How has the Marine Urination fiasco missed Huskerboard?

[HeyBurke]

We actually talked about this about our pool function a couple weeks ago. Our Marine recruiters said that the Marines who committed the act should at least be demoted, if not kicked out of the Corps entirely. But, they did say stuff like this happens all the time, it's just a matter of whether or not somebody records it.

 

 

again...that just sounds like we shoudl just all expect and accept it. I would have asked what they are doing to stop/prevent it...and whatever that is it's obviously not enough if it "happens all the time".

 

No, that's not what they were trying to say. In fact, all of the recruiters were strongly in favor of these Marines getting their asses booted from the Corps. They were just trying to tell us that stuff like this happens all the time, and it's nearly impossible to stop it from happening.

 

 

They can't make them do 50 push ups w/ their face in camel dung when they catch them doing it...or is our military full of that many lost cause low lifes that even that woudln't stop/prevent it?? I'm wanting to assume the latter isn't the case. I realize you probably don't know the answer, but I'd like to ask the recruiters that question.

 

Also, just so you know, I'm not defending these Marines. If this whole thing turns out to be true, I hope they get discharged ASAP. This kind of behavior is despicable and should not be tolerated. All I'm doing is trying to explain why stuff like this happens.

[redblooded]

It's amusing to me (in a sad way) that we send these kids halfway around the world to both kill and be killed and/or maimed by the "enemy" then get upset not that they did it but that they weren't respectful enough to the people they killed after the fact.

 

The video is downright stupid, but it's a war, a lot worse then that is going on.

[Cactusboy]

We actually talked about this about our pool function a couple weeks ago. Our Marine recruiters said that the Marines who committed the act should at least be demoted, if not kicked out of the Corps entirely. But, they did say stuff like this happens all the time, it's just a matter of whether or not somebody records it.

 

 

again...that just sounds like we shoudl just all expect and accept it. I would have asked what they are doing to stop/prevent it...and whatever that is it's obviously not enough if it "happens all the time".

 

No, that's not what they were trying to say. In fact, all of the recruiters were strongly in favor of these Marines getting their asses booted from the Corps. They were just trying to tell us that stuff like this happens all the time, and it's nearly impossible to stop it from happening.

 

 

They can't make them do 50 push ups w/ their face in camel dung when they catch them doing it...or is our military full of that many lost cause low lifes that even that woudln't stop/prevent it?? I'm wanting to assume the latter isn't the case. I realize you probably don't know the answer, but I'd like to ask the recruiters that question.

 

Also, just so you know, I'm not defending these Marines. If this whole thing turns out to be true, I hope they get discharged ASAP. This kind of behavior is despicable and should not be tolerated. All I'm doing is trying to explain why stuff like this happens.

 

I know you're just the messenger. I just don't accept that it has to be a "these things always happen". How I see it, they just don't care enough to greatly lower the number of times it happens.

[Cactusboy]

It's amusing to me (in a sad way) that we send these kids halfway around the world to both kill and be killed and/or maimed by the "enemy" then get upset not that they did it but that they weren't respectful enough to the people they killed after the fact.

 

The video is downright stupid, but it's a war, a lot worse then that is going on.

 

 

Which is anohter reason as to why you ONLY go to war as a LAST resort.

[redblooded]

It's amusing to me (in a sad way) that we send these kids halfway around the world to both kill and be killed and/or maimed by the "enemy" then get upset not that they did it but that they weren't respectful enough to the people they killed after the fact.

 

The video is downright stupid, but it's a war, a lot worse then that is going on.

 

 

Which is anohter reason as to why you ONLY go to war as a LAST resort.

 

I agree, but if it wasn't portrayed as some noble effort that's so surgical there's almost no "collateral" damage, maybe that would be easier.

[JJ Husker]

It's amusing to me (in a sad way) that we send these kids halfway around the world to both kill and be killed and/or maimed by the "enemy" then get upset not that they did it but that they weren't respectful enough to the people they killed after the fact.

 

The video is downright stupid, but it's a war, a lot worse then that is going on.

 

 

Which is anohter reason as to why you ONLY go to war as a LAST resort.

I agree that war should be a last resort and that this behavior should not be shrugged off as, oh well that'll happen. But, until I've walked in their shoes and been in the same circumstances they are thrust into in war, I'm not going to sit here and be overly judgemental of actions like this. I don't like it but I do think I can imagine how things like this come about. I think you might need to lower your level of indignation cactusboyOG unless you're willing to be put into the same situation or unless you've already been there. The saying "war is hell" exists for a reason. Really what's worse? Urinating on a dead body or the actual act of creating that dead body? I don't think most of us are in any position to judge these actions.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

It's amusing to me (in a sad way) that we send these kids halfway around the world to both kill and be killed and/or maimed by the "enemy" then get upset not that they did it but that they weren't respectful enough to the people they killed after the fact.

 

The video is downright stupid, but it's a war, a lot worse then that is going on.

 

 

Which is anohter reason as to why you ONLY go to war as a LAST resort.

I agree that war should be a last resort and that this behavior should not be shrugged off as, oh well that'll happen. But, until I've walked in their shoes and been in the same circumstances they are thrust into in war, I'm not going to sit here and be overly judgemental of actions like this. I don't like it but I do think I can imagine how things like this come about. I think you might need to lower your level of indignation cactusboyOG unless you're willing to be put into the same situation or unless you've already been there. The saying "war is hell" exists for a reason. Really what's worse? Urinating on a dead body or the actual act of creating that dead body? I don't think most of us are in any position to judge these actions.

 

Exactly 100% on the ball. +1. All of us who have never served [and people like me who have rarely thought about it] have no proof that, given the same circumstances that were present at the time of this action [which I, DrumLine, and many others on this thread have NOT condoned], we wouldn't do the same. To say that we're better than that and have enough morality to spare pissing on a person whom we just killed is an absolute folly.

 

There's a psychological term for it: it's called a self-serving bias.

[Cactusboy]

It's amusing to me (in a sad way) that we send these kids halfway around the world to both kill and be killed and/or maimed by the "enemy" then get upset not that they did it but that they weren't respectful enough to the people they killed after the fact.

 

The video is downright stupid, but it's a war, a lot worse then that is going on.

 

 

Which is anohter reason as to why you ONLY go to war as a LAST resort.

I agree that war should be a last resort and that this behavior should not be shrugged off as, oh well that'll happen. But, until I've walked in their shoes and been in the same circumstances they are thrust into in war, I'm not going to sit here and be overly judgemental of actions like this. I don't like it but I do think I can imagine how things like this come about. I think you might need to lower your level of indignation cactusboyOG unless you're willing to be put into the same situation or unless you've already been there. The saying "war is hell" exists for a reason. Really what's worse? Urinating on a dead body or the actual act of creating that dead body? I don't think most of us are in any position to judge these actions.

 

I know people that have been in those wars and I can guarntee you they never pissed on any dead bodies. The "until you walk in their shoes" card doesn't work on this one...just as it didn't work on the people that took the pics of the prisoners that were released years ago. The superiors need to create an environment where it's known that this will not be tolerated....so they know they won't get a free pass even if it's not put out to the public. So most of this is on their superiors.

[Cactusboy]

It's amusing to me (in a sad way) that we send these kids halfway around the world to both kill and be killed and/or maimed by the "enemy" then get upset not that they did it but that they weren't respectful enough to the people they killed after the fact.

 

The video is downright stupid, but it's a war, a lot worse then that is going on.

 

 

Which is anohter reason as to why you ONLY go to war as a LAST resort.

I agree that war should be a last resort and that this behavior should not be shrugged off as, oh well that'll happen. But, until I've walked in their shoes and been in the same circumstances they are thrust into in war, I'm not going to sit here and be overly judgemental of actions like this. I don't like it but I do think I can imagine how things like this come about. I think you might need to lower your level of indignation cactusboyOG unless you're willing to be put into the same situation or unless you've already been there. The saying "war is hell" exists for a reason. Really what's worse? Urinating on a dead body or the actual act of creating that dead body? I don't think most of us are in any position to judge these actions.

 

Exactly 100% on the ball. +1. All of us who have never served [and people like me who have rarely thought about it] have no proof that, given the same circumstances that were present at the time of this action [which I, DrumLine, and many others on this thread have NOT condoned], we wouldn't do the same. To say that we're better than that and have enough morality to spare pissing on a person whom we just killed is an absolute folly.

 

There's a psychological term for it: it's called a self-serving bias.

 

 

so what if they raped them while they were dead in front of their mothers? Do I have to have been in war to judge them for that?

[Sub-Husker]

Boys will be boys.

[redblooded]

It's amusing to me (in a sad way) that we send these kids halfway around the world to both kill and be killed and/or maimed by the "enemy" then get upset not that they did it but that they weren't respectful enough to the people they killed after the fact.

 

The video is downright stupid, but it's a war, a lot worse then that is going on.

 

 

Which is anohter reason as to why you ONLY go to war as a LAST resort.

I agree that war should be a last resort and that this behavior should not be shrugged off as, oh well that'll happen. But, until I've walked in their shoes and been in the same circumstances they are thrust into in war, I'm not going to sit here and be overly judgemental of actions like this. I don't like it but I do think I can imagine how things like this come about. I think you might need to lower your level of indignation cactusboyOG unless you're willing to be put into the same situation or unless you've already been there. The saying "war is hell" exists for a reason. Really what's worse? Urinating on a dead body or the actual act of creating that dead body? I don't think most of us are in any position to judge these actions.

 

Exactly 100% on the ball. +1. All of us who have never served [and people like me who have rarely thought about it] have no proof that, given the same circumstances that were present at the time of this action [which I, DrumLine, and many others on this thread have NOT condoned], we wouldn't do the same. To say that we're better than that and have enough morality to spare pissing on a person whom we just killed is an absolute folly.

 

There's a psychological term for it: it's called a self-serving bias.

 

 

so what if they raped them while they were dead in front of their mothers? Do I have to have been in war to judge them for that?

 

Yes and no. Dehumanizing the enemy is a huge part of being able to kill another human being in war and would undoubtedly become easier and easier as you lost friends. So pretty much those aren't human corpses they are pissing on. They are the sub-human animals that have killed and maimed their friends.

 

Earlier when I said I found it amusing that the outrage is about this rather then killing a human being that's what I meant. We send these young kids over to kill people for us and expect them to treat the people we trained them not to view as people, told them are not worthy of life, that kill and wound their friends with the same respect they'd give to a friend that died? It's hypocritical not only to what they've been taught in order to justify what they do but hypocritical to the very act of war. It's not a human before they kill an enemy that would have gladly killed them, but somehow they turn into people worthy of respect once they are dead?

 

This is what bothers me about things like the geneva convention. It's rules for war, but if you hate someone enough there are no rules except they need to die instead of you and nobody will ever follow them if it was the difference between winning or losing. The fact we use laser guided/gps guided bombs and avoid "collateral" damage when we can seems great and all but it's obvious the people we are at war with would never worry about that crap. So beyond how you treat POWs it's worthless and even then we've shown we'll try and get around things like torture as much as possible. So it turns into a huge hypocritical argument about symantics and just how far is too far. When in war, by it's very nature, there is no to far since the goal is to kill people that disagree with you.

[Sub-Husker]

They are the sub-human animals that have killed and maimed their friends.

 

Which side?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/25/us-marine-haditha-case-spared-jail

[redblooded]

They are the sub-human animals that have killed and maimed their friends.

 

Which side?

 

http://www.guardian....ase-spared-jail

 

The winning side. That's who gets to decide things like that. I'm sure both sides think the same about eachother on the battlefield. It's not like there haven't been US soldiers beheadded or drug through streets in these wars... Think they were talking about what that'd do in America propaganda wise in those countries? I'd bet they were, and I'd also bet that it wasn't entirely as enthusiastic as we've been led to believe.

[JJ Husker]

so what if they raped them while they were dead in front of their mothers? Do I have to have been in war to judge them for that?

Yes, and not only have been in war but also know all of the factors that led up to it. And I don't care how depraved or heinous you make your straw man sound. I could make up a hypothetical situation where many would feel raping their dead body in front of their mother was absolutely justified. The point is you don't know enough about it to be quite so indignate. Say it's a bad thing. Say it should not go unpunished. Say that things need to be fixed. But you might want to stop somewhere shy of nailing them to the cross. Who are you to judge anyone in a wartime situation from a simple photograph?

 

Once again, I am not condoning the behavior and I do not feel their superiors should allow an environment where this type of thing is overlooked but, NO ONE can say for sure how they would react to the severe extremes of human nature and emotion that war has a way of bringing out. I don't want to play the age card but you will figure out as you get older that things are not as clear cut as you think they are when you're younger. I know you won't believe that or listen to it but you will realize it more and more as you age. I'm pushing 50 and trust me, I've been there.

[Cactusboy]

 

 

Yes and no. Dehumanizing the enemy is a huge part of being able to kill another human being in war and would undoubtedly become easier and easier as you lost friends. So pretty much those aren't human corpses they are pissing on. They are the sub-human animals that have killed and maimed their friends.

 

Earlier when I said I found it amusing that the outrage is about this rather then killing a human being that's what I meant. We send these young kids over to kill people for us and expect them to treat the people we trained them not to view as people, told them are not worthy of life, that kill and wound their friends with the same respect they'd give to a friend that died? It's hypocritical not only to what they've been taught in order to justify what they do but hypocritical to the very act of war. It's not a human before they kill an enemy that would have gladly killed them, but somehow they turn into people worthy of respect once they are dead?

 

This is what bothers me about things like the geneva convention. It's rules for war, but if you hate someone enough there are no rules except they need to die instead of you and nobody will ever follow them if it was the difference between winning or losing. The fact we use laser guided/gps guided bombs and avoid "collateral" damage when we can seems great and all but it's obvious the people we are at war with would never worry about that crap. So beyond how you treat POWs it's worthless and even then we've shown we'll try and get around things like torture as much as possible. So it turns into a huge hypocritical argument about symantics and just how far is too far. When in war, by it's very nature, there is no to far since the goal is to kill people that disagree with you.

 

 

Then why can so many do it the right way and not do stupid things like pissing on dead bodies? You can try to try to rationalize all typs of wrong behavior. I'm sure Mike Tyson could use the same logic for biting Holyfield's ear.