Persecution & Other Tragedies Not Talked About

[Landlord]

 

 

Not gonna lie, I'm expecting a couple of jokers to +1 Excel's post. But I'm also guessing the overwhelming majority will +1 ZRod's. Because nobody here is in favor of this, and nobody "doesn't care."

It's not really a matter of do you care or do you not care, but a matter of degrees. ZRod's answer seems pretty spot on to me, but also just confirms that we're all inconsistent, hypocritical and biased when it comes to what we really want to fight for.

 

 

How are "we" biased? What biases are we showing, and how are we showing them?

 

 

I don't even know. I'm not really sure how to put into words what I've got rattling around in my head, but something doesn't sit right with me when people want to claim to be on the correct high-road side of morality or have some kind of self-proclaimed passion for justice and then be really invested in or fighting for only things that are happening around them, or things that conveniently only affect their tribe, etc. while virtually ignoring so many other (and arguably far worse) injustices.

 

 

And the idea of a poll or +1's to represent caring about something or a lack thereof is stupid. People can and do say whatever they want, but talk is cheap. You act towards things you care about.

[Excel]

 

 

Everyone who thinks it's OK to persecute Christians, please +1 Excel's post HERE.

 

Everyone who thinks it is NOT OK to persecute Christians, please +1 ZRod's post HERE.

 

Not gonna lie, I'm expecting a couple of jokers to +1 Excel's post. But I'm also guessing the overwhelming majority will +1 ZRod's. Because nobody here is in favor of this, and nobody "doesn't care."

 

Ok no. I'm not saying it's ok to "persecute" Chrisitans but I just find this whole idea laughable. The few isolated incidents Landlord is citing are just that, isolated incidents and they're being blown way out of proportion. There is no world wide persecution and Christians have no idea what that's really like but broadly speaking they're pretty good at doing it to other people.

 

I don't view it as religious based persecution because of the context of each incident:

 

North Korea: Political issue more than it is religious.

Nigeria: Most valid case there is but Boko Haram is terrorizing plenty of Muslims as well...basically anyone who isn't them and the nation has seen anti-Muslim violence as well.

Iraq/Syria: Waaaay too complicated to paint this as a religious persecution issue. If anything I'd say that most of violence there is rooted in ethnic conflicts. Some groups are applying a thin religious veneer to it but just like in Nigeria they're "persecuting" plenty of Muslims as well.

 

 

Oh come on. It's laughable to list these countries and say it's not a religion issue. Of course it's about religion. It's not like the dictators, regimes and mobs in North Korea, Nigeria and Iraq/Syria are persecuting Christians because they hate the sound of Methodist hymns.

 

 

 

PS: So Bucky is in *favor* persecuting Christians? WHAT?? (/jk lol)

 

 

I don't know what to say.

[NUance]

I don't know what to say.

I'm going to write this date and time down.

[ZRod]

I don't think we're inconsistent, you could argue hypocritical I suppose. It has more to do with taking care of problems at home before you go out and fix the neighborhood. Plus most of these places where Christian persecution is happening are places that don't think too kindly of the US to begun with, because we've been meddling in their affairs before. So unless there are people or groups who want to risk their lives for change in these regions (which I'm sure there already are) all we can really do is politically denounce the actions.

[knapplc]

 

 

 

Everyone who thinks it's OK to persecute Christians, please +1 Excel's post HERE.

 

Everyone who thinks it is NOT OK to persecute Christians, please +1 ZRod's post HERE.

 

Not gonna lie, I'm expecting a couple of jokers to +1 Excel's post. But I'm also guessing the overwhelming majority will +1 ZRod's. Because nobody here is in favor of this, and nobody "doesn't care."

 

Ok no. I'm not saying it's ok to "persecute" Chrisitans but I just find this whole idea laughable. The few isolated incidents Landlord is citing are just that, isolated incidents and they're being blown way out of proportion. There is no world wide persecution and Christians have no idea what that's really like but broadly speaking they're pretty good at doing it to other people.

 

I don't view it as religious based persecution because of the context of each incident:

 

North Korea: Political issue more than it is religious.

Nigeria: Most valid case there is but Boko Haram is terrorizing plenty of Muslims as well...basically anyone who isn't them and the nation has seen anti-Muslim violence as well.

Iraq/Syria: Waaaay too complicated to paint this as a religious persecution issue. If anything I'd say that most of violence there is rooted in ethnic conflicts. Some groups are applying a thin religious veneer to it but just like in Nigeria they're "persecuting" plenty of Muslims as well.

 

 

Oh come on. It's laughable to list these countries and say it's not a religion issue. Of course it's about religion. It's not like the dictators, regimes and mobs in North Korea, Nigeria and Iraq/Syria are persecuting Christians because they hate the sound of Methodist hymns.

 

 

 

PS: So Bucky is in *favor* persecuting Christians? WHAT?? (/jk lol)

 

 

I don't know what to say.

 

You don't know what to say because you've never been over there and seen these things first-hand. You've only sat here in America and you've never been to the Middle East, or to Afghanistan, or anywhere else where these troubles may be happening. So how could you possibly know what's going on?

 

 

 

 

Oh.....

 

 

 

 

 

Wait......

 

 

 

 

[sd'sker]

I don't even know. I'm not really sure how to put into words what I've got rattling around in my head, but something doesn't sit right with me when people want to claim to be on the correct high-road side of morality or have some kind of self-proclaimed passion for justice and then be really invested in or fighting for only things that are happening around them, or things that conveniently only affect their tribe, etc. while virtually ignoring so many other (and arguably far worse) injustices.

says the guy who started a thread about persecution of his tribe.

[Excel]

 

 

 

 

Everyone who thinks it's OK to persecute Christians, please +1 Excel's post HERE.

 

Everyone who thinks it is NOT OK to persecute Christians, please +1 ZRod's post HERE.

 

Not gonna lie, I'm expecting a couple of jokers to +1 Excel's post. But I'm also guessing the overwhelming majority will +1 ZRod's. Because nobody here is in favor of this, and nobody "doesn't care."

 

Ok no. I'm not saying it's ok to "persecute" Chrisitans but I just find this whole idea laughable. The few isolated incidents Landlord is citing are just that, isolated incidents and they're being blown way out of proportion. There is no world wide persecution and Christians have no idea what that's really like but broadly speaking they're pretty good at doing it to other people.

 

I don't view it as religious based persecution because of the context of each incident:

 

North Korea: Political issue more than it is religious.

Nigeria: Most valid case there is but Boko Haram is terrorizing plenty of Muslims as well...basically anyone who isn't them and the nation has seen anti-Muslim violence as well.

Iraq/Syria: Waaaay too complicated to paint this as a religious persecution issue. If anything I'd say that most of violence there is rooted in ethnic conflicts. Some groups are applying a thin religious veneer to it but just like in Nigeria they're "persecuting" plenty of Muslims as well.

 

 

Oh come on. It's laughable to list these countries and say it's not a religion issue. Of course it's about religion. It's not like the dictators, regimes and mobs in North Korea, Nigeria and Iraq/Syria are persecuting Christians because they hate the sound of Methodist hymns.

 

 

 

PS: So Bucky is in *favor* persecuting Christians? WHAT?? (/jk lol)

 

 

I don't know what to say.

 

You don't know what to say because you've never been over there and seen these things first-hand. You've only sat here in America and you've never been to the Middle East, or to Afghanistan, or anywhere else where these troubles may be happening. So how could you possibly know what's going on?

 

 

 

 

Oh.....

 

 

 

 

 

Wait......

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol I don't want to play that card, it's lame when people pull it out. Let's slide it back into the deck.

 

[Landlord]

 

Everyone who thinks it's OK to persecute Christians, please +1 Excel's post HERE.

 

Everyone who thinks it is NOT OK to persecute Christians, please +1 ZRod's post HERE.

 

Not gonna lie, I'm expecting a couple of jokers to +1 Excel's post. But I'm also guessing the overwhelming majority will +1 ZRod's. Because nobody here is in favor of this, and nobody "doesn't care."

 

Ok no. I'm not saying it's ok to "persecute" Chrisitans but I just find this whole idea laughable. The few isolated incidents Landlord is citing are just that, isolated incidents and they're being blown way out of proportion. There is no world wide persecution and Christians have no idea what that's really like but broadly speaking they're pretty good at doing it to other people.

 

I don't view it as religious based persecution because of the context of each incident:

 

North Korea: Political issue more than it is religious.

Nigeria: Most valid case there is but Boko Haram is terrorizing plenty of Muslims as well...basically anyone who isn't them and the nation has seen anti-Muslim violence as well.

Iraq/Syria: Waaaay too complicated to paint this as a religious persecution issue. If anything I'd say that most of violence there is rooted in ethnic conflicts. Some groups are applying a thin religious veneer to it but just like in Nigeria they're "persecuting" plenty of Muslims as well.

 

 

 

So now it only counts if it is persecution based specifically on that self-identifying characteristic?

 

Does that mean that gays and women and minorities aren't really oppressed in America? You could make a pretty convincing argument that those are all primarily political issues.

 

The hyper-specific reason why people are being persecuted isn't really the point. The point is that a lot of people are dying unjustly. I made the thread about Christians across the world because it was one particular example that I'm more familiar with, and I even said it's one example of many. The point is that it is happening, and hardly anyone is talking about it or doing anything about it.

[Landlord]

 

I don't even know. I'm not really sure how to put into words what I've got rattling around in my head, but something doesn't sit right with me when people want to claim to be on the correct high-road side of morality or have some kind of self-proclaimed passion for justice and then be really invested in or fighting for only things that are happening around them, or things that conveniently only affect their tribe, etc. while virtually ignoring so many other (and arguably far worse) injustices.

says the guy who started a thread about persecution of his tribe.

 

 

 

 

I am not, before anyone starts making accusations, claiming to be persecuted personally. I'm also not claiming persecution by association. I'm also not using this to justify any conspiracy theories about how every non-christian human being is a hateful heathen.

 

 

Regardless, I am not claiming myself to be above the rest in regards to this. I'm just as inconsistent and only interested in myself and things that affect me as anyone else is.

[knapplc]

 

 

 

Not gonna lie, I'm expecting a couple of jokers to +1 Excel's post. But I'm also guessing the overwhelming majority will +1 ZRod's. Because nobody here is in favor of this, and nobody "doesn't care."

It's not really a matter of do you care or do you not care, but a matter of degrees. ZRod's answer seems pretty spot on to me, but also just confirms that we're all inconsistent, hypocritical and biased when it comes to what we really want to fight for.

 

 

How are "we" biased? What biases are we showing, and how are we showing them?

 

 

I don't even know. I'm not really sure how to put into words what I've got rattling around in my head, but something doesn't sit right with me when people want to claim to be on the correct high-road side of morality or have some kind of self-proclaimed passion for justice and then be really invested in or fighting for only things that are happening around them, or things that conveniently only affect their tribe, etc. while virtually ignoring so many other (and arguably far worse) injustices.

 

 

And the idea of a poll or +1's to represent caring about something or a lack thereof is stupid. People can and do say whatever they want, but talk is cheap. You act towards things you care about.

 

 

J-Man, we're sitting in front of computers on an internet message board. I'll agree with you that +1ing stuff as a poll is stupid (although it spreads +1s around, which is fun), but what are we supposed to do?

 

What do you do about this situation, this persecution that you're bringing up? How do you battle it, and how would you suggest we all battle it?

[sd'sker]

the idea of being upset with someone for not being concerned about the most egregious injustice is ludicrous. you can be a fighter for justice and only fight for animal rights or something. we are finite beings with limited resources (including time). odd to begrudge someone for your valuations of injustices.

[Excel]

Let's imagine we asked an observant Muslim which popular religion is the most persecuted these days, what would he say? I'd bet he'd say Islam:

 

- American military presence on the Arabian Peninsula

- Four Western (Christian) invasions of Muslim countries in the last two decades including three occupations one of which is ongoing

- Israeli occupation of Gaza and the Westbank/treatment of Palestinians

- Drone Strikes throughout Pakistan/Yemen

- Indian occupation/aims on Jammu and Kashmir

- Chinese campaigns against Xinjiang sepratism

- Russian campaigns against Chechnya

- Genocide of Muslims in the Balkans

- Western support for secular or moderate governments in the ME

- Anti-Muslim incidents in America and Europe - Quran burnings, Muhammad Cartoons, Bans on head coverings

- Anti-Muslim violence in Nigeria, Burma and other places

 

Not trying to make this a persecution olympics but I think it's a point worth making - that Chrisitanity is not, without debate, the most persecuted religion in the world.

 

I mean, can we dismiss many of things on that list as not actually being rooted in religion? Sure, just like we can with the Christian persecution list and while I do not feel that Muslims are being "persecuted" I find their list far more convincing than LL's.

 

I guess I'm trying to say it's all about perspective and understanding. We can dismiss their list because we think there are more compelling political or economic issues behind each item but when we get to the Christian list oh no every single one is clearly about religion. They hate us because apple pie, grandma, baseball and jesus.

[NUance]

This thread could probably use a bit of perspective. There were 8,000 Christians killed in 2013 due to persecution (according to the Reuters article in the OP). That's not a very big number in view of the 7 billion world population. Consider that there were 730 murders in Chicago in 2012, a city of just under 3 million people. So Christians were killed at a rate 230 times less than Chicagoans.

 

I'm not saying persecution of Christians is okay. I'm just saying it's not rampant.

[Landlord]

 

J-Man, we're sitting in front of computers on an internet message board. I'll agree with you that +1ing stuff as a poll is stupid (although it spreads +1s around, which is fun), but what are we supposed to do?

 

What do you do about this situation, this persecution that you're bringing up? How do you battle it, and how would you suggest we all battle it?

 

 

Talking about it is as good of a start as any. You can't tell me that silence is neutral, or that voices don't educate and help injustice. That's something that is so effortless but is so needed - it's a good return on investment.

 

Not saying that we all need to become overseas vigilantes or anything so drastic, but there are avenues open for giving money and resources and educating and protesting (not literally with picket signs although there's a place for that too) in ways that can make a difference. Do we care about our fellow man, across the board, or do we only care for some of them that are convenient to care about?

[Landlord]

Let's imagine we asked an observant Muslim which popular religion is the most persecuted these days, what would he say? I'd bet he'd say Islam:

 

 

Based on biased and anecdotal evidence. Not that Christians wouldn't say the same thing, but the ISHR is a self-described "secular" group that estimates 80% of religious discrimination is targetted towards Christians. I'm trying to track down the report, but even if their numbers are over-exaggerated, 80% towards one group? Idk man.

 

Regardless, still not the point.