In defense of the 2-gap and this coaching staff

[BLACK22Trap]

A lot of heat coming down onto this style of play and I would just like to register and post in defense of the current system.

 

I played DE and was taught to do something very similar to what our D line is taught now. Get into your mans chest- stand him up- feel which way he is trying to take you and react. "read and react" 2 gap responsibility. A matter of fact our coach wanted a good 1-2 power steps out of stance(thats all). Always stay home to stop the reverse. Obviously these are some general rules but when you go any further up field you take yourself out of the play. You may be screaming for Merideth to rush the QB, but odds are he is doing a better job staying right where he is on his gaps containing the QB. Once he goes anywhere else that opens up a running lane.

 

I see why some of you want to lick your chops, pin your hair back and get up field, but I PROMISE that we would make way more mistakes and be 3 times as frustrated as we are right now. The 2 gap is the way to go.

 

Mcbride claims you need a very strong man to control 2 gaps? I disagree. How strong must a tackle be to get into his guys numbers? The other guy cant even use his hands? If he is double teamed, perfect- bring both guys down with you and roll into the play- and likely someone else is open to make the play(i.e SUH/CRICK)

 

We saw what this system can do back when we had the right players to run it. i.e 2009? with SUH and crew. Alabama literally said we had the better defense that year and that we made a lot fewer mistakes. That is because our guys were not rampaging up field. GAP CONTROL FOOTBALL/ASSIGNMENT FOOTBALL

 

Yes Alabama looks awesome being aggresive, but they also have the best players in just about every position on the field. When you have that it doesn't matter what system you run, youll likely win. ALSO Alabama and the SEC will pay for their oversigning and cutting of scholarships. It is very disgusting what kind of operation those teams are running and it is clear they are operating on a "win at all costs" model. It will not sustain.

 

I just want to touch on the UCLA loss. Yes frustrating. But I didn't see any comments about how those kids(UCLA) dont even start class until sept 24? I read that somehwere. Are those kids just hanging out playing football until then or are they in summer classes? Also, they had rice first and we had USM. Who do you think they were practicing for all spring summer fall? We HAD to put decent prep time into USM, they are always a very salty team. Either way, the end of the year will define the loss to UCLA and if we would have made 1-2 more plays EVERYONE would be picking us to win the B1G.

We made just about every mistake in the book and we were still in the game until the very end.... that is worth a shout out.

 

We've seen what our defense can be like when hitting on all cylinders and this year is the first time we will see our offense hitting on all cylinders. In time they will both hit at the same time and that is when we will shoot for a nat title. I am looking for this to happen next year

[Undone]

Bottom line - Our 2009 defense is proof enough that the scheme can work.

 

But if that's the premise, then there's really only one conclusion to the present situation, and that is that our 2008, 2009, and largely the 2010 recruiting classes did not produce defensive linemen (and linebackers) capable of making it work for us now.

[BLACK22Trap]

Ive been reading for awhile and the best post was from the gentleman who broke down the production of the recruiting classes over the last 2-3 years. That should literally be the only post about the defense on this forum IMO. He put the proof in the pudding about the talent we have and thats that. But it sounds like the coaches are trying everything they can to shuffle people around and recruit on the JUCO level.

 

It just doesn't make any sense to me to change to a 1 gap control when our LB's are already suspect. They would have more responsibility with the change, would they not?

[NUinID]

Ive been reading for awhile and the best post was from the gentleman who broke down the production of the recruiting classes over the last 2-3 years. That should literally be the only post about the defense on this forum IMO. He put the proof in the pudding about the talent we have and thats that. But it sounds like the coaches are trying everything they can to shuffle people around and recruit on the JUCO level.

 

It just doesn't make any sense to me to change to a 1 gap control when our LB's are already suspect. They would have more responsibility with the change, would they not?

 

Yes, they would have more responsibility. Most also don't remember that back in the 90's Nebraska played 11 robber or man free in the secondary almost exclusively. Teams wern't playing the spread with 4 wides and a rb with 2 yard splits. on the O-line. NU would man up at the corners and the free safely sorta roam around. The strong safety played a lot more run support. Most the time NU had 8 in the box, becuase they could. Spurriers Fun and Gun threw the ball a lot but it was mostly out of traditional sets. Not as much trips open a lot more pro and miami sets.

[Blackshirt316]

IMO the big issues with the 2 gap have very little to do with the D-Line.

 

The main thing the 2-gap does in the passing game is allow the line to clog the throwing lanes to take away the quick short routes and force the QB to hold the ball and make the longer throws into tight coverage.

 

Which as we saw works brilliantly - when you have multiple NFL quality defensive backs playing in the secondary like we did in 2008 and 2009 that can make those windows incredibly small.

 

The problem comes when you don't have that NFL talent in the secondary (or you do but it's young and raw talent) and thus those small windows become large enough for the QB to start completing those passes with no pressure in his face making him move off his spot.

 

 

So it's not really a queston of if it can work - it can, we've seen it.. it's more a question of can it work every year even when you don't have an elite veteran secondary behind it.

[zoogs]

Welcome to the board, good sir! A highly knowledgeable, informative post. Appreciate your insight.

 

By the way, I thought Saban was maybe the only other guy in college football who ran a similar scheme to Bo's read-and-react coverages.

[Count 'Bility]

Welcome to the board, good sir! A highly knowledgeable, informative post. Appreciate your insight.

 

By the way, I thought Saban was maybe the only other guy in college football who ran a similar scheme to Bo's read-and-react coverages.

 

Youre right, but with the buttloads of overwhelming talent he has at his disposal, Alambama's "read and react" looks like everyone else's "pants on fire attacking" D.

[Enhance]

The problem comes when you don't have that NFL talent in the secondary (or you do but it's young and raw talent) and thus those small windows become large enough for the QB to start completing those passes with no pressure in his face making him move off his spot.

The passing defense isn't a large concern for me. We finished last year with a Top 25 passing defense and we're currently ranked around 35th.

 

Our biggest problem was and continues to be rushing defense, evidenced by steadily increasing YPC averages opponents have against us. We allowed 2.9 YPC in '09, 3.9 in 2010, 4.0 in 2011 and we're now allowing a staggering 4.8 YPC IIRC. Our opponents call two run plays and almost have a first down. It's very poor, and this is a direct reflection of our front seven. For whatever reason, our linemen can't shed blocks on run plays and our linebackers can't get into the gaps to make tackles soon enough.

[MichiganDad3]

I still don't understand why you line up a yard off the LOS if you goal is to get into the offensive lineman's chest and get one or two power steps.

[broganreynik]

You may be screaming for Merideth to rush the QB, but odds are he is doing a better job staying right where he is on his gaps containing the QB. Once he goes anywhere else that opens up a running lane.

 

 

I'm the exact opposite. Hell, the only time I notice Meredith is when he's rushing upfield and loses containment, and I yell at the tv (or begrudgingly in my head if I'm at the game) "You've got to contain!". I have nothing against the scheme. It's the boneheaded plays like that when they go against the scheme.

[Blackshirt316]

The problem comes when you don't have that NFL talent in the secondary (or you do but it's young and raw talent) and thus those small windows become large enough for the QB to start completing those passes with no pressure in his face making him move off his spot.

The passing defense isn't a large concern for me. We finished last year with a Top 25 passing defense and we're currently ranked around 35th.

 

Our biggest problem was and continues to be rushing defense, evidenced by steadily increasing YPC averages opponents have against us. We allowed 2.9 YPC in '09, 3.9 in 2010, 4.0 in 2011 and we're now allowing a staggering 4.8 YPC IIRC. Our opponents call two run plays and almost have a first down. It's very poor, and this is a direct reflection of our front seven. For whatever reason, our linemen can't shed blocks on run plays and our linebackers can't get into the gaps to make tackles soon enough.

 

 

IMO that's an inintended byproduct of them trying to play perfect assignment football. IE it seems to me at times they are so focused about being exactly in the spot they are supposed to be that they forget about the rest of the play around them.

 

Almost like they are thinking, well I may not make the play but I won't get yelled at in the filmroom and won't get benched because I'm where I was supposed to be and executing my primary responsibility.

 

At least that's what my eyes tell me.

[307husker]

I'm tired of seeing Meredith follow the ball carrier. He never catches them, just follows behind...

[Enhance]

The problem comes when you don't have that NFL talent in the secondary (or you do but it's young and raw talent) and thus those small windows become large enough for the QB to start completing those passes with no pressure in his face making him move off his spot.

The passing defense isn't a large concern for me. We finished last year with a Top 25 passing defense and we're currently ranked around 35th.

 

Our biggest problem was and continues to be rushing defense, evidenced by steadily increasing YPC averages opponents have against us. We allowed 2.9 YPC in '09, 3.9 in 2010, 4.0 in 2011 and we're now allowing a staggering 4.8 YPC IIRC. Our opponents call two run plays and almost have a first down. It's very poor, and this is a direct reflection of our front seven. For whatever reason, our linemen can't shed blocks on run plays and our linebackers can't get into the gaps to make tackles soon enough.

 

 

IMO that's an inintended byproduct of them trying to play perfect assignment football. IE it seems to me at times they are so focused about being exactly in the spot they are supposed to be that they forget about the rest of the play around them.

 

Almost like they are thinking, well I may not make the play but I won't get yelled at in the filmroom and won't get benched because I'm where I was supposed to be and executing my primary responsibility.

 

At least that's what my eyes tell me.

I think that's as fair as any other critique we've heard. If this was the case, though, you'd have to wonder how the coaches are trying to get the players to fix their issues. They're the ones who break down the film and know exactly what they're looking for, and for whatever reason, the players can't put it onto the field.

['SkersRule]

A lot of heat coming down onto this style of play and I would just like to register and post in defense of the current system.

 

I played DE and was taught to do something very similar to what our D line is taught now. Get into your mans chest- stand him up- feel which way he is trying to take you and react. "read and react" 2 gap responsibility. A matter of fact our coach wanted a good 1-2 power steps out of stance(thats all). Always stay home to stop the reverse. Obviously these are some general rules but when you go any further up field you take yourself out of the play. You may be screaming for Merideth to rush the QB, but odds are he is doing a better job staying right where he is on his gaps containing the QB. Once he goes anywhere else that opens up a running lane.

 

I see why some of you want to lick your chops, pin your hair back and get up field, but I PROMISE that we would make way more mistakes and be 3 times as frustrated as we are right now. The 2 gap is the way to go.

 

Mcbride claims you need a very strong man to control 2 gaps? I disagree. How strong must a tackle be to get into his guys numbers? The other guy cant even use his hands? If he is double teamed, perfect- bring both guys down with you and roll into the play- and likely someone else is open to make the play(i.e SUH/CRICK)

 

We saw what this system can do back when we had the right players to run it. i.e 2009? with SUH and crew. Alabama literally said we had the better defense that year and that we made a lot fewer mistakes. That is because our guys were not rampaging up field. GAP CONTROL FOOTBALL/ASSIGNMENT FOOTBALL

 

Yes Alabama looks awesome being aggresive, but they also have the best players in just about every position on the field. When you have that it doesn't matter what system you run, youll likely win. ALSO Alabama and the SEC will pay for their oversigning and cutting of scholarships. It is very disgusting what kind of operation those teams are running and it is clear they are operating on a "win at all costs" model. It will not sustain.

 

I just want to touch on the UCLA loss. Yes frustrating. But I didn't see any comments about how those kids(UCLA) dont even start class until sept 24? I read that somehwere. Are those kids just hanging out playing football until then or are they in summer classes? Also, they had rice first and we had USM. Who do you think they were practicing for all spring summer fall? We HAD to put decent prep time into USM, they are always a very salty team. Either way, the end of the year will define the loss to UCLA and if we would have made 1-2 more plays EVERYONE would be picking us to win the B1G.

We made just about every mistake in the book and we were still in the game until the very end.... that is worth a shout out.

 

We've seen what our defense can be like when hitting on all cylinders and this year is the first time we will see our offense hitting on all cylinders. In time they will both hit at the same time and that is when we will shoot for a nat title. I am looking for this to happen next year

 

The mid 90's Huskers defenses says that the "read and react" you're advocating is pretty much worthless. However, Kevin Cosgrove's defensive style completely agrees with you.

 

And for the record Uncle Rico....I played DT...and I only worried about a screen or draw when I saw the tell tale signs of pulling lineman or one that let me go without any real resistance. In other words, I played fast and aggressive, but I kept my head up and played with smarts.

 

The best defenses we ever had here at Nebraska, those from the 90's run, played fast and aggressive and didn't worry about getting beat. Because they knew that if they played mean, fast, aggressive, and full bore on every snap by the time the offense "popped" a big play the Huskers would be up by 50 and it wouldn't matter.

[totengur]

A lot of heat coming down onto this style of play and I would just like to register and post in defense of the current system.

 

I played DE and was taught to do something very similar to what our D line is taught now. Get into your mans chest- stand him up- feel which way he is trying to take you and react. "read and react" 2 gap responsibility. A matter of fact our coach wanted a good 1-2 power steps out of stance(thats all). Always stay home to stop the reverse. Obviously these are some general rules but when you go any further up field you take yourself out of the play. You may be screaming for Merideth to rush the QB, but odds are he is doing a better job staying right where he is on his gaps containing the QB. Once he goes anywhere else that opens up a running lane.

 

I see why some of you want to lick your chops, pin your hair back and get up field, but I PROMISE that we would make way more mistakes and be 3 times as frustrated as we are right now. The 2 gap is the way to go.

 

Mcbride claims you need a very strong man to control 2 gaps? I disagree. How strong must a tackle be to get into his guys numbers? The other guy cant even use his hands? If he is double teamed, perfect- bring both guys down with you and roll into the play- and likely someone else is open to make the play(i.e SUH/CRICK)

 

We saw what this system can do back when we had the right players to run it. i.e 2009? with SUH and crew. Alabama literally said we had the better defense that year and that we made a lot fewer mistakes. That is because our guys were not rampaging up field. GAP CONTROL FOOTBALL/ASSIGNMENT FOOTBALL

 

Yes Alabama looks awesome being aggresive, but they also have the best players in just about every position on the field. When you have that it doesn't matter what system you run, youll likely win. ALSO Alabama and the SEC will pay for their oversigning and cutting of scholarships. It is very disgusting what kind of operation those teams are running and it is clear they are operating on a "win at all costs" model. It will not sustain.

 

I just want to touch on the UCLA loss. Yes frustrating. But I didn't see any comments about how those kids(UCLA) dont even start class until sept 24? I read that somehwere. Are those kids just hanging out playing football until then or are they in summer classes? Also, they had rice first and we had USM. Who do you think they were practicing for all spring summer fall? We HAD to put decent prep time into USM, they are always a very salty team. Either way, the end of the year will define the loss to UCLA and if we would have made 1-2 more plays EVERYONE would be picking us to win the B1G.

We made just about every mistake in the book and we were still in the game until the very end.... that is worth a shout out.

 

We've seen what our defense can be like when hitting on all cylinders and this year is the first time we will see our offense hitting on all cylinders. In time they will both hit at the same time and that is when we will shoot for a nat title. I am looking for this to happen next year

 

 

I'll disagree with you in the spirit of good debate.

 

2 gap for the 09 huskers worked due too the SUH factor, Crick, Allen, and CO often only had one blocker too deal with due too double even triple teams on Suh. The scheme in theory is fine, but it is over complicated for our current defensive line.

 

If a guy wants results, he has too adjust his scheme too his personnel and keep it stupid simple so that mistakes are few, if you don't you get Bill Callahanesque results, only difference is that idiot did it on the offensive side of the ball.

 

In a situation like this you have too adjust too your strengths and Pelini right now is being stubborn about it. He likes this scheme, but his kids are struggling too execute it consistently.

Even in 2010 and 2011 you could see that despite Cricks talents, he could not do what SUH did, he needed help, and no else on the team was able too step up, and thus people began having success running on us which coincidentally set up the pass game, and before long NU is giving up 30+ points against good teams with decent O-lines.

 

You said above "Mcbride claims you need a very strong man to control 2 gaps? I disagree. How strong must a tackle be to get into his guys numbers?".

It isn't about getting into his numbers as we saw with Suh who ran it too perfection, he often kept linemen at an arms length, too preserve his mobility. He kept his head up too identify the play, and reacted, often filling the correct gap and stuffing the play. He was also athletic enough too cover his mistakes when he made them, which weren't very often. Too many husker defenders stayed engaged when they should have filled a gap, or gotten off a block too make a tackle. If you aren't strong enough too shed the blocker and stop the guy running right by you than it's hard too run this scheme. If you aren't strong enough too keep a 6-5 300 pd + lineman from sealing you off from a certain gap, you can't play this scheme. And our kids have at times struggled in this department often when confronted by only one lineman.

 

Your theory is further injured in the post Suh world by Nebraska's sudden failings against Running QB's with decent teams supporting them, AKA not Minnesota. I don't need too remind people here how badly Wisconsin Obliterated the 2 gap scheme in last years game. Even a Struggling Ohio state with a Frosh QB had some success running. the 09 D stifled running QB's through Suh's ridiculous quickness, if he didn't make the play he often by that time had taken so many blackers with him someone else did.

This year and last years team tries too contain, but the gaps between defenders as we saw versus Wisconsin and other teams were too big for our talent, too often we see Meredith arriving at the gap the back is going through a second too late.

 

 

I think this is a good defense, when you have the guys, you are correct there.

 

But right now NU can't run it.

 

I think we should put it on the shelf and bring it back out when it is appropriate as per the talent. right now too preserve what could be still yet a special season we need too simplify the scheme, make it execution oriented much like Mike leach did with the red raiders offense years ago. It was simple, and therefore hard too make mistakes.

The other boon too this change is that it could get promising you talents we hear about on the field, who otherwise have been benched due too lack of experience.

 

In one change your DT/DE rotation could become significantly deeper, and catch a 2 gap expectant Big 10 off guard.

 

But im just a rambling old fool i guess lol.

 

And welcome too the board.