Fake Easter

[Count 'Bility]

I also disagree with christians trying to force their beliefs on non-christians. Leave them be as I want to be left be. But, dont try to rile me up by questioning my beliefs.

 

I know that's all too much to ask out of society, but that is what I believe.

[Landlord]

I also disagree with christians trying to force their beliefs on non-christians. Leave them be as I want to be left be. But, dont try to rile me up by questioning my beliefs.

 

I know that's all too much to ask out of society, but that is what I believe.

 

 

 

Force, eh?

 

Who do you know that actually tries to force their beliefs on anyone besides the Westboro Baptists? Even they don't actually force anything.

[carlfense]

Who do you know that actually tries to force their beliefs on anyone besides the Westboro Baptists? Even they don't actually force anything.

How would you define force? I can think of some examples . . . but they're probably heavily dependent on how force is defined.

[Landlord]

Who do you know that actually tries to force their beliefs on anyone besides the Westboro Baptists? Even they don't actually force anything.

How would you define force? I can think of some examples . . . but they're probably heavily dependent on how force is defined.

 

 

I define it by the definition...

 

 

1.

To compel through pressure or necessity:

I forced myself to practice daily. He was forced to take a second job.

2.

a.

To gain by the use of force or coercion:

force a confession.

b.

To move or effect against resistance or inertia:

forced my foot into the shoe.

c.

To inflict or impose relentlessly:

He forced his ideas upon the group.

3.

a.

To put undue strain on:

She forced her voice despite being hoarse.

b.

To increase or accelerate (a pace, for example) to the maximum.

c.

To produce with effort and against one's will:

force a laugh in spite of pain.

d.

To use (language) with obvious lack of ease and naturalness.

[carlfense]

Who do you know that actually tries to force their beliefs on anyone besides the Westboro Baptists? Even they don't actually force anything.

How would you define force? I can think of some examples . . . but they're probably heavily dependent on how force is defined.

 

 

I define it by the definition...

 

 

1.

To compel through pressure or necessity:

I forced myself to practice daily. He was forced to take a second job.

2.

a.

To gain by the use of force or coercion:

force a confession.

b.

To move or effect against resistance or inertia:

forced my foot into the shoe.

c.

To inflict or impose relentlessly:

He forced his ideas upon the group.

3.

a.

To put undue strain on:

She forced her voice despite being hoarse.

b.

To increase or accelerate (a pace, for example) to the maximum.

c.

To produce with effort and against one's will:

force a laugh in spite of pain.

d.

To use (language) with obvious lack of ease and naturalness.

 

 

Here's an easy example: several US states prohibit atheists from holding public office.

 

(The cop-out would be to say that a person could just choose to not run for public office in those states. That's why I was trying to pin down a definition of "force.")

[strigori]

Who do you know that actually tries to force their beliefs on anyone besides the Westboro Baptists? Even they don't actually force anything.

How would you define force? I can think of some examples . . . but they're probably heavily dependent on how force is defined.

 

 

I define it by the definition...

 

 

1.

To compel through pressure or necessity:

I forced myself to practice daily. He was forced to take a second job.

2.

a.

To gain by the use of force or coercion:

force a confession.

b.

To move or effect against resistance or inertia:

forced my foot into the shoe.

c.

To inflict or impose relentlessly:

He forced his ideas upon the group.

3.

a.

To put undue strain on:

She forced her voice despite being hoarse.

b.

To increase or accelerate (a pace, for example) to the maximum.

c.

To produce with effort and against one's will:

force a laugh in spite of pain.

d.

To use (language) with obvious lack of ease and naturalness.

 

 

Passing laws that exist for no basis beyond enforcing the religious views would fall into coercion. Do it this way, or else jail or a fine. And Christians, just like other religions, are very prone to doing this. And while courts in recent years are striking more of these kind of things down, many are on the books.

[bennychico11]

In a time of severe Roman persecution, why were a group of men and women so convinced of the resurrection that they were willing to look the Roman government and, in turn, their death in the faces to defend what some would like to call a lie?

The same reason why so many weaker people stand up to the mighty all the time. We have examples all throughout history of people risking their lives for what they believe in. America was founded on that principal. A group of people have a belief they hold so strongly that they are willing to die for it. But those beliefs aren't always true just because someone fights to the death for them. Every religion has had people who believe things strongly and would in turn die for those beliefs. But we can't just assume that because a person strongly holds a belief, that that belief is in fact true. ESPECIALLY when we're talking about extraordinary claims. Should we also assume Scientology, Islamic, Hindu, etc. claims are all true just as well? We have to have a way to determine what is true and what isn't. Otherwise, you just go on believing everything you're told.

 

 

We are dealing with a group primarily composed of uneducated fishermen.

More of a reason for me NOT to believe their claims. We have groups of uneducated farmers who swear they were abducted by aliens...but I don't tend to believe them either.

 

The possibility of these men creating the greatest lie in all of human history is zero. However, some argue that it was a joke.

I'm not calling it a lie or a joke. Mythological stories evolve over time. These uneducated men probably did believe in this stuff. Just as much as the Romans believed in their own gods at the time too. I just think over the many years people wanted it to be true so much and loved the stories, fables, myths that they slowly grew into what Christianity is today. ALL religions have had a similar path. It's how my 6" blue gill I caught last spring became a 55lb Northern pike by the time winter rolled around.

 

 

And what about Matthew 27:52-53? Why is there no extra-biblical mention of the thousands of resurrected saints who also rose from the dead and walked right into town.

 

 

Now that you have my view, I know that people hold very different, very opposite views. Why? I'm not here to condemn or to judge right from wrong. I just want to see why someone would argue the opposite.

 

To me, it's just that I don't believe in magic. I've never had ANY reason to EVER believe people could rise from the dead, perform supernatural miracles, etc. I can't just accept something because it was written down thousands of years ago in a book. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Period. You believe it on faith...and I don't know why faith would ever be a good thing to believe something on.

[bennychico11]

500+ people saw the resurrected Jesus as eyewitnesses, as well.

The number of people witnessing an event doesn't equal evidence of truth. 500+ people see a tiger vanish on a stage in Las Vegas every night and then reappear elsewhere, but that doesn't mean the tiger literally teleported. At the most you could say those people saw something that would defy what we know to be natural. Then you investigate it. You don't jump to the conclusion "god did it!"

 

All the Jews and the Roman authorities had to do to stop this revolutionary (not in terms of other-throw of the government, but you get the idea if you understand the context of Israel at the time) movement was to produce a body. A body that was under guard by several soldiers around the clock.

 

 

Now it's a conspiracy theory?

All the US government needs to do is show us the body of Bin Laden!

All the US government needs to do is show us the documents of 9/11!

All Obama needs to do is show us his birth certificate...otherwise I'm just going to believe what I believe to be true!

 

That's not how you arrive at truth.

[Count 'Bility]

Who do you know that actually tries to force their beliefs on anyone besides the Westboro Baptists? Even they don't actually force anything.

How would you define force? I can think of some examples . . . but they're probably heavily dependent on how force is defined.

 

 

I define it by the definition...

 

 

1.

To compel through pressure or necessity:

I forced myself to practice daily. He was forced to take a second job.

2.

a.

To gain by the use of force or coercion:

force a confession.

b.

To move or effect against resistance or inertia:

forced my foot into the shoe.

c.

To inflict or impose relentlessly:

He forced his ideas upon the group.

3.

a.

To put undue strain on:

She forced her voice despite being hoarse.

b.

To increase or accelerate (a pace, for example) to the maximum.

c.

To produce with effort and against one's will:

force a laugh in spite of pain.

d.

To use (language) with obvious lack of ease and naturalness.

 

 

I'm not gonna get in a dictionary argument or technical discussion on the meaning of "force" as I used it. You know what I mean. We both have the common sense enough for that understanding.

[Landlord]

Who do you know that actually tries to force their beliefs on anyone besides the Westboro Baptists? Even they don't actually force anything.

How would you define force? I can think of some examples . . . but they're probably heavily dependent on how force is defined.

 

 

I define it by the definition...

 

 

1.

To compel through pressure or necessity:

I forced myself to practice daily. He was forced to take a second job.

2.

a.

To gain by the use of force or coercion:

force a confession.

b.

To move or effect against resistance or inertia:

forced my foot into the shoe.

c.

To inflict or impose relentlessly:

He forced his ideas upon the group.

 

3.

a.

To put undue strain on:

She forced her voice despite being hoarse.

b.

To increase or accelerate (a pace, for example) to the maximum.

c.

To produce with effort and against one's will:

force a laugh in spite of pain.

d.

To use (language) with obvious lack of ease and naturalness.

 

 

 

I'm not gonna get in a dictionary argument or technical discussion on the meaning of "force" as I used it. You know what I mean. We both have the common sense enough for that understanding.

 

 

I honestly have no clue what you mean. I don't know that I've ever seen a Christian individual force their beliefs on anyone, by any perceived definition of the word.

[ZRod]

I honestly have no clue what you mean. I don't know that I've ever seen a Christian individual force their beliefs on anyone, by any perceived definition of the word.

You want one from American history? Look up Indian boarding schools.

[Count 'Bility]

Who do you know that actually tries to force their beliefs on anyone besides the Westboro Baptists? Even they don't actually force anything.

How would you define force? I can think of some examples . . . but they're probably heavily dependent on how force is defined.

 

 

I define it by the definition...

 

 

1.

To compel through pressure or necessity:

I forced myself to practice daily. He was forced to take a second job.

2.

a.

To gain by the use of force or coercion:

force a confession.

b.

To move or effect against resistance or inertia:

forced my foot into the shoe.

c.

To inflict or impose relentlessly:

He forced his ideas upon the group.

 

 

 

3.

a.

To put undue strain on:

She forced her voice despite being hoarse.

b.

To increase or accelerate (a pace, for example) to the maximum.

c.

To produce with effort and against one's will:

force a laugh in spite of pain.

d.

To use (language) with obvious lack of ease and naturalness.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not gonna get in a dictionary argument or technical discussion on the meaning of "force" as I used it. You know what I mean. We both have the common sense enough for that understanding.

 

 

I honestly have no clue what you mean. I don't know that I've ever seen a Christian individual force their beliefs on anyone, by any perceived definition of the word.

I look at things like the abortion issue.

 

Personally, I think it's wrong. It is against my religious beliefs. Doesnt mean it's against everyone's. I will never partake in it because of said beliefs and morals. I also have the understanding that there are special cases for such act and that many other people have different beliefs and morals than I do. This is how the world is. Catholics are quite hard-pressed to have it abolished completely. I keep telling my wife that's probably not going to happen. Now, it's fine for folks within the catholic church to believe such and follow their "rules". It is fine for them to not take part in it. Wanting abortion ended throughout society as a whole is what I would qualify as trying to "force" (force may seem like to harsh a word, but I dont know how else to describe it) beliefs onto a group with differing beliefs. The abortion issue is kind of a vague topic beins it goes well beyond just the catholic church, but it's a generalized issue that I could easily describe.

 

But it goes both ways. Christians are also victims of such acts. Atheists all over this country are having success having things removed that are related to a church. I remember a few years back in Nevada? (I think), there were 3 large crosses on the side of a highway honoring 3 state troopers who had fallen on the job. There was a group of atheists then that fought to get the crosses taken down becuase they were a religious display on public land.

 

Again, I'm the "mind my own business, worry about myself" type. Let me be. Dont step on my beliefs and I wont step on yours. I just wish society-both sides of the coins-would take the same approach.

[Landlord]

I look at things like the abortion issue.

 

Personally, I think it's wrong. It is against my religious beliefs. Doesnt mean it's against everyone's. I will never partake in it because of said beliefs and morals. I also have the understanding that there are special cases for such act and that many other people have different beliefs and morals than I do. This is how the world is. Catholics are quite hard-pressed to have it abolished completely. I keep telling my wife that's probably not going to happen. Now, it's fine for folks within the catholic church to believe such and follow their "rules". It is fine for them to not take part in it. Wanting abortion ended throughout society as a whole is what I would qualify as trying to "force" (force may seem like to harsh a word, but I dont know how else to describe it) beliefs onto a group with differing beliefs. The abortion issue is kind of a vague topic beins it goes well beyond just the catholic church, but it's a generalized issue that I could easily describe.

 

But it goes both ways. Christians are also victims of such acts. Atheists all over this country are having success having things removed that are related to a church. I remember a few years back in Nevada? (I think), there were 3 large crosses on the side of a highway honoring 3 state troopers who had fallen on the job. There was a group of atheists then that fought to get the crosses taken down becuase they were a religious display on public land.

 

Again, I'm the "mind my own business, worry about myself" type. Let me be. Dont step on my beliefs and I wont step on yours. I just wish society-both sides of the coins-would take the same approach.

 

 

 

Don't you think abortion is kind of on it's own terms? I mean, the Christian belief is that it is literally murder, and thus, legal abortion is genocide.

 

You don't think it's a far more heinous act to sit by and let what you perceive to be genocide happen? "Oh sure, do whatever, just let us do us. Go ahead and kill babies."

[Count 'Bility]

I look at things like the abortion issue.

 

Personally, I think it's wrong. It is against my religious beliefs. Doesnt mean it's against everyone's. I will never partake in it because of said beliefs and morals. I also have the understanding that there are special cases for such act and that many other people have different beliefs and morals than I do. This is how the world is. Catholics are quite hard-pressed to have it abolished completely. I keep telling my wife that's probably not going to happen. Now, it's fine for folks within the catholic church to believe such and follow their "rules". It is fine for them to not take part in it. Wanting abortion ended throughout society as a whole is what I would qualify as trying to "force" (force may seem like to harsh a word, but I dont know how else to describe it) beliefs onto a group with differing beliefs. The abortion issue is kind of a vague topic beins it goes well beyond just the catholic church, but it's a generalized issue that I could easily describe.

 

But it goes both ways. Christians are also victims of such acts. Atheists all over this country are having success having things removed that are related to a church. I remember a few years back in Nevada? (I think), there were 3 large crosses on the side of a highway honoring 3 state troopers who had fallen on the job. There was a group of atheists then that fought to get the crosses taken down becuase they were a religious display on public land.

 

Again, I'm the "mind my own business, worry about myself" type. Let me be. Dont step on my beliefs and I wont step on yours. I just wish society-both sides of the coins-would take the same approach.

 

 

 

Don't you think abortion is kind of on it's own terms? I mean, the Christian belief is that it is literally murder, and thus, legal abortion is genocide.

 

You don't think it's a far more heinous act to sit by and let what you perceive to be genocide happen? "Oh sure, do whatever, just let us do us. Go ahead and kill babies."

Yes, you are correct. But, unfortunately, it is what it is. So yes, I'm not gonna stress myself over something I cant control. I hate abortion. I think it's wrong as hell. Be honest though. Is there really anything you or I can do about it?

 

That may have been a bad example. I dont know of another way to make my point, so I'm going to leave this discussion. This is why I try not to get to wrapped up in these threads, because I just dont know of the best ways to put my thoughts into words and my comments wind up being giant clusterfucks. Good day sir.

[sd'sker]

Don't you think abortion is kind of on it's own terms? I mean, the Christian belief is that it is literally murder, and thus, legal abortion is genocide.

 

You don't think it's a far more heinous act to sit by and let what you perceive to be genocide happen? "Oh sure, do whatever, just let us do us. Go ahead and kill babies."

Yes, you are correct. But, unfortunately, it is what it is. So yes, I'm not gonna stress myself over something I cant control. I hate abortion. I think it's wrong as hell. Be honest though. Is there really anything you or I can do about it?

 

That may have been a bad example. I dont know of another way to make my point, so I'm going to leave this discussion. This is why I try not to get to wrapped up in these threads, because I just dont know of the best ways to put my thoughts into words and my comments wind up being giant clusterfucks. Good day sir.

it was not a bad example. and i agree with you. landlord could use that justification for politicizing any religious belief.

 

you believe in the sanctity of marriage, so you cannot let gays marry. you believe in the sanctity of life, so you must oppose mercy killings. catholics are supposed to be 'stewards of the faith', which almost necessarily means 'forcing' your beliefs on others.

 

i agree with you, though, account. if some troopers who tragically lost their lives were christians, let them be remembered with crosses on the road. i, too, find abortion unfortunate and objectionable, but it is not my choice. i would not ask my wife to do it and fortunately i married someone who agrees.