Fake Easter

[Landlord]

I think the context of the life and times of Jesus is often lost. The events of his life were completely insignificant in the context of contemporary Rome; there were many unruly groups in Judea, and a multitude of cults and mystics that came went. It just so happened that Christianity came along at a time when all the territories under Roman control had more or less been folded into a cohesive unit, which enabled a modicum of stability, trade, and exchanging of ideas. The state sanctioned pagan religion was not very compelling for the average citizen that could look forward to a short, miserable existence...Christianity on the other hand offered a promise of much more.

 

What I'm getting at is it's pointless to be concerned with the details of religion. You either believe and follow the core tenets of what Jesus taught or don't...it doesn't really matter if he multiplied a basket of bread, walked on water, or was resurrected.

 

Whether or not Jesus resurrected is the thing that matters. Living a life of moralism is worthless if Jesus isn't raised from the dead.

 

This is just...a weird post. The events of his life were completely insignificant...which is some of the greatest evidence towards the validity of his message and character; because this insignificant man with insignificant events somehow became the most significant man and events in the history of the world.

 

Your statement about the pagan religion has merit, except that the first followers of Jesus were all Jews. Their religion was much more attractive, for a few reasons, including not being called blasphemers and being stoned/murdered. If there wasn't compelling evidence for the resurrection, the original followers, who were the catalyst for the spread to the rest of the Roman world, would have never converted. It wasn't an attractive thing to them, the first ones, the Jews. It was losing their lives to find them. It was picking up their crosses daily (possibly literally). It was selling all their possessions.

[Count 'Bility]

I look at things like the abortion issue.

 

Personally, I think it's wrong. It is against my religious beliefs. Doesnt mean it's against everyone's. I will never partake in it because of said beliefs and morals. I also have the understanding that there are special cases for such act and that many other people have different beliefs and morals than I do. This is how the world is. Catholics are quite hard-pressed to have it abolished completely. I keep telling my wife that's probably not going to happen. Now, it's fine for folks within the catholic church to believe such and follow their "rules". It is fine for them to not take part in it. Wanting abortion ended throughout society as a whole is what I would qualify as trying to "force" (force may seem like to harsh a word, but I dont know how else to describe it) beliefs onto a group with differing beliefs. The abortion issue is kind of a vague topic beins it goes well beyond just the catholic church, but it's a generalized issue that I could easily describe.

 

But it goes both ways. Christians are also victims of such acts. Atheists all over this country are having success having things removed that are related to a church. I remember a few years back in Nevada? (I think), there were 3 large crosses on the side of a highway honoring 3 state troopers who had fallen on the job. There was a group of atheists then that fought to get the crosses taken down becuase they were a religious display on public land.

 

Again, I'm the "mind my own business, worry about myself" type. Let me be. Dont step on my beliefs and I wont step on yours. I just wish society-both sides of the coins-would take the same approach.

 

 

 

Don't you think abortion is kind of on it's own terms? I mean, the Christian belief is that it is literally murder, and thus, legal abortion is genocide.

 

You don't think it's a far more heinous act to sit by and let what you perceive to be genocide happen? "Oh sure, do whatever, just let us do us. Go ahead and kill babies."

 

I personally consider myself lucky to live in a place where abortion is legal, because without it, my wife would likely have died several years ago from an ectopic pregnancy.

 

I understand abortions under circumstances like this, but in general, I don't give a rat's ass if some girl willingly goes and spreads her legs and winds up pregnant. Time to grow up and accept responsibility for your actions. I mean, there's only about 10 different alternatives out there for birth control.

 

A more controversial scenario would be if you got the triple test results back and found out your baby was going to have spina bifida or some genetic disorder. I don't know what I'd do for sure in that situation, but I don't think I could abort the baby even then. We didn't even get the test because I didn't want to have to make that decision.

My cousin had twins, one with spina bifida. They have lost track of the trips they have taken to kansas city. Little fellers are 2 now, and he has no use of his legs but drags himself around on his belly with his arms. One tough little sumbitch. Very proud of my cousin too. He didnt run away from the situation.

[carlfense]

Living a life of moralism is worthless if Jesus isn't raised from the dead.

Other than being able to sleep well at night?

[beanman]

I look at things like the abortion issue.

 

Personally, I think it's wrong. It is against my religious beliefs. Doesnt mean it's against everyone's. I will never partake in it because of said beliefs and morals. I also have the understanding that there are special cases for such act and that many other people have different beliefs and morals than I do. This is how the world is. Catholics are quite hard-pressed to have it abolished completely. I keep telling my wife that's probably not going to happen. Now, it's fine for folks within the catholic church to believe such and follow their "rules". It is fine for them to not take part in it. Wanting abortion ended throughout society as a whole is what I would qualify as trying to "force" (force may seem like to harsh a word, but I dont know how else to describe it) beliefs onto a group with differing beliefs. The abortion issue is kind of a vague topic beins it goes well beyond just the catholic church, but it's a generalized issue that I could easily describe.

 

But it goes both ways. Christians are also victims of such acts. Atheists all over this country are having success having things removed that are related to a church. I remember a few years back in Nevada? (I think), there were 3 large crosses on the side of a highway honoring 3 state troopers who had fallen on the job. There was a group of atheists then that fought to get the crosses taken down becuase they were a religious display on public land.

 

Again, I'm the "mind my own business, worry about myself" type. Let me be. Dont step on my beliefs and I wont step on yours. I just wish society-both sides of the coins-would take the same approach.

 

 

 

Don't you think abortion is kind of on it's own terms? I mean, the Christian belief is that it is literally murder, and thus, legal abortion is genocide.

 

You don't think it's a far more heinous act to sit by and let what you perceive to be genocide happen? "Oh sure, do whatever, just let us do us. Go ahead and kill babies."

 

I personally consider myself lucky to live in a place where abortion is legal, because without it, my wife would likely have died several years ago from an ectopic pregnancy.

 

I understand abortions under circumstances like this, but in general, I don't give a rat's ass if some girl willingly goes and spreads her legs and winds up pregnant. Time to grow up and accept responsibility for your actions. I mean, there's only about 10 different alternatives out there for birth control.

 

A more controversial scenario would be if you got the triple test results back and found out your baby was going to have spina bifida or some genetic disorder. I don't know what I'd do for sure in that situation, but I don't think I could abort the baby even then. We didn't even get the test because I didn't want to have to make that decision.

My cousin had twins, one with spina bifida. They have lost track of the trips they have taken to kansas city. Little fellers are 2 now, and he has no use of his legs but drags himself around on his belly with his arms. One tough little sumbitch. Very proud of my cousin too. He didnt run away from the situation.

 

Good for your cousin for being a great parent. That's gotta be tough to deal with.

[sd'sker]

Whether or not Jesus resurrected is the thing that matters. Living a life of moralism is worthless if Jesus isn't raised from the dead.

this is a depressing viewpoint.

[Landlord]

Whether or not Jesus resurrected is the thing that matters. Living a life of moralism is worthless if Jesus isn't raised from the dead.

this is a depressing viewpoint.

 

 

It's a sobering one.

 

The reason I say it is this. You guys, and a large part of our culture in general, views being a Christian as a win-win situation. But that's not what Jesus taught. He taught being willing to give up everything, to the point of your life, for the sake of following him. Krill said you either follow what he taught or you don't, and it doesn't matter if he performed miracles/resurrected, but that's a dichotomy. Because if you follow what he said properly, two things are true:

 

1. You believe he is who he says he is, and the reason you follow is because He promises LIFE.

2. You deny yourself to great, radical lengths.

 

Now if I am following Him and He hasn't resurrected, He is unable to provide me with life. So what good is it? What am I denying myself pleasure for? Maybe in America it's no big deal, but try telling that to Christians that are being tortured and murdered for being such that it doesn't matter whether or not Jesus resurrected. That is THE thing that matters, because that's what we place our hope in.

 

Paul says that if Christ isn't raised from the dead, we (Christians) are to be pitied more than all men. The reason he says it is because if we are following properly, and Jesus isn't God, we have wasted our lives.

[ZRod]

Whether or not Jesus resurrected is the thing that matters. Living a life of moralism is worthless if Jesus isn't raised from the dead.

this is a depressing viewpoint.

The first sentence is exactly what our priest started out with on Sunday. I probably should have payed closer attention to his defense of why the resurrection holds but he's way too boring and linear thinking for me.

[sd'sker]

Whether or not Jesus resurrected is the thing that matters. Living a life of moralism is worthless if Jesus isn't raised from the dead.

this is a depressing viewpoint.

 

 

It's a sobering one.

 

The reason I say it is this. You guys, and a large part of our culture in general, views being a Christian as a win-win situation. But that's not what Jesus taught. He taught being willing to give up everything, to the point of your life, for the sake of following him. Krill said you either follow what he taught or you don't, and it doesn't matter if he performed miracles/resurrected, but that's a dichotomy. Because if you follow what he said properly, two things are true:

 

1. You believe he is who he says he is, and the reason you follow is because He promises LIFE.

2. You deny yourself to great, radical lengths.

 

Now if I am following Him and He hasn't resurrected, He is unable to provide me with life. So what good is it? What am I denying myself pleasure for? Maybe in America it's no big deal, but try telling that to Christians that are being tortured and murdered for being such that it doesn't matter whether or not Jesus resurrected. That is THE thing that matters, because that's what we place our hope in.

 

Paul says that if Christ isn't raised from the dead, we (Christians) are to be pitied more than all men. The reason he says it is because if we are following properly, and Jesus isn't God, we have wasted our lives.

so you are only good to get to heaven? should not the good justify itself? would it not be better, then, to create your own value system and live by that, as it would have more meaning to you and life here on earth would be meaningful and worth living for what it is?

[Landlord]

so you are only good to get to heaven? should not the good justify itself? would it not be better, then, to create your own value system and live by that, as it would have more meaning to you and life here on earth would be meaningful and worth living for what it is?

 

 

No. I'm not good to anything; I'm good because of the regenerative power of the Holy Spirit.

 

Scripture's pretty clear we can't accomplish anything by being good, and as to you asking if I should make my own value system, still no. My value system is a reflection of God's character that I strive towards and am being constantly sanctified in. If Jesus didn't raise from the dead, then the Holy Spirit doesn't dwell in me and I'm striving in vain, wasting my "life" that isn't one at all because it was all put on a bad bet. However, because I believe Jesus is who He said He was, living in obedience and pursuit of Him is the definition of meaningful and worthwhile life, because He's the only way I have access to true life.

[TGHusker]

As a Christian, I agree wt Landlord - i think the most important decision we have to make is our decision on who we think Jesus Christ is and with that the resurrection. Jesus asks the disciples in Matthew 16 who do men say that I am. They came back with anwers such as teacher, prophet, etc. Not unlike what modern people would say - a good teacher, a good example, etc. Then Jesus asks them another question: "Who do you say that I am?" This is the real question - we have to individually answer. I think C.S. Lewis put it best - he is either a liar, a loonitic, or Lord. Josh McDowell expands on this in his book "More than a Carpenter". The resurrection is tied to Christ because so much of his teaching is tied to belief in the afterlife and His self identification as God coming to earth in the flesh.

 

While I agree that if we live the Christian life and the resurrection is false we would be miserable - douped into believing a falsehood that doesn't mean the Christian life in itself is a miserable thing. I sure don't want to go back to the old life I lived before faith - . Some on here talk about Christians who 'force themselves on others' - one can always think of the negative side of the coin. However, would one consider that a lot of the healing arts of medicene came from people of faith, that much of the what is now our modern university/educational system originated from people of faith (by the way, it wasn't just ignorant fishermen that followed Christ back in the day - Luke a medical doctor/historian, Paul (Saul of Tarus) would be considered a very educated person in his day, and many more), that most of the compassion ministry of helping the less fortunate originated from the church - people living out the words of Christ. Speaking of abortion, there are a lot of Christians opening up their homes to women who have no other places to go and who don't want an abortion, Chrisitan medical, humanity teams go throughtout the world doing good. Soup kitchens, rescuing sex traffic victims, ministry to aids patients, sponsoring children in poverty through organizations like Compassion International and many others, I could go on and on. John Lenon (RIP) wrote a song 'Imagine' Imagine no heaven if you can. etc. Well, imagine a world without the influence of Christ's teaching as lived out through his church and individual followers. Part of Christ's teaching was the resurrection. If he had that much good influence on people, perhaps he's worthy of enough respect for others to consider the rest of his teachings.

There are pleanty of resources out there, Any of the works by Josh McDowell - Evidence that Demands a Verdict 1 & 2; Lee Strobel "The Case for Christ" The Case for Easter - several other "Case for" books, Timothy Keller's book - The Reason for God, Another book: What's so Great about Christianity. These are just a few that I have read. There are people much smarter and articulate than I who can better address the subject matter. Including C.S Lewis:

nC.S. Lewis, once an atheist, wrote after his conversion, “I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”

[bennychico11]

TGHusker,

You are all over the place. I really can't respond to all of that without some sort of road map. You seem to be responding to several weeks worth of posts without quoting anyone, so I have no clue where to start. I will say, that I don't agree with you in saying that C.S. Lewis was an Atheist. I don't know why Christians insist on saying certain people were an atheist before conversion...as if that gives them credibility....but Lewis was an admitted "atheist" when he was 15 years old. And most of what is refuted as his reason for being atheist doesn't really make sense to me. At least, if a random person today said some of the similar statements he did....it wouldn't make me assume he was atheist (disbelieving in a god).

 

Well, imagine a world without the influence of Christ's teaching as lived out through his church and individual followers. Part of Christ's teaching was the resurrection. If he had that much good influence on people, perhaps he's worthy of enough respect for others to consider the rest of his teachings.

 

Is the number of people a person influences worthy enough of respect of that person? Hitler? Jim Jones? Just saying. There is "truth"...and there is truth. There has to be a way to determine between the two. And the number of good deeds a person does, does NOT determine whether or not what they say has TRUTH behind it.