called stupid by the Green Lantern is like being called a fat by Jabba the Hut... thank you!

 

Did you deliberately delete the first part of Clinton's post, or were you premature in jumping to post something you assumed met your agenda?

[It'sNotAFakeID]

many here say it's wrong, but act like it's not a big deal...a boys will be boys thing and you for sure can't judgde them w/out having been in their shoes. It's a white washing.

 

If these people want to be consistent and not hypocrites they should use that logic/rationale across the board. USC cheated...oh that's common in college sports...why all the uproar. Women are beaten in Muslim countries...that's a common thing there, what's all the uproar about? The KKK used to lynch blacks....oh that wasn't uncommon back in the day. Why do people act like it's a big deal they did that?

 

I mean...of course all of the above is wrong...by let's not make a big deal of it...and for sure don't judge. Afterall we weren't in the KKK's, Muslim men, or USC's shoes.

 

Do you seriously not understand the concept of context? Or are you just trolling here? I'm beginning to think your inability to understand where everyone else is coming from is a put-on. You cannot purport to be reasonable and yet have no ability to grasp where the other side of this conversation is coming from, and your examples are becoming more and more extreme - to the point of absurdity.

 

I've said there is context more than once. I understand that...but many here seem to think that context far more important than it should be. They give a token, "it's wrong..punish them" but then seem to virtually totally excuse them. I'm the one w/ the reasonable view on this incident. If I use extreme analogies it's because others keep trying to go to the other extreme w/ their whitewashing.

 

 

No one, and I'll repeat no one on this thread who has stated their opinion which magically happen to be different from yours [i know, impossible to fathom, because everyone should be reasonable like you] has said they condoned these actions. No one has said they are excusable. Everyone thinks that what those Marines did was wrong.

 

What we're trying to argue is that these instances are common in times of war, hence the whole concept of context, which behaviors seem to attach too [if you missed it, look up a couple of posts where I give an explanation] Contexts drive a whole lot of our behaviors wether you would like to believe it or not. Does it make any action excusable? NO! But that's not the point. The point is is that it makes their actions understandable.

 

You're confusing understandability with condoning.

 

no, there is just a fine line between understanding and excusing and I saw some crossing this line. and yes there are shades of gray in these things.

 

and back to the OP and others' point. How exactly has the media overreacted on this story? If some on here aren't trying to dimish what they did how much should the media reported on it? Was it in the new for more than even 2 days? I think the media gives them about the right amount of coverage, if not enough. How many are familar w/ the story where our military went and premeditarily raped a little girl and then murdered her and her family? I bet only vaguely know the story and probabl not because they heard about it in the media. I don't think they need to make these things front page stories for days or anything, but they should report on them at least at the level they have been.

 

 

Anyway, I think we've discussed this as much as we can.

 

And there are countless and countless of other instances too. What about My Lai? That got it's fair share of coverage. What happened to those soldiers? I'll let you figure that out.

 

We are all responsible for our own actions. Nothing we do is excusable, merely understandable. Understandability doesn't make something excusable.