Government Shutdown

[knapplc]

I'm liking what you're dishing out, lo country.

 

[VectorVictor]

One needs to only read all 4 pages and see what is wrong with this system. BOTH sides supporting their cause and refusing to acknowledge culpability in the other.

 

I am just as guilty as anyone.

 

The reality is Obamacare is law. Has been for several years now. Politicians and the public don't like it, there are other ways to remedy this. namely, let it go into effect and if some are correct, it is economically non-sustainable. It will collapse on its own merits. If it is as beneficial as some say, then a lot of folks will finally get insurance. Let the market decide its fate.

 

It irks me to no end that this budget date didn't sneak up on anyone. It is not like it changes every year. YET our elected officials decide, what seems like a few hours before it is required by law, to sit down and try to create a budget. You think its bad now, wait until the debt ceiling fight which is set to be raised Oct 17.

 

Lastly, politicians seem to have lost sight of the very thing they are to do, REPRESENT THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES. The reality is that right now, 100's of thousand federal employees (largest employer in the country) have now been laid off. Add to to that a like number of "essential" who are unsure if they will even receive back pay, but are still on the job. Nothing helps the economy like the biggest "company" going broke. Not to mention, we look like a laughing stock (IMO) to the rest of the world in that we can't even pass a budget.

 

Unsure how to fix it, but the bottom line is our current system seems broken to the point of "combat ineffective" (military term to describe inability to perform the job).

 

I agree with what you say, except for one point...and this goes along with what Knapplc was saying elsewhere...

 

Politicians haven't lost sight that they represent the people of the United States--in many cases, they've been able to jettison that 'burdensome' task through a combination of gerrymandering of districts, PACs, and wealthy corporate donors. Until something is done (likely outside of Congress) by the people to stabilize voting districts, limit the amount of money coming into campaigns, and force representatives to be accountable to all their constituents, it's only going to get worse and more polarized before it ever gets better.

[Junior]

One needs to only read all 4 pages and see what is wrong with this system. BOTH sides supporting their cause and refusing to acknowledge culpability in the other.

 

I am just as guilty as anyone.

 

The reality is Obamacare is law. Has been for several years now. Politicians and the public don't like it, there are other ways to remedy this. namely, let it go into effect and if some are correct, it is economically non-sustainable. It will collapse on its own merits. If it is as beneficial as some say, then a lot of folks will finally get insurance. Let the market decide its fate.

 

It irks me to no end that this budget date didn't sneak up on anyone. It is not like it changes every year. YET our elected officials decide, what seems like a few hours before it is required by law, to sit down and try to create a budget. You think its bad now, wait until the debt ceiling fight which is set to be raised Oct 17.

 

Lastly, politicians seem to have lost sight of the very thing they are to do, REPRESENT THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES. The reality is that right now, 100's of thousand federal employees (largest employer in the country) have now been laid off. Add to to that a like number of "essential" who are unsure if they will even receive back pay, but are still on the job. Nothing helps the economy like the biggest "company" going broke. Not to mention, we look like a laughing stock (IMO) to the rest of the world in that we can't even pass a budget.

 

Unsure how to fix it, but the bottom line is our current system seems broken to the point of "combat ineffective" (military term to describe inability to perform the job).

 

I agree with what you say, except for one point...and this goes along with what Knapplc was saying elsewhere...

 

Politicians haven't lost sight that they represent the people of the United States--in many cases, they've been able to jettison that 'burdensome' task through a combination of gerrymandering of districts, PACs, and wealthy corporate donors. Until something is done (likely outside of Congress) by the people to stabilize voting districts, limit the amount of money coming into campaigns, and force representatives to be accountable to all their constituents, it's only going to get worse and more polarized before it ever gets better.

 

Exactly, they've not lost sight of who they represent. We've lost sight of how we hold them accountable. There is a 10% approval rating of Congress and a 90% re-election rate. Why should they think they need to change when they keep getting elected? The gerrymandering of districts is a significant problem that has led to this.

[Junior]

Because people who legitimately dislike the dysfunctional, unrepresentative and corrupt two party system we have in America which includes "all politicians" don't exist? You have to be ignorant, a false moderate or a bitter party supporter? That's a load of crap.

 

 

Wrong. With a 90% re-election rate in Congress, people saying "all politicians suck" are pretty much full of it. We've allowed them to become this, hell, we've actually driven them to it. So yea, I think it's lazy and dishonest to say "all politicians suck". Especially in this specific situation that is being driven by one group.

[VectorVictor]

One needs to only read all 4 pages and see what is wrong with this system. BOTH sides supporting their cause and refusing to acknowledge culpability in the other.

 

I am just as guilty as anyone.

 

The reality is Obamacare is law. Has been for several years now. Politicians and the public don't like it, there are other ways to remedy this. namely, let it go into effect and if some are correct, it is economically non-sustainable. It will collapse on its own merits. If it is as beneficial as some say, then a lot of folks will finally get insurance. Let the market decide its fate.

 

It irks me to no end that this budget date didn't sneak up on anyone. It is not like it changes every year. YET our elected officials decide, what seems like a few hours before it is required by law, to sit down and try to create a budget. You think its bad now, wait until the debt ceiling fight which is set to be raised Oct 17.

 

Lastly, politicians seem to have lost sight of the very thing they are to do, REPRESENT THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES. The reality is that right now, 100's of thousand federal employees (largest employer in the country) have now been laid off. Add to to that a like number of "essential" who are unsure if they will even receive back pay, but are still on the job. Nothing helps the economy like the biggest "company" going broke. Not to mention, we look like a laughing stock (IMO) to the rest of the world in that we can't even pass a budget.

 

Unsure how to fix it, but the bottom line is our current system seems broken to the point of "combat ineffective" (military term to describe inability to perform the job).

 

I agree with what you say, except for one point...and this goes along with what Knapplc was saying elsewhere...

 

Politicians haven't lost sight that they represent the people of the United States--in many cases, they've been able to jettison that 'burdensome' task through a combination of gerrymandering of districts, PACs, and wealthy corporate donors. Until something is done (likely outside of Congress) by the people to stabilize voting districts, limit the amount of money coming into campaigns, and force representatives to be accountable to all their constituents, it's only going to get worse and more polarized before it ever gets better.

 

Exactly, they've not lost sight of who they represent. We've lost sight of how we hold them accountable. There is a 10% approval rating of Congress and a 90% re-election rate. Why should they think they need to change when they keep getting elected? The gerrymandering of districts is a significant problem that has led to this.

 

What's funny/sad is how this ties in with another issue people have with this certain fringe element of the GOP--Public Education. What you're talking about in bold is basic knowledge covered in Civics and Social Studies.

 

Problem is, Civics and Social Studies are being jettisoned because they're not part of standardized testing, and therefore are deemed inconsequential to funding purposes and are jettisoned. As a result, standardized testing is helping to create a dumbed-down, myopic, ineffective electorate, because they don't possess basic knowledge of how their government works or knowledge of why they should even give a f**k.

 

Of course, this isn't shocking, considering the Tea Party's newest sponsor...

 

 

Remember kids, it has electrolytes.

[Junior]

Both parties suck and every single one of them is to blame and if you're hardcore red or blue you're part of the problem as well. These people can't work together so we need A LOT of new people who can. I'm sick of their crybaby blame everyone else bull$hit and I don't care what their excuses are.

 

Just a reminder:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/on-cusp-of-shutdown-house-conservatives-excited-say-they-are-doing-the-right-thing/2013/09/28/2a5ab618-285e-11e3-97e6-2e07cad1b77e_story.html

 

“We’re very excited,” said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.). “It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.”

 

But both parties are to blame for the shutdown?

[HuskerLuke]

Wouldn't you say both sides have an equal capacity to make a stand if they want to?

 

Why is Obama the one without leverage in this scenario? Defaulting is unthinkable to everyone involved. As far as public backing goes, the Republicans didn't have the backing not to pass this law. They didn't and don't have the backing to overturn it. I can imagine a plausible situation where they have leverage if they can put a knife to the throat of something the Democrats care equally about, but that doesn't exactly describe something as universally necessary as the debt ceiling issue, does it?

 

Of course both sides will make a stand, there will be positioning, and eventually both will make a deal. I know the GOP isn't going to repeal the health care law altogether. Their strategy should be and is death by a thousand cuts. What I mean by public backing is popular sentiment in the country. Delaying the individual mandate of Obamacare leads keeping it in place, 56-26. That's what I mean by public backing: pick an unpopular part of the law and make Democrats repeal it or defend it. The Democrats may hold the line and make the Republicans blink and pass the debt ceiling increase, but they would do so at the cost of very publicly defending a part of the law that a large majority of people dislikes.

 

There's a reason this isn't a new strategy. It puts your opponents in a very difficult position.

[Junior]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/ted-cruz-blasted-by-angry-gop-colleagues-government-shutdown-97753.html?hp=t1_3

 

Ted Cruz faced a barrage of hostile questions Wednesday from angry GOP senators, who lashed the Texas tea party freshman for helping prompt a government shutdown crisis without a strategy to end it.

 

At a closed-door lunch meeting in the Senate’s Mansfield Room, Republican after Republican pressed Cruz to explain how he would propose to end the bitter budget impasse with Democrats, according to senators who attended the meeting. A defensive Cruz had no clear plan to force an end to the shutdown — or explain how he would defund Obamacare, as he has demanded all along, sources said.

...

“It was very evident to everyone in the room that Cruz doesn’t have a strategy – he never had a strategy, and could never answer a question about what the end-game was,” said one senator who attended the meeting. “I just wish the 35 House members that have bought the snake oil that was sold could witness what was witnessed today at lunch.”

 

[Junior]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/10/shutdown_leverage_forget_obamacare_republicans_are_using_the_shutdown_as.html

 

Three days into the federal shutdown, Republicans are beginning to admit that, contrary to everything they told us, they didn’t really close the government to stop Obamacare. They did it, and will keep doing it, to gain leverage in the coming fight over the debt ceiling. The government will stay shut for the next two weeks so that the GOP can accumulate power.

 

This isn’t Democratic spin. It’s what Republicans themselves are telling reporters, particularly the conservative media. Last night in the Washington Examiner, David Drucker reported:

House GOP leaders and most of their rank and file never supported conservatives' efforts to use the budget bill and the threat of a government shutdown to defund Obamacare … But having gone as far as they have, House Republicans now say they won't back down. And they expect to score political points in the process.

 

The real target, according to Drucker’s sources, is the deadline for raising the debt ceiling, which is two weeks away:

[House] Republicans said Wednesday that the spending impasse that shut down the government early Tuesday is less about conservatives' desire to derail Obamacare than it is about strengthening their hand in the debt-ceiling talks. … “We’re not going to be disrespected,” conservative Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind., added. “We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.”

 

[StPaulHusker]

What does it say about us when we complain about the job people are doing in Washington but yet the same people get re-elected term after term? The way I see it, the American public is as much to blame as the idiots on the hill.

[HuskerLuke]

What does it say about us when we complain about the job people are doing in Washington but yet the same people get re-elected term after term? The way I see it, the American public is as much to blame as the idiots on the hill.

 

God Bless America.

 

Although Americans overwhelmingly disapprove of the job Congress in general is doing, voters re-elect most members of Congress in every election. This phenomenon is partly explained by the finding that Americans have significantly more positive views of their own representative than they do of Congress overall.

[BigRedBuster]

What does it say about us when we complain about the job people are doing in Washington but yet the same people get re-elected term after term? The way I see it, the American public is as much to blame as the idiots on the hill.

 

 

Completely 100% agree. We complain about everyone else's representative there but....hey....my guy isn't the problem.

[StPaulHusker]

What does it say about us when we complain about the job people are doing in Washington but yet the same people get re-elected term after term? The way I see it, the American public is as much to blame as the idiots on the hill.

 

God Bless America.

 

Although Americans overwhelmingly disapprove of the job Congress in general is doing, voters re-elect most members of Congress in every election. This phenomenon is partly explained by the finding that Americans have significantly more positive views of their own representative than they do of Congress overall.

Proves my point. Cant see the forest from the trees.

[JJ Husker]

What the hell is going on here? We're in a politics forum and everyone for the last page of posts has been making sense and basically agreeing. Those ne'erdowells in Washington better look out if this keeps up.

[HuskerLuke]

What the hell is going on here? We're in a politics forum and everyone for the last page of posts has been making sense and basically agreeing. Those ne'erdowells in Washington better look out if this keeps up.

 

Obama's still a Muslim.