Trayvon Martin and "Stand Your Ground" in FL

[Mavric]

Right about the third, which is why I said "Neither I nor you know why he did that" to point out that Ziggy's premise was errant. I wasn't making a statement of fact, I was showing that his statement is not fact.

 

RE: The fourth bold - we have Zimmerman's testimony, both during the police investigation and during the trial, where he states he left his vehicle to pursue Martin. I don't see how that's incorrect.

Where?

 

Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of the teen and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to a police dispatcher.

 

Full Article

[Ziggy]

By all accounts he was the person on top pummeling Zimmerman, which is illegal, he used concrete as a weapon, which is attempted murder, or assault with a deadly weapon.

No. That's not "using a weapon."

 

Explain how that is not using a weapon? If I push someone into a wood chipper, that's not using a weapon?

[Junior]

My assumption that Martin threw the first punch is based on post investigation facts that say Martin had abrasions on his knuckles consistent with punching someone, while Zimmerman had none of the same.

 

Zimmerman said that Martin grabbed his gun... yet there is no DNA evidence to support this. So why am I supposed to believe the rest of his story?

"Grabbed his gun" or reached for his gun? There is a big difference.

 

Zimmerman then described how Trayvon got on top of him and kept punching him as he yelled for help and when he felt him go for his gun, he took it out and shot him.

 

Full Article

 

 

 

There's just always something to contradict Zimmerman's story. Here, it is his own friend.

 

http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Prosecutors-attack-Zimmerman-story-several-ways-4641973.php

 

Late Tuesday morning, the prosecution questioned Mark Osterman, a Zimmerman friend who spoke with him after the shooting and later wrote a book about the case.

Under questioning by de la Rionda, Osterman said that Zimmerman told him Martin had grabbed his gun during their struggle, but that Zimmerman was able to pull it away.

That account is different from what Zimmerman told investigators in multiple interviews. In those interviews, he only said it appeared Martin was reaching for his gun prior to the shooting. He never told police the teen grabbed it.

 

"I thought he had said he grabbed the gun," Osterman said. "I believe he said he grabbed the gun.".

[carlfense]

He grabbed at his gun, he had the gun holstered.

How could he grab at a holstered and concealed gun?

[knapplc]

 

1. ok

2. I never said it was a crime, I said he could have hung up with his friend and called 911 or his father if he felt he was in danger from Zimmerman.

3. You have no evidence to back the second statement up, we only know Zimmerman was a legal conceal carry permit owner, not if he had it out, conceal, waving it around, pointing it etc. Zimmerman maintained he concealed it until Martin make a move toward it at which point he pulled it and fired killing Martin.

4. All well within his rights.

5. So because he got out of his car, Martin is dead, not because Martin got into an altercation with Zimmerman. Martin was out of Zimmerman's field of vision before Zimmerman got out of his car. Martin could have very easily made it home without every getting into that fight. Both parties are equally at fault for the altercation happening.

 

6. Following someone is not an excuse to get into a fight with someone, nor is it alright to slam a persons head into concrete. By all accounts he was the person on top pummeling Zimmerman, which is illegal, he used concrete as a weapon, which is attempted murder, or assault with a deadly weapon.

 

I don't understand your insistence that Martin was doing something wrong here. It seems as if you've got your mind made up that he's dead because he deserved to be, and nothing Zimmerman did was wrong. You've got a kid walking home from a 7-11 who ends up dead, and every post seems to try to make him out to be the instigator, and you have no evidence to support that.

 

The mere fact that it is not illegal to pursue someone when you're carrying a firearm doesn't make it prudent, nor does it mean you were right to do so.

 

Yes, because Zimmerman got out of his car, Martin is dead. Case in point - I drive by people every day whom I don't shoot to death. Granted, that evidence is anecdotal, but the likelihood of them or me dying rises exponentially when I don't drive on by and continue with my life, but instead get out and pursue them on foot. How does Martin die if Zimmerman keeps driving to the store?

[Landlord]

5. So because he got out of his car, Martin is dead, not because Martin got into an altercation with Zimmerman. Martin was out of Zimmerman's field of vision before Zimmerman got out of his car. Martin could have very easily made it home without every getting into that fight. Both parties are equally at fault for the altercation happening.

 

 

Wrong. Zimmerman getting out of his car prompted Martin's response. Yes, Martin could have chose a different set of actions, but the actions he did choose were made in response to being followed and confronted. Zimmerman is still at fault and still the catalyst for the entire thing.

 

You're trying way too hard on this and it's disturbing.

[Ziggy]

He grabbed at his gun, he had the gun holstered.

How could he grab at a holstered and concealed gun?

 

It became unconcealed during the altercation, is what Zimmerman told police. Martin was wearing a hoodie, and Zimmerman had on a jacket which concealed his gun IIRC.

[Mavric]

He grabbed at his gun, he had the gun holstered.

How could he grab at a holstered and concealed gun?

How do you know it was still concealed?

[carlfense]

By all accounts he was the person on top pummeling Zimmerman, which is illegal, he used concrete as a weapon, which is attempted murder, or assault with a deadly weapon.

No. That's not "using a weapon."

 

Explain how that is not using a weapon? If I push someone into a wood chipper, that's not using a weapon?

That's not how it works. If you want to say that Martin used a weapon you have to prove that he used a weapon . . . I don't have to prove that he didn't use a weapon.

 

If it had been hard packed dirt, would you be trying to claim that he used dirt as a weapon?

 

(Now if you pick up a chunk of concrete and hit someone with it . . . that would be "using a weapon.")

[knapplc]

Right about the third, which is why I said "Neither I nor you know why he did that" to point out that Ziggy's premise was errant. I wasn't making a statement of fact, I was showing that his statement is not fact.

 

RE: The fourth bold - we have Zimmerman's testimony, both during the police investigation and during the trial, where he states he left his vehicle to pursue Martin. I don't see how that's incorrect.

Where?

 

Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of the teen and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to a police dispatcher.

 

Full Article

 

At this point, the dispatcher asked Zimmerman, “Are you following him?” – referring to Martin. When Zimmerman said he was, the dispatcher said, “OK. We don’t need you to do that.”

 

Full Article

[carlfense]

You're trying way too hard on this and it's disturbing.

It kind of makes you wonder why . . .

 

In fact, I can understand passionate feelings regarding the death of an unarmed teenager . . . but it is very hard for me to understand passionate feelings on behalf of Zimmerman . . .

[Junior]

Here we go again:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-shoots-teen-loud-music-article-1.1209345

 

A Florida man asked a group of teens at a gas station to turn down the loud music blaring from their car and, after an exchange of words, opened fire on the vehicle, killing a 17-year-old boy, authorities said.

Michael Dunn, 45, of Satellite Beach, has been charged with murder for the Friday slaying of Jordan Davis, 17, a black high school student from the Jacksonville area.

His lawyer said Dunn, who is white, thought he saw a gun and felt threatened during the incident, indicating that he may seek protection under the state’s controversial Stand Your Ground Law, according to local reports.

[Ziggy]

5. So because he got out of his car, Martin is dead, not because Martin got into an altercation with Zimmerman. Martin was out of Zimmerman's field of vision before Zimmerman got out of his car. Martin could have very easily made it home without every getting into that fight. Both parties are equally at fault for the altercation happening.

 

 

Wrong. Zimmerman getting out of his car prompted Martin's response. Yes, Martin could have chose a different set of actions, but the actions he did choose were made in response to being followed and confronted. Zimmerman is still at fault and still the catalyst for the entire thing.

 

You're trying way too hard on this and it's disturbing.

 

I am not blaming Martin for Zimmerman getting out of his car. I am merely using the actual evidence to construct what jurors used to made their determination. If every time someone got out of a car after they appeared to be following me I would have had a lot of run ins with the law. By your logic only Zimmerman is responsible for his actions.

 

You and I have no evidence showing that Zimmerman confronted Martin. Zimmerman told the police that he went to go find an address to send the police when they got to the area. He never wavered during any of the questioning that police put him through about his timeline.

[Landlord]

Here we go again:

 

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1209345

 

A Florida man asked a group of teens at a gas station to turn down the loud music blaring from their car and, after an exchange of words, opened fire on the vehicle, killing a 17-year-old boy, authorities said.

 

Michael Dunn, 45, of Satellite Beach, has been charged with murder for the Friday slaying of Jordan Davis, 17, a black high school student from the Jacksonville area.

 

 

 

His lawyer said Dunn, who is white, thought he saw a gun and felt threatened during the incident, indicating that he may seek protection under the state’s controversial Stand Your Ground Law, according to local reports.

 

 

This is a year old.

[Ziggy]

You're trying way too hard on this and it's disturbing.

It kind of makes you wonder why . . .

 

In fact, I can understand passionate feelings regarding the death of an unarmed teenager . . . but it is very hard for me to understand passionate feelings on behalf of Zimmerman . . .

 

Because I am tired of people making it out that somehow our judicial system failed us every time a jury chooses not to hand out what the public deems is right based on opinions and what the media has pushed since they sensationalized the whole thing.