So why is it so hard to believe God is.....

[JJ Husker]

Evil comes into play because the vast majority of all humans ever born on this planet had no exposure to your so called savior. No chance, no choice, no option. Just to burn. Put where they were by this being, knowing full well that they would never be exposed to the 'only' way not to be tortured for all eternity. That would qualify for evil and sadistic in my book.

 

I also find it incredibly ironic that many of the same people who can’t stand Christians spouting off Christ’s message are the very same ones who are concerned with the people in China and Africa who did not get a chance to hear Christ’s message.

 

But it is a great question. Something I’ve wondered about myself. I’m not sure anyone really knows the answer. (Although John 21:21-22 does shed *some* light.)

 

Personally, I fail to believe there is only one way. No way a loving God holds it against a person simply because they were not exposed to the message. And stig, where do you get some of this stuff, like these people will burn for eternity? God is not sadistic. There surely are some religions with some strange beliefs (heck all of them have some strange stuff that can't be accurate) but God is not completely explained by any of them. I have a simple belief that really isn't covered by any earthbound, human religion and that is that God will always do the right and just thing. I would also suggest you do a little research on hell. There is everlasting life with God or eternity without his presence. That does not necessarily translate to dantes inferno like existence. I strongly align with Christianity and Catholicism but I guess the main reason I don't stumble on some teachings and beliefs that I cannot justify is because I know in my heart that God will do the right thing regardless of what any person, book, or religion may claim.

[HuskerShark]

Either the being you worship is a sadistic monster who has billions of souls being tortured for all of eternity, or its a crock of crap. I chose option two.

 

I highly doubt those are the only two options, and I think it's a little funny how people call Christians "closed-minded" like you have numerous times and then come back with a closed-minded response such as the one you just posted.

And what would those options be? Your doctrine states that 'only through Christ' can someone escape hell. Period. There is no middle ground. Either your 'loving' god sentenced the majority of humans to eternal punishment, or your doctrine is wrong.

 

Religion by its nature is teaches an 'exclusive' thing to make a group feel both special, and when its useful, persecuted.

 

It's not like here on earth where people are discriminated against because of things beyond their control. The judgment you receive in Christianity is whether or not you believe in Jesus Christ your Savior. I don't see what is so malicious or "evil" about that. You sound ridiculous trying to pin a negative spin on it.

Evil comes into play because the vast majority of all humans ever born on this planet had no exposure to your so called savior. No chance, no choice, no option. Just to burn. Put where they were by this being, knowing full well that they would never be exposed to the 'only' way not to be tortured for all eternity. That would qualify for evil and sadistic in my book.

 

Maybe, maybe not. You don't know that. Nor do I. You are just speculating and putting a negative spin on things to use it as an argument against Christianity. Which is a closed-minded viewpoint.

[walksalone]

I believe in spirituality, I believe in myself, and I have a moral compass, but I don't need some dude who got nailed to a cross to save me, I can do that myself, just fine..

 

Actually... No..... No you can't.

 

Why not?

 

 

[strigori]

I don't see any difference between your mythology and that of the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians or the Vikings. More similarities in fact. Similar stories with slight twists that just get repeated by each successive mythology. That you seem completely unwilling or unable to even offer another possibility that you claim might exist is more close minded.

[strigori]

Evil comes into play because the vast majority of all humans ever born on this planet had no exposure to your so called savior. No chance, no choice, no option. Just to burn. Put where they were by this being, knowing full well that they would never be exposed to the 'only' way not to be tortured for all eternity. That would qualify for evil and sadistic in my book.

 

I also find it incredibly ironic that many of the same people who can't stand Christians spouting off Christ's message are the very same ones who are concerned with the people in China and Africa who did not get a chance to hear Christ's message.

 

But it is a great question. Something I've wondered about myself. I'm not sure anyone really knows the answer. (Although John 21:21-22 does shed *some* light.)

 

Personally, I fail to believe there is only one way. No way a loving God holds it against a person simply because they were not exposed to the message. And stig, where do you get some of this stuff, like these people will burn for eternity? God is not sadistic. There surely are some religions with some strange beliefs (heck all of them have some strange stuff that can't be accurate) but God is not completely explained by any of them. I have a simple belief that really isn't covered by any earthbound, human religion and that is that God will always do the right and just thing. I would also suggest you do a little research on hell. There is everlasting life with God or eternity without his presence. That does not necessarily translate to dantes inferno like existence. I strongly align with Christianity and Catholicism but I guess the main reason I don't stumble on some teachings and beliefs that I cannot justify is because I know in my heart that God will do the right thing regardless of what any person, book, or religion may claim.

I get it from the endless talk of beg forgiveness for being human and only one way can save you from Hell. Which was always depicted as 'everlasting suffering' Which translates to me as torture. I don't know how else you can translate that. To me it sounds like you don't fully adhere to the religions, taking the parts you like and rejecting the more hardline parts.

[strigori]

Evil comes into play because the vast majority of all humans ever born on this planet had no exposure to your so called savior. No chance, no choice, no option. Just to burn. Put where they were by this being, knowing full well that they would never be exposed to the 'only' way not to be tortured for all eternity. That would qualify for evil and sadistic in my book.

 

I also find it incredibly ironic that many of the same people who can’t stand Christians spouting off Christ’s message are the very same ones who are concerned with the people in China and Africa who did not get a chance to hear Christ’s message.

 

But it is a great question. Something I’ve wondered about myself. I’m not sure anyone really knows the answer. (Although John 21:21-22 does shed *some* light.)

It comes from being raised going to church and all the classes, and asking others the questions I asked myself. Often questions that people don't think about (after all China is a long way away and just a bunch of evil commies afterall right?) There was a time in my life I would have identified myself as a Christian. I know the circle jerk logic, and try to point out the holes and inconsistencies when I can,

[NUance]

Evil comes into play because the vast majority of all humans ever born on this planet had no exposure to your so called savior. No chance, no choice, no option. Just to burn. Put where they were by this being, knowing full well that they would never be exposed to the 'only' way not to be tortured for all eternity. That would qualify for evil and sadistic in my book.

 

I also find it incredibly ironic that many of the same people who can’t stand Christians spouting off Christ’s message are the very same ones who are concerned with the people in China and Africa who did not get a chance to hear Christ’s message.

 

But it is a great question. Something I’ve wondered about myself. I’m not sure anyone really knows the answer. (Although John 21:21-22 does shed *some* light.)

It comes from being raised going to church and all the classes, and asking others the questions I asked myself. Often questions that people don't think about (after all China is a long way away and just a bunch of evil commies afterall right?) There was a time in my life I would have identified myself as a Christian. I know the circle jerk logic, and try to point out the holes and inconsistencies when I can,

The thing I said before, in post #15, is true. The Holy Spirit actually does come to some people. Not all people (and I don't know why that is), but some people. I think that's one reason Christianity has such incredible staying power over the centuries.

[walksalone]

The thing I said before, in post #15, is true. The Holy Spirit actually does come to some people. Not all people (and I don't know why that is), but some people. I think that's one reason Christianity has such incredible staying power over the centuries.

 

Well, compared to Islam, it's a "softer sales pitch" and you don't have to strap a bomb to yourself if somebody from another religion pisses you off...

[NUance]

The thing I said before, in post #15, is true. The Holy Spirit actually does come to some people. Not all people (and I don't know why that is), but some people. I think that's one reason Christianity has such incredible staying power over the centuries.

 

Well, compared to Islam, it's a "softer sales pitch" and you don't have to strap a bomb to yourself if somebody from another religion pisses you off...

I'd like to learn more about Islam. It comes from Abraham (which you probably already knew), one of the early Jews in the Old Testament. I realize Islamic terrorists have pretty much given the whole religion a bad name. But I suspect Islam is about more than detonating bombs and gleaning virgins in paradise. From what little I know it's not that far off from Christianity.

[walksalone]

I'd like to learn more about Islam. It comes from Abraham (which you probably already knew), one of the early Jews in the Old Testament. I realize Islamic terrorists have pretty much given the whole religion a bad name. But I suspect Islam is about more than detonating bombs and gleaning virgins in paradise. From what little I know it's not that far off from Christianity.

 

Christianity and Islam are both equally scary...

[NUance]

I'd like to learn more about Islam. It comes from Abraham (which you probably already knew), one of the early Jews in the Old Testament. I realize Islamic terrorists have pretty much given the whole religion a bad name. But I suspect Islam is about more than detonating bombs and gleaning virgins in paradise. From what little I know it's not that far off from Christianity.

 

Christianity and Islam are both equally scary...

Ha ha! Maybe that's what attracts me. +1

 

 

 

/ actually, I think people should take it upon themselves to investigate whatever religions/philosophies make sense to them. Rather than simply following blindly in the footsteps of their parents (which is what most people do). Or taking the word of some minister/priest/clergyman who has a vested interest.

[walksalone]

actually, I think people should take it upon themselves to investigate whatever religions/philosophies make sense to them. Rather than simply following blindly in the footsteps of their parents (which is what most people do). Or taking the word of some minister/priest/clergyman who has a vested interest.

 

And this is why I came to the realization, that I didn't need to believe in anything, other than myself. I'm the only one who is going to limit my own goals and that to succeed, I'm not going to get that from a book, or a guy giving a sermon, or what have you.

[NUance]

actually, I think people should take it upon themselves to investigate whatever religions/philosophies make sense to them. Rather than simply following blindly in the footsteps of their parents (which is what most people do). Or taking the word of some minister/priest/clergyman who has a vested interest.

 

And this is why I came to the realization, that I didn't need to believe in anything, other than myself. I'm the only one who is going to limit my own goals and that to succeed, I'm not going to get that from a book, or a guy giving a sermon, or what have you.

Yeah, I'm of a like mind. I believe you should craft your own philosophy. I tend towards Christianity mostly because of an experience I had with the Holy Spirit when I was younger. Nonetheless, I like to investigate for myself other religions, philosophies, and the various flavors of Christianity. Right now I'm making plans to become better acquainted with some Amish folks up the road from where I live. Who better to learn religion from than Amish folks?

[walksalone]

actually, I think people should take it upon themselves to investigate whatever religions/philosophies make sense to them. Rather than simply following blindly in the footsteps of their parents (which is what most people do). Or taking the word of some minister/priest/clergyman who has a vested interest.

 

And this is why I came to the realization, that I didn't need to believe in anything, other than myself. I'm the only one who is going to limit my own goals and that to succeed, I'm not going to get that from a book, or a guy giving a sermon, or what have you.

Yeah, I'm of a like mind. I believe you should craft your own philosophy. I tend towards Christianity mostly because of an experience I had with the Holy Spirit when I was younger. Nonetheless, I like to investigate for myself other religions, philosophies, and the various flavors of Christianity. Right now I'm making plans to become better acquainted with some Amish folks up the road from where I live. Who better to learn religion from than Amish folks?

 

See that's not horrible, but it's when you get the "if you don't have jesus, then you're wrong" crowd, it makes it tough for the open minded to be taken seriously...

[walksalone]

I believe in spirituality, I believe in myself, and I have a moral compass, but I don't need some dude who got nailed to a cross to save me, I can do that myself, just fine..

 

Actually... No..... No you can't.

 

Why not?